Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I know it's not exactly what you're going for here, but I have no problem including Toronto on that list as well. I agree with you again ... The Myans are definitely onto something if this keeps up ... :P . I think any team that has won the cup, but has not won it since the Sabres came into existance, should be put back on the list ... I'm looking at you Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Am i crazy for thinking that putting Brodeur on the pedestal you guys are putting him on is crazy? He is not nor will he every be the champion that Roy or Dryden were, he was never as great a pure puck-stopper as Hasek. He racked up insane numbers because he played a ton of games because he never had to work very hard in terms of SA. The style in front of him makes him look better. He is no doubt one of the top 10 goalies of all time, but there will certainly be goalies in the future who are as good or better. He's not the Gordie Howe of Goaltenders. Why can't he be the Gordie Howe of goaltenders? Howe wasn't some unmatchable super hero, he was a legendary hockey player. Brodeur is also a legendary hockey player. Without a doubt he belongs in the conversation with the likes of Hasek, Roy, Dryden, or any other goalie who was of such monumental importance to his team's success. Brodeur has worked his tail off to be one of the best goalies in the league, and made a long career of it. Saying that the style of hockey NJ plays somehow made his job a lot easier so that he didn't have to be as talented, is just naive. There is no reason Brodeur and Howe shouldn't go in the same sentence, just like Hasek, Gretzky, Lemieux, LaFleur, Richard, etc. Legends of Hockey. Plain and simple. I would have just gone with - Yes, you're crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I agree with you again ... The Myans are definitely onto something if this keeps up ... :P . I think any team that has won the cup, but has not won it since the Sabres came into existance, should be put back on the list ... I'm looking at you Toronto. Shut up. There, is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/03/brodeur-roy-and-hasek-debate-rages-on.html I've linked this elsewhere on the site, but here it is again. Blah blah horrible blog title, but the content of his analysis is fantastic. And it isn't only a blog site about Brodeur...it's about quantifying goaltenders in general and has a lot of really interesting things. Not saying it will change anybody's mind about Brodeur, but I think it definitely provides some food for thought regarding his career. To make a football analogy, he reminds me of Emmitt Smith....undoubtedly an all-time great, but nobody will convince me he was a better runner than Barry Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Am i crazy for thinking that putting Brodeur on the pedestal you guys are putting him on is crazy? He is not nor will he every be the champion that Roy or Dryden were, he was never as great a pure puck-stopper as Hasek. He racked up insane numbers because he played a ton of games because he never had to work very hard in terms of SA. The style in front of him makes him look better. He is no doubt one of the top 10 goalies of all time, but there will certainly be goalies in the future who are as good or better. He's not the Gordie Howe of Goaltenders. Trying to downgrade Brodeur's accomplishments and using Ken Dryden as a comparison is asinine. Dryden is the epitome of being in the right place at the right time. If Cheevers or Parent wore a Canadians uniform during that time they would have just as many Cups if not more, IMO. I'll go as far as saying Chico Resch would have racked up Cups with those Canadians teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Dryden is the epitome of being in the right place at the right time. If Cheevers or Parent wore a Canadians uniform during that time they would have just as many Cups if not more, IMO. I'll go as far as saying Chico Resch would have racked up Cups with those Canadians teams. Cheevers? Really? Dryden was very good for a long time. I used to go to the Aud and everyone would ask if it was Dryden or Bunny LaRabbit in net. You always wanted Bunny LaRabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 NJ Devils need to tell the league today if they are giving up their first round pick or not this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Deadline now passed. NJD are keeping their 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Deadline now passed. NJD are keeping their 1st round pick. IMO they should have not had the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 NJ is probably hoping the new CBA will nullify the pick loss somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 NJ is probably hoping the new CBA will nullify the pick loss somehow. This was my thought too. When would they ever be worse than 29th? They have next draft and the one after that (June 2014) to choose from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Been hearing a lot about just get in and you can win it all. I think the kings are only the second team seeded 8 to win it all in the entire history of the N.H.L. I realize that doesn't translate well when you think of the original six days but obviously it takes more than just getting in. So Darcy, could you please set the bar just a little bit higher than 8th next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Been hearing a lot about just get in and you can win it all. I think the kings are only the second team seeded 8 to win it all in the entire history of the N.H.L. I realize that doesn't translate well when you think of the original six days but obviously it takes more than just getting in. So Darcy, could you please set the bar just a little bit higher than 8th next season. Completely agreed. Over the past year I was sick to death of people saying you had to have a guy exactly like Lucic to win a Cup, and I have a bad feeling that over the course of the next year I'm going to be beyond tired of hearing the "just get in!" refrain. Obviously getting in gives you a shot, but 1/50 (or whatever) isn't a very good shot...history tells us the 8 seed is the 8 seed for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Completely agreed. Over the past year I was sick to death of people saying you had to have a guy exactly like Lucic to win a Cup, and I have a bad feeling that over the course of the next year I'm going to be beyond tired of hearing the "just get in!" refrain. Obviously getting in gives you a shot, but 1/50 (or whatever) isn't a very good shot...history tells us the 8 seed is the 8 seed for a reason. Totally agree. What many fail to realize and I only do because I had Quick on my fantasy team, is that LA was not bad all year but they just did not score enough to win. Quick played exquisite hockey and I would be interested to see how many games he won in which his team only scored 1,or 2 goals. 99/100 the 8th seed is more like Washington and they may make it out of round 1 but round 2 will destroy them. LA had the star goalie and the requisite forward skill and depth to do what it did. Most 8th seed only have parts and peices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 And then there were 12... Buffalo Sabres Columbus Blue Jackets Florida Panthers Los Angeles Kings Minnesota Wild Nashville Predators Ottawa Senators Phoenix Coyotes San Jose Sharks St. Louis Blues Washington Capitals Vancouver Canucks Winnipeg Jets And now the Blues are the only remaining franchise that have been in the league longer than Buffalo / Vancity. This sucks. Hasn't Ottawa been in the league for some time with the old striped uniforms? I just remember seeing I believe a 1917-1918 tam jersey option in nhl 12? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hasn't Ottawa been in the league for some time with the old striped uniforms? I just remember seeing I believe a 1917-1918 tam jersey option in nhl 12? Just curious Ottawa used to have a team, and actually won several cups during its existence in the early 1900's, but the organization was disbanded. When they re entered the league they merely took the name, and is in fact a completely separate franchise from the original, although it does pay homage to the old organization through third jerseys and the name itself. It's much like the new winnipeg team, same name, different club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrix31 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Completely agreed. Over the past year I was sick to death of people saying you had to have a guy exactly like Lucic to win a Cup, and I have a bad feeling that over the course of the next year I'm going to be beyond tired of hearing the "just get in!" refrain. Obviously getting in gives you a shot, but 1/50 (or whatever) isn't a very good shot...history tells us the 8 seed is the 8 seed for a reason. Totally agree. What many fail to realize and I only do because I had Quick on my fantasy team, is that LA was not bad all year but they just did not score enough to win. Quick played exquisite hockey and I would be interested to see how many games he won in which his team only scored 1,or 2 goals. 99/100 the 8th seed is more like Washington and they may make it out of round 1 but round 2 will destroy them. LA had the star goalie and the requisite forward skill and depth to do what it did. Most 8th seed only have parts and peices. Been hearing a lot about just get in and you can win it all. I think the kings are only the second team seeded 8 to win it all in the entire history of the N.H.L. I realize that doesn't translate well when you think of the original six days but obviously it takes more than just getting in. So Darcy, could you please set the bar just a little bit higher than 8th next season. The bar most definitely will be higher, don't get me wrong and I think we'll be much better next year if health, luck, and progression cooperate. BUT, if we're in a position like we were in this year, it's still better to get in than to not get in. Kings were definitely better than a typical #8 seed. Just like the Capitals were pretty darn good too. Just like (I think) the Sabres would have been. Were we playing "typical #8 seed hockey" in the last couple months? I don't think so. Goal scoring was a problem for the Kings while Quick was generally fantastic all year. Then they got hot at the right time and the rest is history. Remarkable. Can't wait to see what additions we make to the club in the offseason. Long way to October, but time flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Why can't he be the Gordie Howe of goaltenders? Howe wasn't some unmatchable super hero, he was a legendary hockey player. Brodeur is also a legendary hockey player. Without a doubt he belongs in the conversation with the likes of Hasek, Roy, Dryden, or any other goalie who was of such monumental importance to his team's success. Brodeur has worked his tail off to be one of the best goalies in the league, and made a long career of it. Saying that the style of hockey NJ plays somehow made his job a lot easier so that he didn't have to be as talented, is just naive. There is no reason Brodeur and Howe shouldn't go in the same sentence, just like Hasek, Gretzky, Lemieux, LaFleur, Richard, etc. Legends of Hockey. Plain and simple. I would have just gone with - Yes, you're crazy. Trying to downgrade Brodeur's accomplishments and using Ken Dryden as a comparison is asinine. Dryden is the epitome of being in the right place at the right time. If Cheevers or Parent wore a Canadians uniform during that time they would have just as many Cups if not more, IMO. I'll go as far as saying Chico Resch would have racked up Cups with those Canadians teams. I just don't think he's a generational talent. Unless your willing to put Cal Ripken Jr. in the same sentance as Babe Ruth, Cy Young, and Hank Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I just don't think he's a generational talent. Unless your willing to put Cal Ripken Jr. in the same sentance as Babe Ruth, Cy Young, and Hank Aaron. Ripken Jr. was an amazing player for his generation, just as Babe, Cy Young, and Hank were theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I just don't think he's a generational talent. Unless your willing to put Cal Ripken Jr. in the same sentance as Babe Ruth, Cy Young, and Hank Aaron. I mean no offense, but I really am baffled by this. I think it's because as Sabres fans, and therefore Hasek fans, we think a goalie has to flail all over the place and make circus saves in order to be an unbelievable goaltender (it's the same reason why some people don't think Miller is as good as he is). Yes, Brodeur has had some good teams in front of him, but it's a team game, and good goalies make good defenses make good goalies make good.... He has the best stick ever. Whether it's playing the puck or pokechecking, it's not even close. He's been the starting goaltender in 5 SCFs,.. yes, I said 5 SCFs. He's won 3. I'll say it again,.. He's won 3 SCFs. I would love to have a goalie as pedestrian as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hasn't Ottawa been in the league for some time with the old striped uniforms? I just remember seeing I believe a 1917-1918 tam jersey option in nhl 12? Just curious The Vancouver millionaires won the cup an eon ago also. Thats a team name that would fit in nicely with todays athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ripken Jr. was an amazing player for his generation, just as Babe, Cy Young, and Hank were theirs. I mean no offense, but I really am baffled by this. I think it's because as Sabres fans, and therefore Hasek fans, we think a goalie has to flail all over the place and make circus saves in order to be an unbelievable goaltender (it's the same reason why some people don't think Miller is as good as he is). Yes, Brodeur has had some good teams in front of him, but it's a team game, and good goalies make good defenses make good goalies make good.... He has the best stick ever. Whether it's playing the puck or pokechecking, it's not even close. He's been the starting goaltender in 5 SCFs,.. yes, I said 5 SCFs. He's won 3. I'll say it again,.. He's won 3 SCFs. I would love to have a goalie as pedestrian as him. Now I would absolutely be crazy to argue that Marty was a "pedestrian" netminder. Just as it would be crazy to argue that CR jr. was an average shortstop. They are both Hall of Famers, but there are players added to the hall every year, not once in a generation. That's all I'm saying, is that he is one of the greatest, but he's no Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Wilt Chamberlain, Joe Montana, Jim Brown, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, once-every-20 years or so player. That's all, maybe I am crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Now I would absolutely be crazy to argue that Marty was a "pedestrian" netminder. Just as it would be crazy to argue that CR jr. was an average shortstop. They are both Hall of Famers, but there are players added to the hall every year, not once in a generation. That's all I'm saying, is that he is one of the greatest, but he's no Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordon, Wilt Chamberlain, Joe Montana, Jim Brown, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, once-every-20 years or so player. That's all, maybe I am crazy... Not to keep arguing, but if you make a seperate list with just Jordan and Gretzky on it, I can see Brodeur listed with those others. A little fun fact that I found interesting and completely depressing at the same time, since he started with the Devils, they have missed the playoffs only twice. oof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Not to keep arguing, but if you make a seperate list with just Jordan and Gretzky on it, I can see Brodeur listed with those others. A little fun fact that I found interesting and completely depressing at the same time, since he started with the Devils, they have missed the playoffs only twice. oof. you wouldn't put Orr, Cobb, Mantle, Brown, and Chamberlain on that same list? weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 you wouldn't put Orr, Cobb, Mantle, Brown, and Chamberlain on that same list? weird. I can't really speak to the baseball names because I just don't know (or care), but no, I wouldn't. Brown, maybe. Gretzky has his number retired by the entire league. That's a guy who needs a seperate list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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