Honeymoon in Hockey Hell officially over

[Robviously]

They need a true power forward to play on Vanek's line and they need a real center for the 3rd line. Absolutely.

Something I was thinking about: Has Vanek ever NOT been the biggest player on his line? Ever? We saw a teeny tiny glimpse of what Vanek could be with a power forward on his line when Adam was his center to start the season, and the results were great. (We could argue if Adam is even a power forward, but he was a big forward who went to the net so that Vanek had room to maneuver and that's what mattered.) It would be nice if the Sabres could do something about this.

[Taro T]

I agree with the stuff Weave said that you didn't bold. Regier has been the GM for 15 years and if you asked me to choose a few words to describe the teams he builds, I don't even know what I'd go with. Indifferent? Inconsistent? Fragile? Worse, I don't even know what type of team he wants to build. Since Black Sunday, I haven't been able to identify any plan to win the Stanley Cup. The team seemed to take a shift towards drafting bigger, tougher players in the 2009 draft but that was a one-time thing. The trade for Hodgson was the first time in years I thought we might be trying to build something. Of course, the trade deadline was still bizarre in that we had a half-assed fire sale: trading Gaustad (but no one else) for draft picks.

 

As for Ruff, I don't know if he's too harsh or not harsh enough or what. I don't think I could describe his "system" or tell you what I don't like about it. But I do know his teams have been soft both physically and mentally the last few years. You could blame the players but Ruff and Regier are tied at the hip so if he didn't have the right players, he would have communicated that to Regier and identified the players he wants/needs. His playoff record speaks for itself but I can't ignore how frustrating the last 5 years have been.

 

At this point I'm less optimistic than ever that the Ruff/Regier team is ever going to win the Stanley Cup.

Was that a 1 time thing?

 

In '08 they drafted Myers and Adam early on. Both are definitely big and I expect Myers will be tough enough. (He definitely isn't a Mike Wilson.)

 

In '07 they drafted Tropp.

 

Last year the plan was to trade up to land Couturier but the Carter deal yutzed that up.

 

It's too late for me to figure out how much size was in the rest of the '10 & '11 drafts. Catenacci is a midget but I don't know that the rest of them are.

[Weave]

Was that a 1 time thing?

 

In '08 they drafted Myers and Adam early on. Both are definitely big and I expect Myers will be tough enough. (He definitely isn't a Mike Wilson.)

 

In '07 they drafted Tropp.

 

Last year the plan was to trade up to land Couturier but the Carter deal yutzed that up.

 

It's too late for me to figure out how much size was in the rest of the '10 & '11 drafts. Catenacci is a midget but I don't know that the rest of them are.

 

In 2010 everyone of substance was in the 6' - 6' 1" neighborhood except Boychuck and Cedrick Henley, both big late rounders that are longshots.

 

As for 2011, Armia is a good sized kid at 6' 3", Catenacci is 5' 9", Colin Jacobs is 6' 1", Lepkowski is 6' 4", and Brad Navin is 6' 2".

 

I'd say that's more emphasis on size than we are used to.

[Taro T]

It sure seems like that is the case, doesn't it? But yet, here we are watching other teams play in April. This is why I stated a few posts ago that good arguments can be made that we aren't really any better than a year ago. We had one more goal against last season than the previous season and almost 30 fewer goals for. Yeah, it *SEEMS* that the defense is improved and that the forwards are better but we sure didn't get overall team performance that reflects it. We still had too much borderline NHL talent on the ice at forward. And we still got inconsistent performance from our highest profile defenseman, and too often the team went as Myers went.

 

I say that not to go negative, but rather to set up my counterpoint. I'm not sure the forwards are better than '10-11, but what I see as an improvement in the forward situation is, I see an obvious source for improvement in the offseason now. Last offseason I thought, man, where do we start? Going into this offseason we didn't have any more success from the forwards but I see a group that has smaller holes to fill. What was "where do we start?" is now, "OK let's get a winger for Thomas and another center". That is how I see the improvements right now.

 

As for the "D". I like our top 4. Our bottom two and the depth guys disappointed when injuries hit. They have to get better. Myers and Ehrhoff will get hurt playing all those minutes. It is inevitable.

When healthy the D is definitely better. I'd venture that even when not healthy it was better than in the previous year. I don't expect that 5 & 6 will be significantly better this coming year as they'll be some combination of Weber / Sulzer / McNabb / Brennan. Sulzer is what he is, and McNabb and Brennan will be rookies. Weber should be a bit better next year with some more experience under his belt. But I expect Weber, McNabb, and Brennan all making strides by the end of '13-'14 (well 2 of the 3 at any rate, probably wishful thinking to expect them all to come on so young).

 

But if Sulzer is back and can work with Ehrhoff as well as he did last year, when Ehrhoff's healthy there really will only be at worst 1 regularly shaky spot when all are healthy. I expect either Leopold or Sekera gone as part of the package to bring in the center.

 

As for the forwards, prior to late January they weren't better than last year's crew. LR finally found some lines that worked around the deadline and after it he got some to play significantly better than what last year's crew could do. We all agree there are still holes there, but the Sabres know they're there as well, and I expect them to be addressed.

 

If they do fill the 2 big holes we both see, it'll be refreshing to be able to say the Sabres need to get their 4th line better. Since '07, I've been reasonably happy with the 4th line; it was all the holes in the 1st 3 that were the issue.

 

Something I was thinking about: Has Vanek ever NOT been the biggest player on his line? Ever? We saw a teeny tiny glimpse of what Vanek could be with a power forward on his line when Adam was his center to start the season, and the results were great. (We could argue if Adam is even a power forward, but he was a big forward who went to the net so that Vanek had room to maneuver and that's what mattered.) It would be nice if the Sabres could do something about this.

Nope. The closest he came was he did used to have Stafford as his opposite wing. Though Stafford rarely plays to his size.

 

I'd definitely see Vanek setting up a little higher from the net and then going there after the puck is there rather than go to the front right away and play Rick Vaive's game. Hopefully they get him a power forward to play with so he can have a bit more room. Hodgson will find a way to get him the puck if he's his center again.

[TheChimp]

416 days. That's how long it took for Terry Pegula to go from savior to pariah. And you know Larry Quinn is having himself a belly laugh this morning.

 

Jerry Sunshine officially threw the mayor of Hockey Heaven under the NFTA bus with his column today. "We waited a whole year, Terry. Where's our cup?!"

 

Terry is learning the hard way that Buffalo is more like Hockey Hell than heaven. Years of self-pity and loathing have turned this fan base into pathetic trolls, turning on every player, coach, GM, and now owner. I'd be laughing if it weren't so sad.

 

This is your thanks, Mr. Pegula. No one who tries to do good in this town goes unpunished.

 

PTR

Cry me a river. This is nothing but good clean criticism from a fanatical fanbase and their self-appointed voice in the media. Every single hockey city's sports writers do it this way.

 

This. I would much rather have someone from this forum writing his column.

I accept!

 

A press conference would not make anyone feel better. No matter what Ruff, Regier or Pegula does, there always something they didn't do. That's how the blame game works.

 

As for what the fans deserve, that's another red herring. All fans who don't win it all feel shafted. What do Toronto fans deserve? Islander fans? Oiler fans? But in Buffalo self-pity is part of everything, not just sports. Self-pity put Jerry's kids through college.

 

PTR

You don't run and hide from the obligatory end of season presser. That's just amazingly arrogant and childish. I can't understand why anyone would defend it.

 

This is complete bullsh!t. Trust me.

 

Terry Pegula is learning you can't hydro-frack away all of the mistakes Status Quo have made over the years.

 

This is a owner who stepped in and was all too willing to celebrate this teams history. He hugged and cried over Sabres past. You can't put so much emphasis on this franchise's history than get away with ignoring 35% of it as an excuse to hang on to the Status Quo. .

Yup. It's called facing the music. Every GM does it. It's part of their job. To skip it is just plain bad business. It's not about "owing the fans" anything. It's about showing up to take your lumps. Simple. This regime is looking extremely weak right now.

[bunomatic]

Cry me a river. This is nothing but good clean criticism from a fanatical fanbase and their self-appointed voice in the media. Every single hockey city's sports writers do it this way.

 

I accept!

 

You don't run and hide from the obligatory end of season presser. That's just amazingly arrogant and childish. I can't understand why anyone would defend it.

 

Yup. It's called facing the music. Every GM does it. It's part of their job. To skip it is just plain bad business. It's not about "owing the fans" anything. It's about showing up to take your lumps. Simple. This regime is looking extremely weak right now.

 

On this topic you appear to be in the minority in your opinions but I agree with you 100 %. Man up and face the music.

[Kristian]

They can skip the end of season presser for all I care, as long as things change around here.

 

Either suck, tank for picks and blow it all up, or you go for the NE, and everything other than the 5th seed or better is considered a complete failure.

 

But please - NO MORE of this mediocre crap, fighting to squeak in at 8th with 5 games remaining, ending up at the most ridiculous spot in the conference.

 

Change!

 

Anyone watching the playoffs at the moment can tell exactly how far from success the current Sabres are - I sometimes forget the fact that other teams can make hard tape-to-tape passes than can actually be controlled by the receipient, at high speed too.

 

After watching the Sabres for so many years, I have gotten completely used to players having to reach for simple 12 foot passes, or dig them out of their skates, half the time.

[Marvelo]

Anyone watching the playoffs at the moment can tell exactly how far from success the current Sabres are - I sometimes forget the fact that other teams can make hard tape-to-tape passes than can actually be controlled by the receipient, at high speed too.

 

After watching the Sabres for so many years, I have gotten completely used to players having to reach for simple 12 foot passes, or dig them out of their skates, half the time.

 

Amen to that! For years, the only good passing I've seen from the Sabres have been on the winning streaks. It just makes me tear my hair out to see the horrible unskilled passes these idiots throw to each other. You think that these guys all have the yips, they get scared, they lose their cool. As a famous Russian coach once said: "A good pass comes from the heart."

 

Now I'm watching my LA Angels and am having deja vu. Big expensive offseason acquisitions, big buildup, all the fans are excited and now the team has no chemistry and the new and old parts tank together.

 

I don't care about reaching the playoffs in the last second of the season. I wished we woulda failed for Nail.

[Marvelo]

If his job is merely to stir the pot, TBN could get someone to do it more cheaply and more effectively by simply asking Drane or DeLuca for permission to reprint their posts.

Stir the pot is a cop-out. Jim Kelley stirred the pot just fine with facts, not venom.

The issue is not Sullivan's negativity, it is his weak research, weak analysis and his lack of anything fresh to say.

I expect more from a columnist and so should the News.

 

Buffalo isn't known for change. Whether it's nepotism, fear of change, lack of money or vision, you get the same crap year after year and you start to like it after awhile. You have Irv, Rick and Tom who stayed forever and you many others, including the sports writers and R&R who stay forever too. It gets predictable and beyond stale.

 

Sullivan is a failed baseball/football writer from New England. You could tell when football and baseball season rolls around, he'd rather be there. He must have somehow inherited his hockey writing job in Buffalo from some kind of exodus that included Jim Kelley and Larry Felser, who must be 93 and still writing. Sullivan has been in the hockey position so long that people actually think he's a hockey guy. He isn't. He's a bandwagon jumper and like so many other sports people who've been forced to comment on hockey, he's just loud and opinionated but uninformed with no inside information. Bucky is a supposed hockey writer but his sensationalistic style makes it hard to take seriously. It's been a long time since Buffalo had real hockey writers. Buffalo fans hunger for real meat and potatoes hockey writing and instead, we're wasting away on this diet of Ramen Noodles.

[North Buffalo]

Loving the discussion. I agree the Sullivan article is more a foil to stir the pot and yes it might be nice for LR and DR to say something at the end of the season and face some music. But they have been there and done that. I am not a big reader of Sullivan so I don't see the patterns others do on this board, but even so he was doing his job and the Sabres made a strategic decision not to respond which imo is fine.

 

I don't care so much about what the Sabres say at the end of another losing season and yes the injuries and the holes at center still there were the major reason why the Sabres lost. I also don't think Miller is the all world goalie he is made out to be, but he is much better than a lot of teams have and on his game with halfway decent D he is great. He isn't the dominator however.

 

Still think this is the time for DR and LR shut up and put up. At least they are starting in the right direction and then the jury is still out. Last year, short of getting Richards there was no way the Sabres fill the whole in the middle and that was't happening.

 

I don't claim to be sure what the best options are to fill the needs the Sabres have... trade draft choices to move up or package them for a top line center. I am not enamoured with many centers who might be available via trade unless their names are Crosby, Malking, Datysuk or some of the new young guns from Edmonton, but who knows.

 

My only point is if the Sabres can't figure out how to fill those needs. 2 Centers, one established, one young, another scorer forward preferably big and tough and goalie for the future I think then DR will have failed. He has options now with trade possibilities to either move up or straight up trade and the picks to put a package of something together.

 

The Sabres seem to have enough D in the system to carry them a while, I remain hopeful, but the jury as others have said is still out.

 

The Sullivan's article only serves to ramps up the heat on DR and LR to drive the point home, even if it was done in what I would term a formuliac mindless manner, that both DR and LR again need to put up. The presser angle, I take as just a dig at them and that they better be figuring this thing out because it should be their last chance.

 

P.S. Get rid of Roy, Boyes.... coach Leino up or dump him and ride Stafford like a Scottsman in a sheep herd.... wait I can't say that here. :w00t:

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

This is seriously one of the dumbest things anyone has ever written on this message board.

Really? Then you don't read this board much.

 

What I meant (and I'll try to use small words so I don't lose you) is that having won a title 20-30 years ago doesn't make being a bad team now any easier to take.

 

Talk to any Islander fan if they take any comfort in winning 4 straight cups as the current Isles wallow in despair? Heck winning a cup just a few years ago helps little in this what-have-you-done-lately world we live in.

 

The bottom line us fans treat anything short of a title a failure. Would making the playoffs and losing make us feel better? Last season proves no. Lose after 2? 3 rounds? It's still losing. While Bills fans look somewhat fondly at their Super Bowl run in the 90s now, back

then no one felt like celebrating.

 

PTR

[Robviously]

Really? Then you don't read this board much.

 

What I meant (and I'll try to use small words so I don't lose you) is that having won a title 20-30 years ago doesn't make being a bad team now any easier to take.

 

Talk to any Islander fan if they take any comfort in winning 4 straight cups as the current Isles wallow in despair? Heck winning a cup just a few years ago helps little in this what-have-you-done-lately world we live in.

 

The bottom line us fans treat anything short of a title a failure. Would making the playoffs and losing make us feel better? Last season proves no. Lose after 2? 3 rounds? It's still losing. While Bills fans look somewhat fondly at their Super Bowl run in the 90s now, back

then no one felt like celebrating.

 

PTR

Thank you for using small words to make your horrible point. Of course winning one championship would make a difference for fans -- because then we would have at least one perfect season to look back on. You really think Buffalo would have the same chip on its shoulder in 2012 if the Bills had won one of those Super Bowls?

 

In addition to the Bills and Sabres, I love the Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels. They spent their first 42 years being famous for choking in the playoffs and had zero championships. Then they did win the World Series in 2002. That was 10 years ago and my stress level watching them play has never been close to what it was before they had one championship banner. The Angels' playoff performances since then haven't been all that great (2004, 2007, and 2008 were embarrassing) and they've had some bad years (2003, 2006, 2010, 2011) and I assure you that ALL of that was easier to take knowing that they DID win one championship.

 

Sorry to burst your cynical bubble. I would feel better about the Sabres if they had won way back in 1975 (before I was born). I'd like to know the franchise has one perfect season and that they CAN win a championship.

[SwampD]

Really? Then you don't read this board much.

 

What I meant (and I'll try to use small words so I don't lose you) is that having won a title 20-30 years ago doesn't make being a bad team now any easier to take.

 

Talk to any Islander fan if they take any comfort in winning 4 straight cups as the current Isles wallow in despair? Heck winning a cup just a few years ago helps little in this what-have-you-done-lately world we live in.

 

The bottom line us fans treat anything short of a title a failure. Would making the playoffs and losing make us feel better? Last season proves no. Lose after 2? 3 rounds? It's still losing. While Bills fans look somewhat fondly at their Super Bowl run in the 90s now, back

then no one felt like celebrating.

 

PTR

Some people just love to complain, about some people who just love to complain.

 

I'm with Robviously. It would change a lot.

[PromoTheRobot]

Thank you for using small words to make your horrible point. Of course winning one championship would make a difference for fans -- because then we would have at least one perfect season to look back on. You really think Buffalo would have the same chip on its shoulder in 2012 if the Bills had won one of those Super Bowls?

 

In addition to the Bills and Sabres, I love the Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels. They spent their first 42 years being famous for choking in the playoffs and had zero championships. Then they did win the World Series in 2002. That was 10 years ago and my stress level watching them play has never been close to what it was before they had one championship banner. The Angels' playoff performances since then haven't been all that great (2004, 2007, and 2008 were embarrassing) and they've had some bad years (2003, 2006, 2010, 2011) and I assure you that ALL of that was easier to take knowing that they DID win one championship.

 

Sorry to burst your cynical bubble. I would feel better about the Sabres if they had won way back in 1975 (before I was born). I'd like to know the franchise has one perfect season and that they CAN win a championship.

Some people just love to complain, about some people who just love to complain.

 

I'm with Robviously. It would change a lot.

 

Then I have to disagree. It's not the nature of sports fans to care about what happened before. Hopefully one day the Sabres or Bills will win a title, and I will chuckle to myself when I see folks piss and moan about the incompetent players/coaches/owner/etc. a year or two later when we don't win it all.

 

Look at my OP (before it devolved into a player discussion). The city was blessed with probably the best team owner a fan could hope for. A little more than a year later the media and some fans are turning on him. Same as it ever was.

 

PTR

[Weave]

Then I have to disagree. It's not the nature of sports fans to care about what happened before. Hopefully one day the Sabres or Bills will win a title, and I will chuckle to myself when I see folks piss and moan about the incompetent players/coaches/owner/etc. a year or two later when we don't win it all.

 

Look at my OP (before it devolved into a player discussion). The city was blessed with probably the best team owner a fan could hope for. A little more than a year later the media and some fans are turning on him. Same as it ever was.

 

PTR

 

Oh phooey. The only folks turning on the new owner are a tiny handful of uber-cynics and some folks with a business interest in doing it. The rest of the community is still smitten with him.

 

PTR, the only person you can speak for is yourself. I think you are exposing alot here. ;)

[PromoTheRobot]

Oh phooey. The only folks turning on the new owner are a tiny handful of uber-cynics and some folks with a business interest in doing it. The rest of the community is still smitten with him.

 

PTR, the only person you can speak for is yourself. I think you are exposing alot here. ;)

 

I read SabreSpace enough to know what folks here think. I'm not far off.

 

PTR

[Weave]

I read SabreSpace enough to know what folks here think. I'm not far off.

 

PTR

 

Can you name more than two members here that are "turning on the new owner"? Hint- being unconvinced that keeping the GM and/or coach is the correct path =/= turning on the new owner.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know how long the mystique of winning a championship would last. But I do know I'd like to find out.

[Marvelo]

Then I have to disagree. It's not the nature of sports fans to care about what happened before. Hopefully one day the Sabres or Bills will win a title, and I will chuckle to myself when I see folks piss and moan about the incompetent players/coaches/owner/etc. a year or two later when we don't win it all. Look at my OP (before it devolved into a player discussion). The city was blessed with probably the best team owner a fan could hope for. A little more than a year later the media and some fans are turning on him. Same as it ever was. PTR

 

I'm an Angels fan too and believe me even just one championship takes the sting out of many losing years. Reminds me of "The King of Comedy" with Robert DeNiro..."Better to be king for a night than schmuck for a lifetime."

 

[calti]

Oh phooey. The only folks turning on the new owner are a tiny handful of uber-cynics and some folks with a business interest in doing it. The rest of the community is still smitten with him.

 

PTR, the only person you can speak for is yourself. I think you are exposing alot here. ;)

 

Is a cyber unic any relation to an uber cynic?

[deluca67]

Some people just love to complain, about some people who just love to complain.

 

I'm with Robviously. It would change a lot.

The only proof you need is how different things were right after the lockout. The tone was much more positive and much of the conversation was constructed around individual players. You can't expect that positive vibe to survive July 1st, no playoff series wins and 3 non-playoffs seasons. That is why we are where we are now. It's not just this board, the Buffalo news and WGR. The tone amongst fellow fans I talk to ay work or with friends is very negative and it is caused by fans being tired of the Status Quo. Fans want real changes, until they are made the tone will continue to sour.

[millbank]

Cry me a river. This is nothing but good clean criticism from a fanatical fanbase and their self-appointed voice in the media. Every single hockey city's sports writers do it this way.

 

I accept!

 

You don't run and hide from the obligatory end of season presser. That's just amazingly arrogant and childish. I can't understand why anyone would defend it.

 

Yup. It's called facing the music. Every GM does it. It's part of their job. To skip it is just plain bad business. It's not about "owing the fans" anything. It's about showing up to take your lumps. Simple. This regime is looking extremely weak right now.

 

Good for you, I agree with this... not sure organization looks weak, thin skinned yes, absolutely disrespectful of media. All well and wonderful for Sabre boosters to go along with the vilification of local media as not worthy , I read so many on this site on side with Sullivan and Bucky bash. At that these two just represent one single newspaper and their website. Its right that Black at some point very soon address the issues and feelings of organization to this time of both the past year and their feelings going forward. A far as questions he may feel inappropriate or not worthy he would have every right and should simply not dignify such questions with a answer. It much like at the past Masters, where Official at news conference keep being badgered on the female membership issue, keep restating the Clubs stand and moved forward to next question. As he in end had to let his comments or lack of comments stand for themselves so it should be with Black and the Sabres. In my opinion, (in am a peripheral fan, don't pretend to be as avid as most) were and are wrong on this...

I think most reasonable folk very much appreciative of new owner he giving this team long needed stability at ownership level. But it needless to say this past season was a disappointment. Such goes right on the list of "rain is wet". Mind you some will tell me its raining when actually they are peeing on me...

[Kristian]

The only proof you need is how different things were right after the lockout. The tone was much more positive and much of the conversation was constructed around individual players. You can't expect that positive vibe to survive July 1st, no playoff series wins and 3 non-playoffs seasons. That is why we are where we are now. It's not just this board, the Buffalo news and WGR. The tone amongst fellow fans I talk to ay work or with friends is very negative and it is caused by fans being tired of the Status Quo. Fans want real changes, until they are made the tone will continue to sour.

 

Fact is, I couldn't care less if Jesus himself owned the Sabres at this point.

 

I'm just tired of a franchise that expects me to be happy about mediocrity at best.

 

Like I said, watching the playoffs at the moment illustrates for me just how far the Sabres have to travel before they can be expected to win a round.

 

Forget about toughness, learn to hit a teammate's stick with the puck first.

[That Aud Smell]

Its right that Black at some point very soon address the issues and feelings of organization to this time of both the past year and their feelings going forward.

 

i think that he did when he went on the team's flagship station and fielded questions via phone, email, and text (smoke signal?) for an hour of radio time. not the dog and pony show that some may have wanted, but it was a pretty substantial Q&A session.

 

But it needless to say this past season was a disappointment. Such goes right on the list of "rain is wet". Mind you some will tell me its raining when actually they are peeing on me...

 

:lol:

[Jerry Jabber]

We know now that Terry Pegula is not Dan Snyder, so people are going to have to deal with it.