carpandean Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 My post was directly related to the first underlined and bolded part. IMO, with DR doing his job as GM as outlined by TB ... NOTHING has changed, fundamentally to the underlying system, or otherwise. Since, my post has a +2 rating it is obvious that at least two members of the board agree with my take. For the record, I have little to no faith in DR. However, ownership changes the constraints and mandates on the GM (for example, do whatever it takes to squeeze into a playoff spot, because we need the revenue), then the GM manages within those. Again, that doesn't mean that DR will get it done, but rather that we can't simply assume that the past represents the future. Maybe Darcy behaves differently when the orders from above are "we don't have to push for a slim chance at the playoffs if the best move long-term is to sell off and revamp." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just under $3mil a year a year for one of the best faceoff guys in the league, thats not a horrible deal. Its isn't a 5 year $5mil deal, or whatever then gave Leino Better, but still not a great deal. Gausted isn't our problem, contractually imho. I still say Stafford and Roy could fetch a price, certainly somewhere like Los Angeles. Those guys don't even seem to have worked out the basics of goal scoring this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I do, however, remember waking up one morning after the deadline and have over a page of transactions on NHL.com to read. Everything tends to happen at the last minute in sports, like people assume it's a ###### auction. Only the most average deals get done before hand. Like Gratton Briere (had to get that in there!). There was some talk about the previous deals over the last few seasons by Burke in Toronto. Thats when he makes his bigger deals, usualy the week before the deadline because the deadline day is always like a grocery store with 20 carts lined up for 2 registers. He said speaking to Nonis that this year seems different, nothing much is getting done early and he thinks that most deals will get done the day of, last minute. I have a feeling this is going to be a very disapointing deadline day. In the East there are too many "fringe" teams that still have chances and may not be interested in selling. Also, the few teams selling are asking inflated prices for their best stuff cause the supply is very low. The only real sellers seem to be teams that have decided to blow everything up and start over in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 We can't question Ruff. We can't question Darcy. We can't question Black. We can't question Pegula. I guess all the moves they've made have been the right ones and we should just sit back and wait for the Cup. ...makes for a pretty boring board, though... The point wasn't that what you said was invalid, more directing it at LTS is kind of illogical as his probably one of the most balanced posters here. I dont think there's ever a question that they've all made mistakes and it's a shitcan of a season, more so what moves to make, how to approach the issue at hand (namely, stop being crap). There was some talk about the previous deals over the last few seasons by Burke in Toronto. Thats when he makes his bigger deals, usualy the week before the deadline because the deadline day is always like a grocery store with 20 carts lined up for 2 registers. He said speaking to Nonis that this year seems different, nothing much is getting done early and he thinks that most deals will get done the day of, last minute. I have a feeling this is going to be a very disapointing deadline day. In the East there are too many "fringe" teams that still have chances and may not be interested in selling. Also, the few teams selling are asking inflated prices for their best stuff cause the supply is very low. The only real sellers seem to be teams that have decided to blow everything up and start over in the draft Completely agree, this year, if any, we'll see nothing from a few camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Better, but still not a great deal. Gausted isn't our problem, contractually imho. I still say Stafford and Roy could fetch a price, certainly somewhere like Los Angeles. Those guys don't even seem to have worked out the basics of goal scoring this season. I would rather see goose stay and sign a new deal, only being moved if he is gonna test the FA market this summer. Otherwise, he is a good 3rd/great 4th line center who is one of the better faceoff guys in the league. Sign him for under or around $3mil a year and its a good deal. As for Stafford and Roy, both have worn out their welcome with fans and both have shown enough that they have the potential, but may need a change of scenery to reach it. Both can bring in some kind of return, Roy probably getting the best return. I also believe that removing the 2 of them wouldn't impact the current Sabres roster enough that they still couldn't finish out the season strong and possibly get into the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Personally i think Darcy and company will wait to see how the Boston game and Rangers game goes this weekend before they decide which way they want to go. Undoubtedly 1 of these two teams would be our first round opponent and we could conceivably be 9 points back by Sunday... Until then I think we wait. I would rather see goose stay and sign a new deal, only being moved if he is gonna test the FA market this summer. Otherwise, he is a good 3rd/great 4th line center who is one of the better faceoff guys in the league. Sign him for under or around $3mil a year and its a good deal. As for Stafford and Roy, both have worn out their welcome with fans and both have shown enough that they have the potential, but may need a change of scenery to reach it. Both can bring in some kind of return, Roy probably getting the best return. I also believe that removing the 2 of them wouldn't impact the current Sabres roster enough that they still couldn't finish out the season strong and possibly get into the playoffs If we don't dump anyone else we really can not afford to give him a raise for what he brings to the table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kishoph Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 If they sign Goose to a new contract, I'll be pissed, not because I don't want him on the team, but because from the way it sounds, he wants to continue to play for the Sabres, so why not trade him and get a pick or two then resign him come July. The way Black sounded today, you'd think that there would be moves made, but if nothing is done I wouldn't be shocked at all. As long as Darcy and Lindy are here, I'll never expect the Sabres to win a Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just under $3mil a year a year for one of the best faceoff guys in the league, thats not a horrible deal. Its isn't a 5 year $5mil deal, or whatever then gave Leino I hate this face off thing more than any one. yes getting the puck is important, but so is every other stat. There are peope here that argue the importance of a plus minus stat. This one actually involves goals scored. Being the best faceoff man in the league means you win a few more out of 100 than an average player. So what. He is on a checking line. Its not like those draws are regularly turning into goals. Gaustad is not Brind Amour. Gaustad seems to get thrown out 1 out of every three or four. If you like the guy because he is big, generally plays hard, and is a good penalty killer fine. How can you justify paying a prototypical third-fourth liner 3 million, becase he can win 55% of his draws? Do people realize that the stat is not like shooting percentage? The average is 50% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 The point wasn't that what you said was invalid, more directing it at LTS is kind of illogical as his probably one of the most balanced posters here. I dont think there's ever a question that they've all made mistakes and it's a shitcan of a season, more so what moves to make, how to approach the issue at hand (namely, stop being crap). It's exactly those balenced, nothing bothers me posters that I was aiming that at. How many discusions have there been in the past 4-5 years on this board about what our expectations for a season would be - what would be accepable for LR/DR to stay? Every year those expectations aren't met and we get nothing but a new set of excuses from them, from posters and from the FO. We are then told to just wait, things'll change, it'll be different next year,.... and nothing changes. Hopefully someday, it will be time to be angry. I really thought it was the 14th year. I guess I'm just too impatient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would not assume the bolded part at all. As more teams make trades the market for your players shrinks. As mentioned several times in recent days, how many teams with 2nd round picks in 2012 are left? Absolutely correct! :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 For the record, I have little to no faith in DR. However, ownership changes the constraints and mandates on the GM (for example, do whatever it takes to squeeze into a playoff spot, because we need the revenue), then the GM manages within those. Again, that doesn't mean that DR will get it done, but rather that we can't simply assume that the past represents the future. Maybe Darcy behaves differently when the orders from above are "we don't have to push for a slim chance at the playoffs if the best move long-term is to sell off and revamp." I hope you are right and I am wrong. Time will tell, but I stand by my feelings on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just under $3mil a year a year for one of the best faceoff guys in the league, thats not a horrible deal. Its isn't a 5 year $5mil deal, or whatever then gave Leino You can find a good faceoff guy for your 4th line for a lot less than 3 mil a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 How can you justify paying a prototypical third-fourth liner 3 million, becase he can win 55% of his draws? Do people realize that the stat is not like shooting percentage? The average is 50% If there were a "strength of competition" adjusted faceoff stat, I think you'd be far more impressed. He's always out in key situations and usually going against the other team's best faceoff guy. Being around 60% against the best is more than just being a little above average. I hope you are right and I am wrong. Time will tell, but I stand by my feelings on the matter. It's not so much a case of who's right. I would bet that you're right, but I know that I am. :flirt: Something changed, which begs to question the value of historical information, but not everything has changed, so that information is not without value. I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm simply allowing for the possibility that you are, even if I believe you are right. I am glad, however, that TB pointed out that the mandates are what they should be, or at least not necessarily what they shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Black also addressed a caller who essentially made this point (referring to the 14+ years of Darcy's legacy that fans are going off of) and (paraphrasing) said that Pegula/Black's experience with Darcy has only been this past year and thus that is the period by which they're judging his performance. To me, that is lawyer-speak for "we've given Darcy enough rope; let's see if he uses it to round up a good team OR hang himself". I doubt that either Black or Pegula are naive enough to think that Darcy unshackled is miles better than Darcy under Rigas/Golisano (but I could be wrong). From what we saw in the off-season, Black and Pegula went after Regehr and Erhoff; Darcy just carried the contracts in his briefcase. I think both Black and Pegula will (eventually) join me in being highly doubtful that Darcy will ever be a real NHL GM. Ted Black said on WGR this morning (and I'm paraphrasing) "the good news is that, unlike other teams, we are not under any financial mandate to make the playoffs to hit some bottom line. That pressure sometimes forces teams to try to hard to just squeak into the playoffs. We can focus on the long-term goal of winning the Cup." Sounds like the organization is at least open to, if not set on, a seller strategy. Of course, he also said that Darcy does his job, "the manager manages," so who knows what will happen. I don't remember if Pegula or Black actually said it or it was inferred, but wasn't the "time to Stanley Cup" defined as within 3 years? Now Black is calling it a "long-term goal"? Heck, that's the long-term goal of any NHL team. I don't think any of us really thought that a Cup could be had this season, but the team should have at least shown some signs of improvement. I can't honestly say that I think this team is any closer to a championship than it was last season, and it is probably further away. Is that "time-to-Cup" now changed to 5 seasons? 7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 There was some talk about the previous deals over the last few seasons by Burke in Toronto. Thats when he makes his bigger deals, usualy the week before the deadline because the deadline day is always like a grocery store with 20 carts lined up for 2 registers. He said speaking to Nonis that this year seems different, nothing much is getting done early and he thinks that most deals will get done the day of, last minute. I have a feeling this is going to be a very disapointing deadline day. In the East there are too many "fringe" teams that still have chances and may not be interested in selling. Also, the few teams selling are asking inflated prices for their best stuff cause the supply is very low. The only real sellers seem to be teams that have decided to blow everything up and start over in the draft The deadline day is always disappointing now. Like you said, too many teams are still in the hunt. The money issues also make it so difficult. The cap implications weigh down almost every deal now. It's easy to move the Pat Kaletas and Matt Ellis' of the league, but way too much goes into the move of an elite player like Rick Nash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 The deadline day is always disappointing now. Like you said, too many teams are still in the hunt. The money issues also make it so difficult. The cap implications weigh down almost every deal now. It's easy to move the Pat Kaletas and Matt Ellis' of the league, but way too much goes into the move of an elite player like Rick Nash. they are always disapointing when your a sabres fan and regier is your GM I think that this year is different then previous years cause the East is just so close right now and almost everyone still has a chance. Very few of the teams at the bottom have decided they are sellers (Tampa and Columbus, Maybe Montreal, Washington should be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would rather see goose stay and sign a new deal, only being moved if he is gonna test the FA market this summer. Otherwise, he is a good 3rd/great 4th line center who is one of the better faceoff guys in the league. Sign him for under or around $3mil a year and its a good deal. As for Stafford and Roy, both have worn out their welcome with fans and both have shown enough that they have the potential, but may need a change of scenery to reach it. Both can bring in some kind of return, Roy probably getting the best return. I also believe that removing the 2 of them wouldn't impact the current Sabres roster enough that they still couldn't finish out the season strong and possibly get into the playoffs Day-umm. I think he is about if not slightly over his value now at $2.3M. No way I want him tying up $3M in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would not assume the bolded part at all. As more teams make trades the market for your players shrinks. As mentioned several times in recent days, how many teams with 2nd round picks in 2012 are left? If say Detroit picks up a tough, third line player or another Dman in the next couple of days, don't you think teams like Vancouver will be scrabling to add pieces to their puzzel? I don't want to center my trade around getting a 2nd round pick in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 they are always disapointing when your a sabres fan and regier is your GM I think that this year is different then previous years cause the East is just so close right now and almost everyone still has a chance. Very few of the teams at the bottom have decided they are sellers (Tampa and Columbus, Maybe Montreal, Washington should be) It has absolutely nothing to do with being a Sabres fan, but I knew someone would bring it up. The contracts play the biggest role in everything here. Look at previous deadline days. No one is taking on long term contracts. I looked it up a couple days ago and posted it. Out of all of last year's deadline deals, only something like 2 or 3 non-expiring contracts were moved. And those were deals that had only one year remaining. No one is goign to make a longterm commitment to any player at this point in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 If say Detroit picks up a tough, third line player or another Dman in the next couple of days, don't you think teams like Vancouver will be scrabling to add pieces to their puzzel? I don't want to center my trade around getting a 2nd round pick in return. I'm not going to assume that. Van may very well be happy with there roster and may not see anything in the market that improves them. The bottom line is that there is a finite number of buyers. Even if we assume that every playoff team is a buyer, every deal made means there is one less buyer looking for something. If we use Jordan Leopold as an example, how many buying teams have already picked up a D-man? And how many teams have already traded their 2nd round pick for 2012? We already have a couple teams that are not going to be buyers because they've got their defenseman picked up and quite a few more that have already moved the pick that would be closest to Leopold's fair market value. So, what is left of the trade market for Jordan? It got real small. Same concept applies at every other position. the longer you wait, the smaller the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 We can't question Ruff. We can't question Darcy. We can't question Black. We can't question Pegula. I guess all the moves they've made have been the right ones and we should just sit back and wait for the Cup. ...makes for a pretty boring board, though... did you hurt yourself stretching that far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabre4life Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 It has absolutely nothing to do with being a Sabres fan, but I knew someone would bring it up. The contracts play the biggest role in everything here. Look at previous deadline days. No one is taking on long term contracts. I looked it up a couple days ago and posted it. Out of all of last year's deadline deals, only something like 2 or 3 non-expiring contracts were moved. And those were deals that had only one year remaining. No one is goign to make a longterm commitment to any player at this point in the season. Brad Boyes comes to mind as one of the 2 or 3 you speak of... I'm not sure I really want them to do anything at this point... Let it play out see how this group functions for the rest of the season, then evaluate in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Wrote a little blog entry on possible trade scenarios for the Sabres... nothing ground breaking as usual but if you want to read it feel free http://www.thesportsbuff.com/?p=1177 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 You can find a good faceoff guy for your 4th line for a lot less than 3 mil a year. Who. Seriously, who? and make sure he can also be a first unit PKer, chip in 10-12 goals a year. while skating 12-15 minutes a game, and be a + player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Who. Seriously, who? and make sure he can also be a first unit PKer, chip in 10-12 goals a year. while skating 12-15 minutes a game, and be a + player. This Guy was less than $75,000/yr. And i think he was a senator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.