kishoph Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Adam's ice time has been bothering me for a while, the 13:00 TOI is inflated because of the ice time he received in the beginning of the season, I think it's probably closer to 11:00 now. In the past 5 games, he had less than 10:00 TOI in 2 of them (against the Sens just over 8:00) and it's not only that his ice time is so limited, he's been stuck on the 4th line. Adam has shown that he can produce, but if you limit his chances, how can you expect him to produce. I'm not the only one that remains confused as to why Lindy won't put him back with Pommers and Vanek and I don't buy that he was moved to bring scoring to another line. Lindy has always had a player that he keeps in his Dog house and to me that seems to be Adam, at least till Ennis gets back. Another ice time issue that bothers me is that both Roy and Stafford get more EV TOI than Pommers and Vanek, does this make sense ? As far as Wingers playing Center and Centers playing Wing, that's just stupid, but I wouldn't expect anything else from Lindy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 But those guys have all shown that they can play at the NHL level and have had some success Adam is still a rookie who had a quick start, he hasn't proven anything at the pro level yet and this is a good way to see what the kid is made of and what type of player he is. Will he play/work harder to get back to the top line, or continue to struggle? it will also show if his numbers and play were better because of his linemates, or did he help make his linemates better? Vanek and Pomminstein are going well no matter who was at center. I don't believe that Adam made those two better. It was definately them making him better, but at that point there were three forwards on the top line producing. Since Adam's slump there hasn't been an upgrade in center production. Just because Hecht is a proven Winger, Roy a proven slacker, and Chewie has some NHL experience with Tampa, does not mean they should be given the job. Wouldn't we like to see Adam filling the role and have Hecht able to help another line as acenter or wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Obviously I'm not paid to evaluate such things but what I have seen/read of Kassian in the AHL leads me to believe that he is ready to be developed here. I think the trick is to put guys like him and Adam in situations that aren't "weight of the world" type situations. He doesn't need to have the pressure of being the savior so he can develop on the 2nd or 3rd line and make his mistakes while playing agianst the other teams' 3rd line players. And I'll admit, the other part of my thought process involves jealousy. I see guys like Nugent-Hopkins, Couturier, and Landeskog getting the commitment from their teams to start their NHL development now and I wonder why a guy like Kassian, who has shown that he can play well among men, isn't get the same opportunity here and now. Along with what chz said about money, we also need to remember that Kassian isn't half the prospect that the three you listed are. Couturier is a bit more of a gray area, but with Nugent-Hopkins and Landeskog, we're talking about the truly elite prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'd just like to see if anyone has a slightly different view given this thread started with questions on Adam and moved to Kassian, and where the team is. I'm not picking a fight. In fact I have heard enough from Black now that my hopes of any quick turnaround are dashed and I am not wasting any more time on getting frustrated. Plenty of other passions to focus all of my energy on instead of wasting time trying to rekindle my love of this hockey team. To me this video (from about 1:05 in) shows how LR has coached what we liked about Kassian out of him ... he is not the same player he was. I was envisioning a Lucic, or as close as we could get anytime soon, and I just don't see it now. How's that GoDD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Nothing out of the ordinary here... just Lindy Ruff's old adage, "if you go two games without a goal you play 2 minutes a period on the fourth line regardless of the fact you were the top line center when Pominville and Vanek were producing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 including hecht in this discussion is kinda silly. hes not out there to score goals, hes out there to stop the other teams best players. any scoring he does is a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannustyrannus Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 including hecht in this discussion is kinda silly. hes not out there to score goals, hes out there to stop the other teams best players. any scoring he does is a bonus which is why Adam should be on the scoring line and not him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I would love to know the reasoning behind not going back to this line at all when we cant buy a goal. Literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 ... And Lindy can only work with whats given to him. I understand what Lindy does with the lines, he has been trying to get players going by moving them up with a better line, or moving some down to try and spark a line thats struggling. They want a balanced attack like they had previously, not just one scoring line and 3 struggling. Shut down the top line and then you shut down the team. Theres just too many players on this team that need to be moved and players to be changed to turn this around. I bet if you looked at most teams and coaches, Lindy probably has the lowest turnover in players over his tenure here then any other coach. Every year, the top 6 have been pretty much the same, with changes coming to the 3rd and 4th lines. The top 6 of this team contains maybe 1-2 players that would be considered top talent on any other team. This team lacks top tier talent in its forwards As for the Centre issue, It was Regier who ran out to overpay a winger to come be his big Centre pickup this offseason, and the team lacks so much depth at C that they have had to use Hecht as one because they have no one else. Adams starter out hot this season, but he, like many rookies has slowed down. Lindy can only work with what he is given But those guys have all shown that they can play at the NHL level and have had some success Adam is still a rookie who had a quick start, he hasn't proven anything at the pro level yet and this is a good way to see what the kid is made of and what type of player he is. Will he play/work harder to get back to the top line, or continue to struggle? it will also show if his numbers and play were better because of his linemates, or did he help make his linemates better? They have a balanced attack. It's an attack that produces 0-1 goals per game. I'd rather have 1 really good line than sitting an offensive threat on the 4th line. Lindy's line juggling is something that's always bothered me. You juggle things temporarily to get things going and then put it back if it makes sense. You have to find guys who play well together and let them go at it. Adam was not only good with Pominville and Vanek but he was good with Leino and Kassian. Sure, we don't have Kassian now and probably won't until the next injury/player shedding occurs. Still, keep him with Leino. If you constantly stir the ingredients they will never be able to come together properly. including hecht in this discussion is kinda silly. hes not out there to score goals, hes out there to stop the other teams best players. any scoring he does is a bonus Yes.. which is why he should NOT be on the top line. You don't put out your most offensive talent (offensive in the good, goal scoring way!) to shut down the other top line. Hecht should be firmly planted on line 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 ... If you constantly stir the ingredients they will never be able to come together properly. ... I sense another Emeril Lagasse reference coming in response to this post. But I think Gordon Ramsay would be a much better coach. GO SABRES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 To me this video (from about 1:05 in) shows how LR has coached what we liked about Kassian out of him ... he is not the same player he was. I was envisioning a Lucic, or as close as we could get anytime soon, and I just don't see it now. How's that GoDD? If your being serious - So Ruff teaching him how to hit without getting a penalty against him is a bad thing? If your joking - lol. Gents -- I fear that your unhappiness with the overall situation may be coloring your views on Adam and Kassian. Lindy and Darcy certainly aren't the only coach/GM who believe that ice time has to be earned, especially with young players. I would guess that just about every coach and GM feels the same way. This is Kassian's first year as a pro. He's certainly shown flashes, but there have been plenty of games in which he hasn't shown anything. The same is more or less true of Adam -- and he had a full season in the A to learn the pro game. I think it's just a fact of life when it comes to young players -- in most cases, they take time to mature into good pros, and trying to rush the process generally does more harm than good, both for their individual development and for the team. Of course, didn't this somewhat-less-than-Penn-State-type abuse take place just before Luker started the season like he was shot out of a cannon? So maybe Lindy's methods of coaching him and getting him ready for the season actually worked? +1, nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Gents -- I fear that your unhappiness with the overall situation may be coloring your views on Adam and Kassian. Of course it is. That *is* the premise of this thread. Why are we playing vets who are never going to get us anywhere over the young guys? I'm ready for the young guys to come in, get 2nd line ice time, and displace some of the chaf. Yes.. which is why he should NOT be on the top line. You don't put out your most offensive talent (offensive in the good, goal scoring way!) to shut down the other top line. Hecht should be firmly planted on line 3. Agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I was unimpressed with Adam when he was on the top line. He looked lost and panicky to many times out there against other teams top lines. Ideally I would like him in a position that Roy was in coming out of the lock out and centering a 3rd scoring line. But we dont have that much scoring talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I sense another Emeril Lagasse reference coming in response to this post. But I think Gordon Ramsay would be a much better coach. GO SABRES!!! Well, Emeril will tell you how to improve and make sure you have good ingredients. Ramsay would tell you how much you suck as a chef and that you're doing it all wrong and that only he can do it the right way. I was unimpressed with Adam when he was on the top line. He looked lost and panicky to many times out there against other teams top lines. Ideally I would like him in a position that Roy was in coming out of the lock out and centering a 3rd scoring line. But we dont have that much scoring talent. And yet he was still scoring.. most of the Sabres look lost out there on any given night. The WPG loss was a result of 4 players on the ice (none of them Adam) who couldn't figure out who was supposed to take the puck out of the zone. In fact, getting the puck out of the zone looks the same on most nights... "please, please, please, let that hard around on the board not be intercepted by the other team's player that I know is already standing there." And as you point out.. we don't have that much talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 My point is I viewed Adam on the top line as bringing Vanek and pommenville down as they had to cover alot of mistakes. At least with Hecht on thier line they can play a little more risky as he is less prone to mistakes. Problem is I don't think Adam fits on a line that would give him the best shot at getting quality minutes. He isn't up to the defense challenge againt top lines and isn't enough of a offensive threat in his own right for the 2nd line. So 3rd line or 4th is only place atm (3rd and 4th line been pretty interchangable on results lately). Having said that......... If he gets some chemistry cycling with Leino like he showed with Kassian he could give us a very good line to throw out against teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I see what you are saying about Vanek and Pominville covering for him but if I recall correctly (and it was awhile ago) they were scoring pretty well even given that problem. Better to mold him to playing with top talent than mold him playing with 4th line talent. I think his chemistry with Kassian has been proven. The Traverse City tournament and then in the season they click. Bring up Foligno and see what happens then... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Moving Adam to the wing doesn't make any sense. The team needs centres who like to play centre. What about Ennis? Why can't he play centre (when he's healthy?) Hecht is obviously a better winger. You don't want to rush a guys development (see Derrick Brassard, etc.) But, Hecht won't be here forever, so why not start developing the young guys. And perhaps I am wrong, but didn't Roy often have better production when he played LW? How about lines of Vanek-Ennis-Pominville, Roy-Adam-Stafford, Gerbe-Leino-Boyes, & Hecht-Gaustand-Kaleta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I agree about letting Adam develop by playing as a center and it does irk me that he is playing wing. I can only guess he is playing wing cause he is still lacking on the defensive assignments of a center but Ruff wants to give his line more minutes so he has him on a simpler defensive position. Still He needs the game time at center to develop not coasting on wing with less defensive responsibility. I would much rather have Foligno and even Kassian to a lesser extent getting more quality minutes in Rochester then getting fill in minutes on the 3rd or 4th line here As for Hecht being a better winger..... you said it yourself, he isn't gonna be here forever. Let him play center and keep a younger player that likes wing continue to develop as a winger. I don't really remember the games Roy played wing. Not sure if thats a statement of how little he played there, accomplished there, or how bad my memory is now a days lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Maybe Lindy needs to see how Peter DeBoer has handled Adam Henrique. Both he and Adam were drafted the same year. Henrique had plenty of minus games to start the season. He has only played less than 15 minutes in a game 4 times this season and those were within the first 6 games of the season. He is averaging over 18 per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 But have the Devils lost as many man games as the Sabres? It's hard to evaluate how Luke's being handled with so many players out injured. Let's wait and see ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 But have the Devils lost as many man games as the Sabres? It's hard to evaluate how Luke's being handled with so many players out injured. Let's wait and see ... It's the hand they have been dealt. You can't just sit around and wait for health to evaluate and test these guys. Blame injuries for losses. If anything the injuries should force quicker development. Also like Adam and think he should get a chance to be on the first line, but he is not close to Henrique in the development stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 It's the hand they have been dealt. You can't just sit around and wait for health to evaluate and test these guys. Perhaps, I should have put a :rolleyes: to indicate my sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Any way you slice it, not putting Adam Back on the Vanek/Pominville line is unacceptable (if not baffling). I just don't get what Lindy is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I agree he should be put back there, out of desperation. Might as well try it at this point. But I find it amusing a lot of people complain Lindy gives important ice time to Roy, Stafford, Boyes etc. when they haven't earned it....yet complain that Luke Adam isn't gifted the top center spot again. And I say gifted, because he's done ZERO to earn it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I agree he should be put back there, out of desperation. Might as well try it at this point. But I find it amusing a lot of people complain Lindy gives important ice time to Roy, Stafford, Boyes etc. when they haven't earned it....yet complain that Luke Adam isn't gifted the top center spot again. And I say gifted, because he's done ZERO to earn it back. Lindy broke up what at the time was the most productive line in the NHL. Why? Who cares what Adam was doing on that line? If him being there made Vanek and Pominville score more then he is serving a purpose. It's a team game. Again, why split it up. It just makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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