Stirring up Ruff sh*t

[PASabreFan]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this guy.

 

Punishing the team with tough practices is kind of like the parent who doesn't discipline his or her kids the right way, then ends up having to beat them out of frustration.

 

I've grown weary of Ruff's teams (over the years, not just this year) not being ready to play, falling behind in games, putting on comeback shows, failing to show up in back to back games.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that the Sabres didn't play "the system." Either they don't understand the system, can't play the system or hate the system and are rebelling against it.

 

All of this falls on coaching. So either you change the players or you change the coach. A core group of players here seems locked in. Where does that leave us?

 

Is Lindy Ruff -- something just a bit north of mediocrity, with spurts of success and missing the playoffs thrown in here and there -- here for good?

[Chief Enabler]

Thats one thing we havent been bitching about yet. Usually its, TG, LQ, Darcy/Lindy blah. This year we seem to riding the players, now thats getting old. Maybe a new curfew will be issued, lights out by 9? I think Lindy should pull a Jack Del Rio; no video games, ipods or train sets. :D

[stenbaro]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this guy.

 

Punishing the team with tough practices is kind of like the parent who doesn't discipline his or her kids the right way, then ends up having to beat them out of frustration.

 

I've grown weary of Ruff's teams (over the years, not just this year) not being ready to play, falling behind in games, putting on comeback shows, failing to show up in back to back games.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that the Sabres didn't play "the system." Either they don't understand the system, can't play the system or hate the system and are rebelling against it.

 

All of this falls on coaching. So either you change the players or you change the coach. A core group of players here seems locked in. Where does that leave us?

 

Is Lindy Ruff -- something just a bit north of mediocrity, with spurts of success and missing the playoffs thrown in here and there -- here for good?

3yrs ago we made the ECF..We pretty much gutted the core of that team and replaced it with less toughness less skilled players..I think Ruff can coach any team but he still needs the horses..I have been saying all along you cant just get rid of your good players and get nothing in return without it hurting you..As bad as it seems they are still in a playoff hunt for now..

[R_Dudley]

Is this the the Bills board ? Tear it down, Fire em all, lets rebuild it ! :unsure:

 

Your kidding right ? I have seen Ruff adjust and change his coaching through the years he has been here to match the players and type of hockey that is being played. I'm not ready to go there, the system Ruff is using this year is different then he was using the previous several years so yes it will take some of the players time to adjust (okay minus Max who probably can never change). If they do not adjust then they will be gone down the road but we should not do it till we give the new system and the players a chance to learn to really work in that system.

 

Change just for the sake of change can also be chaos !

[nucci]

Is this the the Bills board ? Tear it down, Fire em all, lets rebuild it ! :unsure:

 

Your kidding right ? I have seen Ruff adjust and change his coaching through the years he has been here to match the players and type of hockey that is being played. I'm not ready to go there, the system Ruff is using this year is different then he was using the previous several years so yes it will take some of the players time to adjust (okay minus Max who probably can never change). If they do not adjust then they will be gone down the road but we should not do it till we give the new system and the players a chance to learn to really work in that system.

 

Change just for the sake of change can also be chaos !

Thought the same thing.

[Chief Enabler]

3yrs ago we made the ECF..We pretty much gutted the core of that team and replaced it with less toughness less skilled players..I think Ruff can coach any team but he still needs the horses..I have been saying all along you cant just get rid of your good players and get nothing in return without it hurting you..As bad as it seems they are still in a playoff hunt for now..

Grier, Warrener horses or Hecht, Mair horses?

[LabattBlue]

Moot point on Lindy potentially being more of the problem versus the solution...

 

 

TG loves LQ who in turn loves DR who in turn loves Lindy. This team would have to miss the playoffs this year AND next before anything would change in terms of FO/coaching staff.

[PASabreFan]

I'm not advocating firing anyone. I guess the Bills' swoon and the Sabres' tailoff just have me spooked a bit. I don't know why mediocrity is accepted. Why don't the Bills ever hire a top coach?

 

I believe Lindy is a top coach, but then I wonder if I'm not overrating him as Buffalo sports fans are prone to do (Miller as "one of the elite," Edwards for league MVP, "best fans in sports" etc. etc.)

 

Would Lindy's record have gotten him 10 years behind the bench in Detroit? (Wings, not Lions.)

 

Why do some organizations achieve excellence and others wallow and others get close and can't replicate the success (cough cough)?

 

Very weighty questions.

[LabattBlue]

Why do some organizations achieve excellence and others wallow and others get close and can't replicate the success (cough cough)?

I think a lot of it is luck and getting hot at the right time. Look at the Phillies...they barely made it into the playoffs and then breezed through the competition. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't hurt to have an open wallet at times, but look at the Sabres in the 2006 playoffs, there was a good chance that if the blueline did not get decimated that they would have beat Carolina and blown by the Oilers. The Bills in SB 25...one kick and history would have been a lot kinder to that era. Who knows what would have followed in the next season or two after they had won a championship. No one will ever know.

 

 

Then you look at franchise like the Bengals, Lions, Clippers, etc... and there is no excuse other than incompetence from the top down. Other franchises like the Pirates & Royals haven't learned form the success of the A's that the only way for the small marklets to win is develop from within and take a kick at the can every few years before retooling.

 

 

So where does that leave the Bills and the Sabres? Ralph's cheapness in terms of spending money in the front office and the coaching staff is definitely a detriment to the franchise. The Sabres on the other hand need to mimic the A's model, develop from within and sign key players to become the core of the team. Make any mistakes($$$) in terms of the core players and you will be destined for mediocrity or worse.

[SabreNod]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this guy.

 

Punishing the team with tough practices is kind of like the parent who doesn't discipline his or her kids the right way, then ends up having to beat them out of frustration.

 

I've grown weary of Ruff's teams (over the years, not just this year) not being ready to play, falling behind in games, putting on comeback shows, failing to show up in back to back games.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that the Sabres didn't play "the system." Either they don't understand the system, can't play the system or hate the system and are rebelling against it.

 

All of this falls on coaching. So either you change the players or you change the coach. A core group of players here seems locked in. Where does that leave us?

 

Is Lindy Ruff -- something just a bit north of mediocrity, with spurts of success and missing the playoffs thrown in here and there -- here for good?

 

 

Seems to me that part of the problem is the fans. Unless we win every game, there will always be fans complaining about something new. The Bitch Du Jour.

 

There are 20 teams that would love to get their hands on Ruff and pay him 2x what he's making in Buffalo. If you don't see what value he has brought the organization, and continues to bring to the organization, and WHY HE'S SO RESPECTED by hockey people league-wide, then I would submit that you're sans clue.

 

This is still one of the youngest teams in the league, and we still have players that can't seem to do what they're told. For one obvious example: Max won't be a Sabre all year. They'll take as low as a 3rd round pick for him before the year is out. He's unreachable. He can't evolve beyond his own tendencies. Max is perfect for the Russian league, and he'll be there in due time.

[Spudz]

Sorry but I totally don't agree.

 

Ruff knows what it takes in this league and has adapted his style for the talent he has. He has gone far into the playoffs with both sides, total defense, and total offense. It is extremely impressive that he has fielded both types of teams, when typically with coaches you see the same strategy different names. I used to get on his case particularly pre-lockout Biron years, but I truly believe he is a great coach.

 

I actually love what he is doing this year, because we cannot play the wide open game we did for the last 3 years. We no longer have the fire power, and the rules have changed preventing this. He is trying to tighten down on defense, and take opportunity through the transition game. It has worked in the games we won, and when we lost I see the D looking out of place. They chase the puck handler, it takes them out of position, and when they get the puck in their own end can't find someone to move it up the ice.

 

This is a big change from previous couple years, and most of this team experienced that so I would expect it to take a while to get them to consistantly play like this.

 

I do believe that if Ruff had 100% rule there would be some players missing from tomorrow's lineup. He would def get more grit here.

[shrader]

Would Lindy's record have gotten him 10 years behind the bench in Detroit? (Wings, not Lions.)

 

It's a real tough comparison thanks the the organization being stuck in purgatory for 3 years. I can't hold those years against anyone who survived them. The rest of Ruff's time here? Yeah, I think he'd hold onto that job just about anywhere.

 

 

Anyway, this team has lost 3 games. It's hardly a time for doom and gloom (not that this is what you're suggesting, though others might be).

[darksabre]

Thats one thing we havent been bitching about yet. Usually its, TG, LQ, Darcy/Lindy blah. This year we seem to riding the players, now thats getting old. Maybe a new curfew will be issued, lights out by 9? I think Lindy should pull a Jack Del Rio; no video games, ipods or train sets. :D

 

they brought their :censored: ing toys!

[2ForTripping]

With mentions of jock sniffing , how you like to be dramatic , wondering if 2 of the referees are dating and this topic starting post you seem like quite the DIVA!

[PASabreFan]

It's a real tough comparison thanks the the organization being stuck in purgatory for 3 years. I can't hold those years against anyone who survived them. The rest of Ruff's time here? Yeah, I think he'd hold onto that job just about anywhere.

 

Anyway, this team has lost 3 games. It's hardly a time for doom and gloom (not that this is what you're suggesting, though others might be).

 

Well, they've lost six games. But this thread isn't the result of a few losses, just this sinking feeling that all is not well. Drew Stafford said late last week he didn't mind being scratched, because the team was playing so "awesome." Are they? They've pooped their pants in four of the last six games. The coach has resorted to benching his season-opening top line right winger, ripping up the lines every day and holding "bag" practices. He wants them to play his system, but they won't, not consistently anyway. And on top of that, Lindy still doesn't know how to handle his goaltenders. Lalime, despite playing every bit as well as Miller in the early going, is starting to mold.

 

Spudz -- doesn't a coach have to win a championship to be considered great? Lindy had the best goaltending in the league for several years and got close. He had high scoring teams, the best team in the league in the regular season, and got close. I don't see THE banner fluttering up there, do you?

 

I figured the response would be such. Nod, of course Lindy has brought value here and has earned respect. That wasn't really the point.

 

Narrowing down the question -- is Lindy good enough to win a Cup here if ownership won't ever put good young teams "over the top" with those missing pieces? And is "good enough" good enough for us? Remember, if the Sabres somehow miss the playoffs again (I'd bet my left nut they won't), that'll be four misses in six years since Hasek left town.

[PASabreFan]

With mentions of jock sniffing , how you like to be dramatic , wondering if 2 of the referees are dating and this topic starting post you seem like quite the DIVA!

 

I heard you were third man in. Is it true those guys swallow more than their whistles?

[tom webster]

Seems to me that part of the problem is the fans. Unless we win every game, there will always be fans complaining about something new. The Bitch Du Jour.

 

There are 20 teams that would love to get their hands on Ruff and pay him 2x what he's making in Buffalo. If you don't see what value he has brought the organization, and continues to bring to the organization, and WHY HE'S SO RESPECTED by hockey people league-wide, then I would submit that you're sans clue.

 

This is still one of the youngest teams in the league, and we still have players that can't seem to do what they're told. For one obvious example: Max won't be a Sabre all year. They'll take as low as a 3rd round pick for him before the year is out. He's unreachable. He can't evolve beyond his own tendencies. Max is perfect for the Russian league, and he'll be there in due time.

 

A) Ruff is a great Coach

B) They are not one of the youngest teams in the league anymore. At 28 years avaerage age, they are actually closer to the top then they are ot the bottom.

However, the core is young and the average age is skewed by a very old defense.

[MattPie]

Well, they've lost six games.

 

If you look at the numbers, an OTL is only a little less than holding even in terms of the playoffs. A team has to average 1.15 pts/game (roughly) to get to the playoffs. An OTL is a lot closer to that than the 0 points of a "real" loss.

 

OTLs are annoying, but not something I'd worry about too much.

[shrader]

If you look at the numbers, an OTL is only a little less than holding even in terms of the playoffs. A team has to average 1.15 pts/game (roughly) to get to the playoffs. An OTL is a lot closer to that than the 0 points of a "real" loss.

 

OTLs are annoying, but not something I'd worry about too much.

 

They're ties. I refuse to refer to them as anything else.

[PASabreFan]

They're ties. I refuse to refer to them as anything else.

 

Matt and shrader, they always feel like losses to me, and going by the reaction of the players, I bet they feel the same.

 

Teams can learn how to lose (see the effect losing all those shootouts had on the 07-08 Sabres).

[stenbaro]

Grier, Warrener horses or Hecht, Mair horses?

Here let me remind you players who have left from that team..LOL..And if you dont think that team was better than this one oh well...

 

Mckee

Dumont

Grier

Drury

Briere

Biron

Pyatt

Campbell

..

They have been replaced with

 

Macarthur

Sekera

Rivet

Staford

Paille

Kaleta

Ellis

Lalime

 

Now lets stop blaming the coach :wallbash:

[Two or less]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this guy.

 

Punishing the team with tough practices is kind of like the parent who doesn't discipline his or her kids the right way, then ends up having to beat them out of frustration.

 

I've grown weary of Ruff's teams (over the years, not just this year) not being ready to play, falling behind in games, putting on comeback shows, failing to show up in back to back games.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that the Sabres didn't play "the system." Either they don't understand the system, can't play the system or hate the system and are rebelling against it.

 

All of this falls on coaching. So either you change the players or you change the coach. A core group of players here seems locked in. Where does that leave us?

 

Is Lindy Ruff -- something just a bit north of mediocrity, with spurts of success and missing the playoffs thrown in here and there -- here for good?

 

More times then not, i respect you're opinion PASabreFan. But this? Not only do i disagree but i'm starting to wonder about your credibility as a poster.

 

The Sabres are still one of the elite teams in the east. Only people on BUFFALO SABRES message boards expected to be near the top. Every team has their bad nights. Montreal just lost 6-3. It's a 82 game season, you can't expect to win them all, especially since the talent isn't exactly there. Yeah, we are at 100% health wise right now. I know. But, for major part of this season we weren't even close and still the team played great.

 

Lindy Ruff isn't going anywhere. This team lacks alot. If you think this team is a complete team, then you're only fooling yourself and being a homer. Experts all over the league expected the Sabres to miss the playoffs and a quick start by the Sabres, by our PK unit, by Vanek, by Miller, by MacArthur and such, put us in good shape to start November. Now, we're getting a bit spoiled and expect way too much. We had a let down game vs. Atlanta at home which CAN NOT happen, but it DOES. This is real life. The following night, they did play well vs. Boston but were beaten by the better, fresher team. It was as simple as that.

 

They will be ok. I'm sorry to disappoint you and sorry we can't win every game, sorry we can't win the President's trophy every season, sorry we can't have a Stanley Cup contender every year.... it is what it is, Sabres are a mid-table team that's over achieved so far and it's up in the air to see if they keep it up or not? Only time will tell. I think we will make the playoffs though, as a 4th or 5th seed, so pretty much stay where we're at right now.

[inkman]

More times then not, i respect you're opinion PASabreFan. But this? Not only do i disagree but i'm starting to wonder about your credibility as a poster.

Whether or not I agree with this sentiment, you do realize that you are by far the biggest Sabres cheerleader on the board. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Posters like you are appreciated with the likes of Deluca, PA and me around. Our Ying to your Yang.

 

The Sabres are still one of the elite teams in the east.

I'm really starting to doubt this. The Sabres faced more than half of their opponents back up goalies and several teams were coming off back to back games.

[shrader]

Matt and shrader, they always feel like losses to me, and going by the reaction of the players, I bet they feel the same.

 

Teams can learn how to lose (see the effect losing all those shootouts had on the 07-08 Sabres).

 

Teams regularly go into a shell late in the third to preserve a tied score and get the game into overtime so they can lock up that free point. Then they'll open it up quite a bit in 4-on-4 because of that point. There is no way players feel anywhere near the same way as they do after a regulation loss.

[That Aud Smell]

is Lindy good enough to win a Cup here if ownership won't ever put good young teams "over the top" with those missing pieces?

is anyone?

 

i think lindy's a very good, possibly a great, coach. and i think he's plenty good enough to win a cup, provided he bottles lightning and catches the right breaks (he did the one he could control in '05-06 (not so sure about '98-99 -- i mean, what did he "bottle" back then?)).

 

mind you, i don't think he's an "elite" coach; he won't ever be considered such without first winning a cup.

 

i also think that, while it's not "sexy," there's real value in continuity, and that the allure of starting all over with a new regime is more often than not a siren's song.

 

i also think PA's well within his rights to raise this question, that he's done so in a characteristically-intelligent manner, and that he's earned whatever credibility a poster here would need to do so.

 

i also like thai food, quiet walks in the woods and strong coffee with a good book.

 

/kirk out