Stirring up Ruff sh*t

[PASabreFan]

More times then not, i respect you're opinion PASabreFan. But this? Not only do i disagree but i'm starting to wonder about your credibility as a poster.

 

The Sabres are still one of the elite teams in the east. Only people on BUFFALO SABRES message boards expected to be near the top. Every team has their bad nights. Montreal just lost 6-3. It's a 82 game season, you can't expect to win them all, especially since the talent isn't exactly there. Yeah, we are at 100% health wise right now. I know. But, for major part of this season we weren't even close and still the team played great.

 

Lindy Ruff isn't going anywhere. This team lacks alot. If you think this team is a complete team, then you're only fooling yourself and being a homer. Experts all over the league expected the Sabres to miss the playoffs and a quick start by the Sabres, by our PK unit, by Vanek, by Miller, by MacArthur and such, put us in good shape to start November. Now, we're getting a bit spoiled and expect way too much. We had a let down game vs. Atlanta at home which CAN NOT happen, but it DOES. This is real life. The following night, they did play well vs. Boston but were beaten by the better, fresher team. It was as simple as that.

 

They will be ok. I'm sorry to disappoint you and sorry we can't win every game, sorry we can't win the President's trophy every season, sorry we can't have a Stanley Cup contender every year.... it is what it is, Sabres are a mid-table team that's over achieved so far and it's up in the air to see if they keep it up or not? Only time will tell. I think we will make the playoffs though, as a 4th or 5th seed, so pretty much stay where we're at right now.

 

An elite team? But not a contender? "Mid-table" elite maybe? I'd say your credibility is in question now.

 

If questioning Lindy Ruff costs me my cred, so bet it. The man is not untouchable.

 

Good teams change coaches. It's OK. Sometimes it's the difference between being good and great. And if you think coaches are always tied to the talent they have, look at New England. Great is a term that's used too much. Bill is certainly worthy of that term.

 

I like Lindy, but I'm sure not looking forward to 10 more years of the guy behind the bench.

[R_Dudley]

He wants them to play his system, but they won't, not consistently anyway. And on top of that, Lindy still doesn't know how to handle his goaltenders. Lalime, despite playing every bit as well as Miller in the early going, is starting to mold.

 

Spudz -- doesn't a coach have to win a championship to be considered great?

 

Narrowing down the question -- is Lindy good enough to win a Cup here if ownership won't ever put good young teams "over the top" with those missing pieces? And is "good enough" good enough for us? Remember, if the Sabres somehow miss the playoffs again (I'd bet my left nut they won't), that'll be four misses in six years since Hasek left town.

Not sure you can say that yet about goaltender's, the last full year w/ Biron he always seemed to be pressing the right buttons; with Goalie rotation, last year well Tbo just plain Tblew and I actually think he wanted to see if Miller could for all his talk carry a team ala one of Miller's stated heroe's Martin Brodeur; well he proved to Ryan he can't and even Ryan's singing a different tune; this year it's still a little too early in the season to say he's blowing the rotation.

 

Defintion of Great, yeah I guess from the general public and media perception that is true but from a facts based who would have done better with what Lindy had to work with I say No and i think that history will show with all the changes up's and downs, bankruptcy, etc with this team that he is a great coach.

 

Last yes absolutely good enough to win a cup here , I am not sure there is anybody else who would have or could do more with what he's been given.

 

A) Ruff is a great Coach

:thumbsup:

[R_Dudley]

An elite team? But not a contender? "Mid-table" elite maybe? I'd say your credibility is in question now.

I like Lindy, but I'm sure not looking forward to 10 more years of the guy behind the bench.

 

I think he will retire or quit on his own terms when he feels he's at that point with this job/team that you sound like you are with him.

[nfreeman]

is anyone?

 

i think lindy's a very good, possibly a great, coach. and i think he's plenty good enough to win a cup, provided he bottles lightning and catches the right breaks (he did the one he could control in '05-06 (not so sure about '98-99 -- i mean, what did he "bottle" back then?)).

 

mind you, i don't think he's an "elite" coach; he won't ever be considered such without first winning a cup.

 

i also think that, while it's not "sexy," there's real value in continuity, and that the allure of starting all over with a new regime is more often than not a siren's song.

 

i also think PA's well within his rights to raise this question, that he's done so in a characteristically-intelligent manner, and that he's earned whatever credibility a poster here would need to do so.

 

i also like thai food, quiet walks in the woods and strong coffee with a good book.

 

/kirk out

outstanding.

 

FWIW, Lindy can coach my team as long as he wants.

[PASabreFan]

Here let me remind you players who have left from that team..LOL..And if you dont think that team was better than this one oh well...

 

Mckee

Dumont

Grier

Drury

Briere

Biron

Pyatt

Campbell

..

They have been replaced with

 

Macarthur

Sekera

Rivet

Staford

Paille

Kaleta

Ellis

Lalime

 

Now lets stop blaming the coach :wallbash:

 

Too early to say for sure, but Lalime doesn't look like a dropoff from Biron. Also early, but Sekera looks like at least a tradeoff for Campbell and could very well be better down the road. Rivet's an upgrade over McKee. Briere can't be replaced, but Vanek's a maturing player who might score 50 this year. In terms of leadership, has Rivet taken over for Drury? Not sure. Paille and Kaleta provide some grit, but I'll give you a net loss of that intangible quality that was provided by McKee, Dumont and Grier. All in all, I don't think the decline is that sharp. Most of the core from 05-06 is still here and still approaching their prime. What this team needs is a spark, to catch that lightning that the 05-06 team did. I see signs of it. I guess this all goes to my questioning of Ruff. In the end, I don't believe this team has to take a back seat to 05-06. If this team doesn't make a similar run, yep, I'm looking at coaching.

[PASabreFan]

outstanding.

 

FWIW, Lindy can coach my team as long as he wants.

 

Would you feel this way if he hadn't been a Sabre, and the Sabre he was?

[shrader]

Would you feel this way if he hadn't been a Sabre, and the Sabre he was?

 

My guess is that it has a lot to do with the fact that you'd be hard pressed to name any other Sabres coach that has been to 4 conference finals. Ok, last year sucked, but hasn't he earned the right to attempt to turn things around?

[tom webster]

My guess is that it has a lot to do with the fact that you'd be hard pressed to name any other Sabres coach that has been to 4 conference finals. Ok, last year sucked, but hasn't he earned the right to attempt to turn things around?

 

 

Yes, and by the way New England Bill is sub .500 in games when Tom Brady was not the starting quarterback.

[PASabreFan]

My guess is that it has a lot to do with the fact that you'd be hard pressed to name any other Sabres coach that has been to 4 conference finals. Ok, last year sucked, but hasn't he earned the right to attempt to turn things around?

 

Of course he has. I wasn't suggesting firing the guy!

 

Let's revisit this in a month. If the Sabres have fallen out of a playoff spot, and I don't think they will, this conversation will have a lot more relevance.

 

Above all, I'm just curious about, and like to challenge, the idea that Lindy is coach for life.

[stenbaro]

Too early to say for sure, but Lalime doesn't look like a dropoff from Biron. Also early, but Sekera looks like at least a tradeoff for Campbell and could very well be better down the road. Rivet's an upgrade over McKee. Briere can't be replaced, but Vanek's a maturing player who might score 50 this year. In terms of leadership, has Rivet taken over for Drury? Not sure. Paille and Kaleta provide some grit, but I'll give you a net loss of that intangible quality that was provided by McKee, Dumont and Grier. All in all, I don't think the decline is that sharp. Most of the core from 05-06 is still here and still approaching their prime. What this team needs is a spark, to catch that lightning that the 05-06 team did. I see signs of it. I guess this all goes to my questioning of Ruff. In the end, I don't believe this team has to take a back seat to 05-06. If this team doesn't make a similar run, yep, I'm looking at coaching.

youre looking at through a bitter eye..no way are they even close :thumbsup:

[Two or less]

My guess is that it has a lot to do with the fact that you'd be hard pressed to name any other Sabres coach that has been to 4 conference finals. Ok, last year sucked, but hasn't he earned the right to attempt to turn things around?

 

yeah, i honestly don't see a case here against Ruff. He hasn't had the greatest of talent and more times then not made the team win. Coming from the lockout, we were the joke of the league and we almost won the Cup. The following year we did something that nobody could have even expected. Won the President's Trophy for the first time in club history. Losing 2 super stars and still having a young team, it wasn't a surprise we struggled. But it looks like we're back on track right now but a few players are failing Ruff, thus the disappointment, although, see the disappointment in just ONE member out of a very active web site, just shows what a non story/issue this is. Sorry, i think we're just wasting our time on this thread.

 

And PA - I said elite because we are, based on reality. Look at the points. I don't care what the score of the TB or Atlanta game was, we are one of the better defensive teams in hockey, have one of the best goalies in the league, have the leading goal scorer and points prove it too. We also beat teams ahead of us or right next to us (NYR, Montreal). Like i said, i do think we over achieved though and don't think we'll be an elite team when it's all said and done, but we were the #4 team when we had our best chance to win the cup.

[Two or less]

Would you feel this way if he hadn't been a Sabre, and the Sabre he was?

 

How about we just look at his coaching record?

[darksabre]

Lest we forget that Lindy said he was going to retire this season if management didn't work with him. He was fed up with certain players on last years team, and he may still not be entirely happy with the team right now. Let's give Lindy the benefit of the doubt that he knows when it will be time to walk away.

[nfreeman]

Would you feel this way if he hadn't been a Sabre, and the Sabre he was?

It's a fair question. Certainly it doesn't hurt that I remember going to the games at the Aud with my dad and seeing Lindy wear #22 in the classic white unis, playing forward and D, giving 100% every shift, and never backing away from a scrap. But I don't think that it's that big of a factor. Which leads us to...

 

My guess is that it has a lot to do with the fact that you'd be hard pressed to name any other Sabres coach that has been to 4 conference finals. Ok, last year sucked, but hasn't he earned the right to attempt to turn things around?

There we go. The man has been highly successful. He's delivered the goods. He's won focusing on defense, and he's won focusing on offense. He's won in the regular season and he's won in the playoffs -- both as a favorite and as an underdog (that Senators team we beat in '06 was a GD all-star team). And in the situations where he hasn't, I think he was facing fairly debilitating handicaps (loss of Dominik, franchise in bankruptcy and possibly folding or moving, loss of cocaptains, etc.).

 

It's also worth noting that he's coaching for a team that is in the bottom 1/3 of the NHL in payroll and that never, EVER, goes out and signs a marquee free agent (and even for the 2nd-tier free agents, the Sabres have an uphill battle given perception issues around the NHL regarding both the city and the franchise).

 

Let's see how this season unfolds before we start spouting theories.

[nfreeman]

Lest we forget that Lindy said he was going to retire this season if management didn't work with him. He was fed up with certain players on last years team, and he may still not be entirely happy with the team right now. Let's give Lindy the benefit of the doubt that he knows when it will be time to walk away.

link? any support for this? I haven't seen this anywhere.

[el_Polako]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this guy.

 

Sabres have 19pts, 2nd most in the Eastern Conference and you're annoyed with one of the leagues best coaches? ya that makes sense...

[deluca67]

Ruff gave me the biggest laugh today when I heard a sound bite on WGR. He said he may have to go with a tougher lineup this week. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Have the Sabres made some deals for players will ballz that have yet to be reported. :w00t: :w00t:

[PASabreFan]

Sabres have 19pts, 2nd most in the Eastern Conference and you're annoyed with one of the leagues best coaches? ya that makes sense...

 

It makes sense. I was annoyed at the 06-07 Sabres. It was one of the most depressing seasons in my history as a fan. My mantra that year, as many may recall, was "Senators in 5." You could see the disappointment coming even in those first 10 games, most of which were wins that were followed immediately by the need to shower to get the filth off.

 

When I get annoyed, people should worry. I'm the friggen' canary in the coal mine. I can sense the slightest human suffering.

 

Hey, you guys worship Lindy. He's not happy. So there. Wake up.

[PASabreFan]

yeah, i honestly don't see a case here against Ruff. He hasn't had the greatest of talent and more times then not made the team win. Coming from the lockout, we were the joke of the league and we almost won the Cup. The following year we did something that nobody could have even expected. Won the President's Trophy for the first time in club history. Losing 2 super stars and still having a young team, it wasn't a surprise we struggled. But it looks like we're back on track right now but a few players are failing Ruff, thus the disappointment, although, see the disappointment in just ONE member out of a very active web site, just shows what a non story/issue this is. Sorry, i think we're just wasting our time on this thread.

 

And PA - I said elite because we are, based on reality. Look at the points. I don't care what the score of the TB or Atlanta game was, we are one of the better defensive teams in hockey, have one of the best goalies in the league, have the leading goal scorer and points prove it too. We also beat teams ahead of us or right next to us (NYR, Montreal). Like i said, i do think we over achieved though and don't think we'll be an elite team when it's all said and done, but we were the #4 team when we had our best chance to win the cup.

 

I must be a glutton for punishment today, but I have to ask. I take it you think Ruff is one of the best coaches. If you have that, one of the better defensive teams, one of the best goalies and the leading goal scorer, why won't they be an elite team when "all is said and done"?

[spndnchz]

...

Hey, you guys worship Lindy. He's not happy. So there. Wake up.

I'll worry when he starts getting those little puffy bags below his eyes. So far no puff.

[PASabreFan]

How about we just look at his coaching record?

 

OK. It's pretty good in the regular season and even better in the playoffs (although I remain disturbed at a couple of huge series where we won the first game on the road and lost the series).

 

What's the point? My question was in reply to someone who said Lindy could coach for life.

 

Do you think his record is that good?

[Two or less]

I must be a glutton for punishment today, but I have to ask. I take it you think Ruff is one of the best coaches. If you have that, one of the better defensive teams, one of the best goalies and the leading goal scorer, why won't they be an elite team when "all is said and done"?

 

Because we all know how Miller can go from great to garbage.

 

Because we have TONI LYDMAN and HENRIK TALLINDER on defense.

 

Because Tallinder and Connolly are made out of glass and who knows if they can stay healthy.

 

Because the NHL is a very equal league with a ton of teams who are thinking the same thing, we can't we be that elite team at the end.

[Two or less]

I must be a glutton for punishment today, but I have to ask. I take it you think Ruff is one of the best coaches. If you have that, one of the better defensive teams, one of the best goalies and the leading goal scorer, why won't they be an elite team when "all is said and done"?

 

Sorry to double quote you, but yes i do think Ruff is a great coach. And IMO, if he wins a Cup, if it this year, 3 years or 5 years from now, he'll be remembered as ONE of the best this league has ever seen. If fails to get that Cup, i still think he was an awesome coach though and i think people around the league would agree.

[Kristian]

I've had my issues with Ruff, and I still do.

 

I don't like his powerplays. Never have, as it always seems to fall on one player having a great PP year, rather than them playing well (Andreychuk in 00-01, Kotalik in 05-06).

 

I don't like the way he's handled his goalie situation in the past either. We had the three-headed-goalie-monster for years, and since then it's been one WAY underperforming backup after another, playing 8 games a year.

 

I don't like the way he has the same doghouse players year after year either, yet keeps playing the same stiffs regardless how bad they might suck. Jason Woolley, Chris Gratton and now Paille were always in Lindy's doghouse, and while Gratton belonged there, Woolley did not and neither does Paille. On the flipside, guys like Kalinin and Max would play night in and night out.

 

That said, I simply think the current team is too small, too injury prone, too inexperienced, and too easily believing in their own press, and I agree that if Ruff had his way, the roster would look a lot different.

 

Conclusion - Ruff has his shortcomings where he could definitely use some help, like the PP for instance, but I believe another coach would head straight for the basement with this team which is still built for the no-touch NHL.

[Goodfella25]

This thread is an "epic fail". And I don't get why some of you are blaming Ruff for bringing certain players in here. He might get along with the GM, but that doesn't mean he IS the GM. Do you think he has wanted Max around this whole time? Kalinin up to last season? Or was he so "unfair" to put those SOBs in the "doghouse"?

 

The only thing I fault him for are his choices for assistant coaches. I think both of those guys are pretty bad. Our special teams have never been the same since Arniel left, and our defense hasn't exactly been good. But at the end of the day, coaching only goes so far. You have a bunch of millionaires in that locker room that are probably whining and crying about having to get hit and block shots. I sincerely doubt coaching fixes that. You can't motivate a bunch of softies to suddenly grow a pair. I mean I know science does some crazy things these days, but I don't believe Tallinder can magically grow a pair and stop looking like a limp-wristed little girly boy out there.

 

One last note--Ruff is #2 on the all-time coaching wins list for the Sabres. So I ask the anti-Ruff "crowd", is that a testament to how good a coach he is or an indication of the futility of this franchise since its inception?