[OT] Bills discussion

[LabattBlue]

I guess I'll take the contrarian point of view. There is a thread on TSW with many folks saying they liked the play. I didn't. Buffalo/Whitner was lucky that an offsetting penalty was called. That tackle was blatantly late. I would have had no issue if he was thrown out of the game for unsportsman-like behavior. They got beat. He was taunted, deservedly so. Get even with your play on the field, but don't take a blatant penalty when the games on the line. Many folks point out how that fired up the Bills. Where is the evidence of that? The Bills were playing pretty inspired before that play.

 

Okay off the sopabox... Great win... St Louis scares the beejeebies out of me...

I agree. I just posted in that thread on TSW, wondering how many people would have been proclaiming that they loved the hit, if it was not offsetting penalties and it contributed to the Bills losing the game due to bad field position.

[wjag]

:wallbash:

I stand by my comment. That was a MAJOR gaff in the game at that juncture. Sure he was dogging/baiting him by slowing down and jabbering. Taunting happens on just about every play from what I can tell. It is part of the game. It's a judgement call by the zebras whether it deserves a penalty.

[mercury]

If anyone deserves to be fired in Oakland, it has to be the defensive coordinator. He changed their style in the second and it killed them.

 

I'm still trying to understand their decision to allow the Bills to run the clock down to 00:03 for the final play. At that point, Oakland still had two timeouts remaining. Once the Bills made it apparent that they weren't going to run another offensive play, Lane Kiffin should've stopped the clock. The Oakland offense could've easily had roughly 20 seconds to work with.

 

Even though it was a penalty, I commend him for his late tackle on the touchdown pass. It reminded me of when Emmit Smith blasted TO when he ran all the way to the 50 yard line and made is "TO" symbol.

 

While Emmitt Smith did strike back at Owens by running his own touchdown ball to the Dallas logo, George Teague was actually the one who ran Owens over.

[SMIRNOFF]

I don't know how anyone can't admire the job Dick Jauron has done with this team. His first year, he inherited someone elses "mistakes"; "garbage"; whatever (insert whatever word you like) and managed to go 7-9. Last year he loses something like 15 (please correct me if my # is incorrect) or so people to injuries and stayes in the playoff hunt through the second-to-last week of the season, also going 7-9. He brings a calm demeanor to this team and they learn from their mistakes. These last two games are easily losses for this team last year and the year before.

 

You can also count me as one ofthe ones who didn't that that Edwards had "it". Yesterday, yes they beat a team they should have, but he delivered when it counted. Last week, in Jacksonville, he did it on the road, in the heat, against a very good Jax team (although their record doesn't show it). I know it has only been a few games, but maybe we have something here in the form of Kelly's successor.

[deluca67]

I'm still trying to understand their decision to allow the Bills to run the clock down to 00:03 for the final play. At that point, Oakland still had two timeouts remaining. Once the Bills made it apparent that they weren't going to run another offensive play, Lane Kiffin should've stopped the clock. The Oakland offense could've easily had roughly 20 seconds to work with.

While Emmitt Smith did strike back at Owens by running his own touchdown ball to the Dallas logo, George Teague was actually the one who ran Owens over.

I thought it was strange the Raiders didn't go for two on the last TD. If you make it you're up by 10 and the last second field goal only ties the score. Miss it and you force the Bills to go for two if they score the TD.

[deluca67]

I don't know how anyone can't admire the job Dick Jauron has done with this team. His first year, he inherited someone elses "mistakes"; "garbage"; whatever (insert whatever word you like) and managed to go 7-9. Last year he loses something like 15 (please correct me if my # is incorrect) or so people to injuries and stayes in the playoff hunt through the second-to-last week of the season, also going 7-9. He brings a calm demeanor to this team and they learn from their mistakes. These last two games are easily losses for this team last year and the year before.

 

You can also count me as one ofthe ones who didn't that that Edwards had "it". Yesterday, yes they beat a team they should have, but he delivered when it counted. Last week, in Jacksonville, he did it on the road, in the heat, against a very good Jax team (although their record doesn't show it). I know it has only been a few games, but maybe we have something here in the form of Kelly's successor.

I believe the majority of criticism of Jauron is based on game day decisions and time management. I also think many are put off by his demeanor. His team has a big comeback win and there is no change in his emotion. He constantly looks and sounds like he was just diagnosed with cancer.

[inkman]

It is part of the game.

 

It shouldn't be...

[ROC Sabres]

I believe the majority of criticism of Jauron is based on game day decisions and time management. I also think many are put off by his demeanor. His team has a big comeback win and there is no change in his emotion. He constantly looks and sounds like he was just diagnosed with cancer.

Kinda like Lindy, except when he's pissed.

 

Actually Lindy usually looks like he just found out that his wife was cheating on him.

[shrader]

I'm still trying to understand their decision to allow the Bills to run the clock down to 00:03 for the final play. At that point, Oakland still had two timeouts remaining. Once the Bills made it apparent that they weren't going to run another offensive play, Lane Kiffin should've stopped the clock. The Oakland offense could've easily had roughly 20 seconds to work with.

 

I also have to thank Oakland for throwing that incomplete pass on their final 3rd down attempt, stopping the clock for us.

[That Aud Smell]

There is a thread on TSW with many folks saying they liked the play. I didn't.

me neither ... but only because whitner failed to snap that guy's leg like a twig.

 

honest to god, i'm so sickened with the nfl's "cultural" direction that, given the chance, i'd probably have been be okay with an alternate ending where that punk-ass hood gets carted off the field, we get the 15-yarder on the kickoff and we lose the game as a result.

 

and don't think the league isn't aware that it's battling an emerging image problem on a lot of fronts -- stadium security forces are trying to crack down like never before, severe penalties are being handed out to first-time offenders (didn't a raiders db get tossed for twisting josh reed's facemask?).

[ROC Sabres]

didn't a raiders db get tossed for twisting josh reed's facemask?.

He actually did like a palm jab to his throat. Deserved to get tossed for that.

 

EDIT: I just read bucky's article about the bills win. Is it really that bad living in buffalo? I think I have read one article of his that was actually positive about buffalo in general.

[Knightrider]

- Lynch needs to watch the film of Freddie Jackson picking up the blitz. Other than that, he had a really good game. Ran hard, made a couple of catches and most importantly found his way into the endzone twice.

 

- The defense did a damn good job on Bush and McFadden...97 yards combined. Except for the safeties brain fart on the Higgins TD, the defense only gave up 160 yards or so.

 

That blitz pickup by Jackson may have been my favorite play in the first three quarters. Lynch needs to catch the ball better, too. If Edwards doesn't have the confidence that his outlet receiver is going to catch the ball, he's gonna get hesitate and get killed.

 

WRT the Higgins TD, I believe it was Poz, who went for the INT, covering. The late hit would have had to have been "malicious unnecessary roughness", I guess to get an ejection. I have no idea how you define malicious unless it means there was intent to injure. I don't think Whitner was looking to hurt Higgins.

 

If anyone deserves to be fired in Oakland, it has to be the defensive coordinator. He changed their style in the second and it killed them. I think every Bills fan realized the game was changing on the Lynch TD run. It seemed the entire offense was in the endzone. Oakland had been pushing the Bills around until that drive. I'm pretty sure even Josh Reed threw a block knocking his block backward into the endzone.

 

Given the circus that the Raiders are, I almost wondered if Al Davis might have some input in the defensive calls...

[Buffalo Fan]

Very early in his career, but James Hardy is starting to worry me. I saw him drop a pass that was RIGHT IN HIS HANDS. Just about everyone on the Bills stepped up, but I think they need more production out of the kid.

[Bmwolf21]

Very early in his career, but James Hardy is starting to worry me. I saw him drop a pass that was RIGHT IN HIS HANDS. Just about everyone on the Bills stepped up, but I think they need more production out of the kid.

He's three games into his NFL career, at a position where there is a steep learning curve. Most rookie WR's don't contribute a lot until year two or three. With the way Evans, Reed and Parrish are playing they are OK letting Hardy learn and work his way in.

 

He'll be fine.

[inkman]

Very early in his career, but James Hardy is starting to worry me. I saw him drop a pass that was RIGHT IN HIS HANDS. Just about everyone on the Bills stepped up, but I think they need more production out of the kid.

 

Meh...I saw Marshawn drop several passes yesterday. He needs to mature. Plenty of vets to lead the way, I bet by year 3 (unfortunately) he'll be a decent WR. Until then, it will be Josh Reed, and Roscoe pulling whatever weight Lee Evans can't carry.

[shrader]

After what he did last week you're going to be worried about Hardy? The kid has had 3 passes thrown to him in his entire career up to this point.

[PASabreFan]

He's three games into his NFL career, at a position where there is a steep learning curve. Most rookie WR's don't contribute a lot until year two or three. With the way Evans, Reed and Parrish are playing they are OK letting Hardy learn and work his way in.

 

He'll be fine.

 

Just wait till he's 28.

[That Aud Smell]

After what he did last week you're going to be worried about Hardy? The kid has had 3 passes thrown to him in his entire career up to this point.

and one was for a td.

 

rookie wideouts rarely make any impact -- it's year 2, sometimes 3, where they generally blossom, or fail.

 

besides, i'd be perfectly happy with a stat line on hardy at season's end that reads something like 15 receptions/100 yards/4 tds. (jump ball!)

[BetweenThePipes00]

I am not worried about Hardy ... Moulds was nothing but a kickoff return guy for two years basically. Granted, nowadays you need rookies to contribute more, but there is plenty of time for Hardy to work his way into the mix this season.

 

I have gone back and forth on the Whitner play ... my emotional reaction was, of course, I wish the kid had stopped so Whitner could have hit him harder. Then, I thought, dumb play ... kickoff returns are big-play chances for the guys the Bills have. But the fact is, the Raiders kickers really put a dent in the return game anyway ... Lechler's punts are in the air about 3 minutes, and Janikowski is also always getting good hang time and good distance. Odds are, there was not a big return hanging in the balance yesterday. (of course, I doubt Whitner thought about any of that ...)

 

Since we can look at it in hindsight ... he got away with it because of the offsetting penalty and they started at the 31 ...odds are it's a touchback if his flag counts ... so it would have cost them 11 yards? Eh, whatever ... if it kept the troops fired up a little, I can live with it.

[Bmwolf21]

Just wait till he's 28.

Won't matter. He could develop HoF numbers and you'd piss and moan about a drop here or there, and then try really really hard to convince everyone that you really really like him.

[Bmwolf21]

I am not worried about Hardy ... Moulds was nothing but a kickoff return guy for two years basically. Granted, nowadays you need rookies to contribute more, but there is plenty of time for Hardy to work his way into the mix this season.

Somebody mentioned it on TSW - it's nice to be in a position where we don't need to rely on our rookies to develop ahead of the curve. We can work McKelvin, Hardy et al into the lineup as they show they are ready, and are not forced to throw them into the fire and hope it works out OK.

[wjag]

I thought it was strange the Raiders didn't go for two on the last TD. If you make it you're up by 10 and the last second field goal only ties the score. Miss it and you force the Bills to go for two if they score the TD.

I completely missed that. It's an interesting gamble. What would you prefer to be: ahead by nine (safely require two scores), or ten (two safe scores but gambling), or eight (one score and a two point conversion)? We should as Mike Shanahan what he would do.

[Knightrider]

I completely missed that. It's an interesting gamble. What would you prefer to be: ahead by nine (safely require two scores), or ten (two safe scores but gambling), or eight (one score and a two point conversion)? We should as Mike Shanahan what he would do.

 

I go for the two with our defense and don't worry about a failed conversion. I kick if I have an ok defense and a good running game. I go for two if my defense plays like the Broncos' D.

[PASabreFan]

Won't matter. He could develop HoF numbers and you'd piss and moan about a drop here or there, and then try really really hard to convince everyone that you really really like him.

 

Let's see... what part of the analogy doesn't fit Miller?

 

I guess it's preseason for you too.

[Bmwolf21]

Let's see... what part of the analogy doesn't fit Miller?

 

I guess it's preseason for you too.

Took you almost two hours to come up with that retort, and I'm the one in preseason mode. :lol: OK, whatever.

 

Guess you also missed the word "COULD" huh? Maybe you need a thicker set of glasses. Or maybe not. Maybe you're happiest when you've got something to piss and moan about. I don't know.

 

Either way, I couldn't care less anymore. I'm not going to keep getting drawn into these pissing contests with you.