[OT] Bills discussion

[Guest Sloth]

I'm probably wrong here but I thought the idea behind drafting Hardy was to use his size. Toss him jump balls and let him use is size against smaller DB's. Hardy is in the NFL because of his size and if he can't use it he won't be around long. Teams will only put up with his off the field crap as long as he produces.

 

The point has been made again and again that the reason the Bills drafted him was his size. Quit repeating that. Also, when he "dropped" two passes, there was a DB in his face. It takes most rookie receivers time to adjust to the NFL. He'll learn how to use his size in the NFL.

Again, the perfect example is Eric Moulds. I'm sure you bashed him in his first two seasons and felt stupid when he emerged as one of the better receivers in the NFL.

[wjag]

On to Arizona...

 

"THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE"

 

[Guest Sloth]

For the Bills to beat Arizona they'll have to play hard from play number 1. Buffalo has played two rather mediocre, I think the Raiders were pretty good, though, teams. I agree that in the NFL any team can win, because each team is full of all-Americans, 1st team/2nd team conference players, etc... The Bills have to get their running game on the very first drive. Arizona has a good offense and if our offense is pulling off a number of 3 and outs, our defense will begin to slow down and give up points. I'm sure this has been a point being stressed since day one of this week.

[Chief Enabler]

I find a backhanded compliment around the NFL that 2 of the 4 teams the Bills have beat fired their head coaches :unsure:

 

Apparently, if you cant beat the Bills, you're fired. :thumbsup:

[wjag]

For the Bills to beat Arizona they'll have to play hard from play number 1. Buffalo has played two rather mediocre, I think the Raiders were pretty good, though, teams. I agree that in the NFL any team can win, because each team is full of all-Americans, 1st team/2nd team conference players, etc... The Bills have to get their running game on the very first drive. Arizona has a good offense and if our offense is pulling off a number of 3 and outs, our defense will begin to slow down and give up points. I'm sure this has been a point being stressed since day one of this week.

Don't disagree. Run the ball, consume clock, get their defense on the field and keep yours off the field. That's a prescription for EVERY NFL team, EVERY game. Having said that, it is especially true this week. Arizona has two very good receivers who will be roaming free a lot this weekend. A true push from the defensive line is going to be medically necessary. Keeping Warner, Boldin (if he plays), and Fitzgerald on the bench provides the best chance for winning. Fitzgerald is a hell of a receiver. He'd be the toast of the league if he played for NY or DAL. Our DBs should be seriously challenged this weekend.

 

Last weekend against the Jets was just one of those games that happens periodically in the NFL. Let's hope it was an aberration and not an indication of how good Arizona can be offensively. I don't think our offense is designed for a track meet.

[deluca67]

The point has been made again and again that the reason the Bills drafted him was his size. Quit repeating that. Also, when he "dropped" two passes, there was a DB in his face. It takes most rookie receivers time to adjust to the NFL. He'll learn how to use his size in the NFL.

Again, the perfect example is Eric Moulds. I'm sure you bashed him in his first two seasons and felt stupid when he emerged as one of the better receivers in the NFL.

The big differnce between the two was that Moulds could catch the ball. Moulds' problem was understanding the offense and the college to pro transition. I'm willing to give Hardy slack on that. It's his inability to catch the football, which does change from college to pro, that is the concern. Just because Moulds didn't burn up the NFL right off the bat doesn't make him a "perfect example". The reasons for the slow starts were not the same. Moulds still retained his basic football skills. You can make as many excuses for Hardy as you would like. It not like Hardy has caught a few and dropped a few. He has caught two and has liked like a mess on several.

[Guest Sloth]

The big differnce between the two was that Moulds could catch the ball. Moulds' problem was understanding the offense and the college to pro transition. I'm willing to give Hardy slack on that. It's his inability to catch the football, which does change from college to pro, that is the concern. Just because Moulds didn't burn up the NFL right off the bat doesn't make him a "perfect example". The reasons for the slow starts were not the same. Moulds still retained his basic football skills. You can make as many excuses for Hardy as you would like. It not like Hardy has caught a few and dropped a few. He has caught two and has liked like a mess on several.

 

Hardy has had one legitimate dropped pass. You tried to say 5. Can you count? Are you one of the fans that over exaggerate and don't pay attention to what is going on? Eric Mould dropped a NUMBER of passes, during his first year in the NFL. People, seems a lot like you, were saying Moulds was a waste of pick, due to failure to adjust to the NFL and the passes he DID drop in his first two seasons as a Bill. Moulds is a perfect example for rookies, and you need to develop a sense of patience. Hardy's TD catch against Jacksonville showed what he is capable of.

[Chief Enabler]

Don't disagree. Run the ball, consume clock, get their defense on the field and keep yours off the field. That's a prescription for EVERY NFL team, EVERY game. Having said that, it is especially true this week. Arizona has two very good receivers who will be roaming free a lot this weekend. A true push from the defensive line is going to be medically necessary. Keeping Warner, Boldin (if he plays), and Fitzgerald on the bench provides the best chance for winning. Fitzgerald is a hell of a receiver. He'd be the toast of the league if he played for NY or DAL. Our DBs should be seriously challenged this weekend.

 

Last weekend against the Jets was just one of those games that happens periodically in the NFL. Let's hope it was an aberration and not an indication of how good Arizona can be offensively. I don't think our offense is designed for a track meet.

I agree. Regardless of the time clock, Arizona will still be in a position to run the shotgun for the entire 4th qtr on us. The defense must adjust into a 7 or 8 DB scenario at some point either rushing 3 or 4 on Warner.

 

After listening to Troy Browns' retirement all week; I would suggest putting Josh Reed on defense for giggles this week. :D

[inkman]

Hardy has had one legitimate dropped pass. You tried to say 5. Can you count? Are you one of the fans that over exaggerate and don't pay attention to what is going on?

 

Hardy may have only one official drop but he's been thrown to a bunch and these are what I recall from last game:

 

1) On a deep out pattern, Edwards placed the ball perfectly aong the sideline where only Hardy could catch it. Hardy was attempting to locate the ball in the air, he twisted around stumbled a bit and ended up about 3 yards from where the ball hit the ground. Doesn't count as a drop but it was one of the worst diplays of ball awareness that I've seen an NFL player demonstrate.

 

2) A jump ball in the end zone. Edwards launches a ball to the midpoint of the endzone, Hardy is matched up against a much smaller DB. The emphasis on a jump ball for a receiver is to meet the ball at your highest point in the air. Hardy fails to even jump and the ball falls harmlessly to the turf.

 

3) A second jump ball in the endzone. Similar placement to the first jump ball, Hardy never establishes position on the smaller DB and he knocks the ball dwon before James has a chance to make a play.

 

 

None of those counted as drops but they were horribley played by Hardy. I wouldn't expect him to come down with all those grabs but I do expect him to haul in at least one. :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

Hardy has had one legitimate dropped pass. You tried to say 5. Can you count? Are you one of the fans that over exaggerate and don't pay attention to what is going on? Eric Mould dropped a NUMBER of passes, during his first year in the NFL. People, seems a lot like you, were saying Moulds was a waste of pick, due to failure to adjust to the NFL and the passes he DID drop in his first two seasons as a Bill. Moulds is a perfect example for rookies, and you need to develop a sense of patience. Hardy's TD catch against Jacksonville showed what he is capable of.

LOL. To look at life through Bills colored glasses. The TD catch was nice. Luckily the refs on the field blew call. If you think Hardy has only dropped one pass then there is no point in continuing this topic since you are incapable of having a reasonable conversation. I will end on this thought. In the NFL if the ball hits a receivers hands it's his job to catch it. It maybe high, it maybe on the wrong shoulder and it maybe with a defender on his back. The catch needs to be made. It is rare that a receiver is wide open in the NFL. Hardy has shown zero ability to create space or separation. He has had several catchable balls thrown to him this season that need to be caught. Right now the Bills have only two healthy legit receivers in Evans and Reed. If Hardy can't even contribute a catch or two per game then the Bills need to find a veteran receiver that can give them at least something.

[deluca67]

It was, but then since NFL change the ruling on the push-out for when a receiver goes up for the ball so his size is a wash in that sense. So he's only really gonna be a threat on mobile routes since he's still not using his size to his advantage other than being able to reach straight up further than anyone else.

If that's true and Hardy's size is negated? Then the Bills made a huge mistake in drafting him. There were other options at the position that didn't have the size but also didn't have the character issues.

[shrader]

Hardy may have only one official drop but he's been thrown to a bunch and these are what I recall from last game:

 

1) On a deep out pattern, Edwards placed the ball perfectly aong the sideline where only Hardy could catch it. Hardy was attempting to locate the ball in the air, he twisted around stumbled a bit and ended up about 3 yards from where the ball hit the ground. Doesn't count as a drop but it was one of the worst diplays of ball awareness that I've seen an NFL player demonstrate.

 

2) A jump ball in the end zone. Edwards launches a ball to the midpoint of the endzone, Hardy is matched up against a much smaller DB. The emphasis on a jump ball for a receiver is to meet the ball at your highest point in the air. Hardy fails to even jump and the ball falls harmlessly to the turf.

 

3) A second jump ball in the endzone. Similar placement to the first jump ball, Hardy never establishes position on the smaller DB and he knocks the ball dwon before James has a chance to make a play.

None of those counted as drops but they were horribley played by Hardy. I wouldn't expect him to come down with all those grabs but I do expect him to haul in at least one. :thumbsup:

 

I don't remember the specifics, but didn't the DB have Hardy's left arm pinned down on one of those endzone jump balls?

[tom webster]

It is way too early to tell if Hardy is going to Chris Burkett, Andre Reed or somewhere in between. All the drops can be attributed to having to think too much about what he is doing. Whether he is going to develop into a top flight receiver or not will only be answered over time.

For now his one touchdown pass ( and unless you have s shot that no one else has seen will go with the ref's call) gives him as big an impact as any other rookie receiver other than Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson and his impact has been almost as much negative as positive. Besides, Royal and Jackson weren't the type of receiver they needed.

 

Malcom Kelly 1 for 6

Devin Thoomas 2 for 12

Donnie Avery 6 for 46 and 1 rushing TD

Limas Sweed inactive

[inkman]

I don't remember the specifics, but didn't the DB have Hardy's left arm pinned down on one of those endzone jump balls?

 

That may have been the case but Hardy has the size and I'm assuming strength to ward off a guy 6" shorter and 30 pounds lighter.

[shrader]

That may have been the case but Hardy has the size and I'm assuming strength to ward off a guy 6" shorter and 30 pounds lighter.

 

Depending on the timing, yes.

[deluca67]

It is way too early to tell if Hardy is going to Chris Burkett, Andre Reed or somewhere in between. All the drops can be attributed to having to think too much about what he is doing. Whether he is going to develop into a top flight receiver or not will only be answered over time.

For now his one touchdown pass ( and unless you have s shot that no one else has seen will go with the ref's call) gives him as big an impact as any other rookie receiver other than Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson and his impact has been almost as much negative as positive. Besides, Royal and Jackson weren't the type of receiver they needed.

 

Malcom Kelly 1 for 6

Devin Thoomas 2 for 12

Donnie Avery 6 for 46 and 1 rushing TD

Limas Sweed inactive

I think we are all aware of the NFL ref's policy to make a call and let replay sort it out (except in San Diego's case). If the Ref would have called out, replay would have not over turned it. The old inconclusive replay. I have the game on Tivo. When they showed the first replay he looked out. I looked it over several times and each time he looks out.

 

The issue I have with Hardy isn't about overall production. I never expected him to be a game changer. It is that on some of the attempts he has looked like he never played the position before. There was the sideline pass that Ink mentioned where he looked like an 7 year old outfielder looking for a pop fly. I think it was in the Raider game where he attempted catch the ball back handed. The Bills made attempts against the Rams to get Hardy involved. I was shocked, as I am sure the Bills were, at how bad Hardy looked.

[Bmwolf21]

Hardy may have only one official drop but he's been thrown to a bunch and these are what I recall from last game:

 

1) On a deep out pattern, Edwards placed the ball perfectly aong the sideline where only Hardy could catch it. Hardy was attempting to locate the ball in the air, he twisted around stumbled a bit and ended up about 3 yards from where the ball hit the ground. Doesn't count as a drop but it was one of the worst diplays of ball awareness that I've seen an NFL player demonstrate.

 

2) A jump ball in the end zone. Edwards launches a ball to the midpoint of the endzone, Hardy is matched up against a much smaller DB. The emphasis on a jump ball for a receiver is to meet the ball at your highest point in the air. Hardy fails to even jump and the ball falls harmlessly to the turf.

 

3) A second jump ball in the endzone. Similar placement to the first jump ball, Hardy never establishes position on the smaller DB and he knocks the ball dwon before James has a chance to make a play.

None of those counted as drops but they were horribley played by Hardy. I wouldn't expect him to come down with all those grabs but I do expect him to haul in at least one. :thumbsup:

I'm not going to defend him on 2 & 3, but there's no way I'm calling that deep out by Edwards "perfectly placed." It looked a heck of a lot more like either "well underthrown" or miscommunication/not in sync between a second-year QB and a rookie WR.

 

I don't remember the specifics, but didn't the DB have Hardy's left arm pinned down on one of those endzone jump balls?

Now that you mention it, that's true.

[shrader]

Now that you mention it, that's true.

 

I remember it happening twice in the first quarter and I wanted the PI call. I think the other was Evans. But then again, Greer seems to be the master of that move, so I really can't complain about the lack of a call.

[Guest Sloth]

LOL. To look at life through Bills colored glasses. The TD catch was nice. Luckily the refs on the field blew call. If you think Hardy has only dropped one pass then there is no point in continuing this topic since you are incapable of having a reasonable conversation. I will end on this thought. In the NFL if the ball hits a receivers hands it's his job to catch it. It maybe high, it maybe on the wrong shoulder and it maybe with a defender on his back. The catch needs to be made. It is rare that a receiver is wide open in the NFL. Hardy has shown zero ability to create space or separation. He has had several catchable balls thrown to him this season that need to be caught. Right now the Bills have only two healthy legit receivers in Evans and Reed. If Hardy can't even contribute a catch or two per game then the Bills need to find a veteran receiver that can give them at least something.

 

Through this entire debate you and I have been having I've been lmao. Of course if a ball hits a receivers hands, unless a db is all over him and PI should be called, it should be caught. I never said anything against that. Although, it did happen to Hardy more than one time. I can't believe you continue to use this Tivo argument. Do you have replays that the NFL does not? Quit trying to use this "tivo" agrugment. Do you have bifocal vision? Shiit, even the commentator's said Hardy was in bounds. FOR THE LAST TIME, it will take Hardy time to adjust. I'll I'm trying to get across is that it takes rookie receivers time. The Bills DID NOT INTEND to use him a lot this year. That was said earlier this season. Injuries have changed that, but his adjustment process will still take time. I agree the Bills need to sign a veteran receiver. END OF DEBATE!

[frisky]

Anybody else see that blurb on GR about the Jacobs' interest in the Bills? I also heard during the summer on XM during one of the hockey shows that it's been rumored that he's been shopping the Broons around. However, they didn't have a name to the source so I'm not sure if it's Fischler again. I would have mixed feelings about it. Ralph being 90 and all he could just about go anytime so that if there were any truth to the rumor having someone local to help step in would be great. However, seeing how the Broons have been going the last long time and the complaints from Broons fans about them, I'm have some reservations. But, at least, Hamister's name isn't floating around.

[LabattBlue]

I like the Bills this week in a shootout...Buffalo 31 Arizona 27.

[wjag]

I like the Bills this week in a shootout...Buffalo 31 Arizona 27.

It takes a few games every season to gauge a team. I think the next two are those. Long plane ride, wounded team with great offensive potential. Then SD with the games best RB and a decent offense. How they play in those two will go a long way to how much I believe in this team. But THE statement game and the one that will put me in the decidely believe category is AT New England. They win THAT game and I believe.

 

Oh and I do feel pretty good about their chances this weekend. In fact, I think they are due for a dominant performance. This matchup just might fill the bill. You know the stadium will be filled with Bills fans.

[Guest Sloth]

It takes a few games every season to gauge a team. I think the next two are those. Long plane ride, wounded team with great offensive potential. Then SD with the games best RB and a decent offense. How they play in those two will go a long way to how much I believe in this team. But THE statement game and the one that will put me in the decidely believe category is AT New England. They win THAT game and I believe.

 

Oh and I do feel pretty good about their chances this weekend. In fact, I think they are due for a dominant performance. This matchup just might fill the bill. You know the stadium will be filled with Bills fans.

 

If the Bills win, I think the NFL, media, fans, myself included, etc...will begin to recogize them as legitimate team. I know ESPN has them at number 4, but I don't think people truly see them as a number 4. I think whatever happens on Sunday will have a HUGE impact on the season. Going into the bye week 5-0 would be incredible. You don't want your team to go into bye week w/ a loss. A win on Sunday would make Buffalo a legit team.

[nobody]

Lee Evans signs new deal with the Bills!

 

 

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6710

[nobody]

BILLS EXTEND EVANS

Posted by Mike Florio on October 2, 2008, 5:43 p.m.

The 4-0 Buffalo Bills have taken steps to ensure that one of their key pieces will be around for a while.

 

Per Adam Schefter of NFL Network, the Bills have signed receiver Lee Evans to a four-year, $37.5 million extension.

 

The deal includes $18.25 million in guaranteed money, and he will earn $27 million over the first three years of the deal.

 

The $9 million average for three seasons puts him in the upper range of the receiver pay grade. Larry Fitzgerald of the Cardinals leads the way with his four-year, $40 million deal.