2025 NHL team valuations

[mjd1001]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/25/cnbcs-official-nhl-team-valuations-2025.html

Sabres 31st, ahead of Columbus.  I'm a bit surprised, yeah Columbus has Ohio state,but the Blue Jackets are in a bigger city, have a much, much nicer arena and arena district, and have no pro competition in their market.

Of course the market size and fan support drive these ratings, but looking at the list the building/facility and how good it is/how much revenue it gernerates seems to be a pretty big factor also.

Plus, something surprising, for all we have heard over the years about Canadian cities not being able to compete on a level footing with US cities in the NHL due to taxes and currency, it looks like the Canadian teams are increasing, something drastically, their local TV revenue, while many of the US teams have that going down.  The Canadian teams are bringing in a lot more money that way than their US counterparts. (the Rangers took a cut to their local revenue DOWN to $35 million per year, while Montreal's new deal has them getting $70-$75m per year.)

I know they have a new Arena, but can someone explain to me how Edmonton led the league in Revenue, ahead of the Rangers, Boston, and even Toronto?

Edited 10 hours ago by mjd1001

[St. Pete Gogolak]

Remind me. How much did Terry pay for the team?

[EM88]

The Buffalo Sabres have a bad building, have not made the playoffs in over a decade, and face many of their Canadian fans not crossing the border as much.  Yet there are still 4 teams with less revenue than they have, along with about 1/2 of the league within 20%.

If the team can upgrade their building in a meaningful way and have a playoff season or two in order to facilitate some fan support, this may actually be a hockey market that is pretty good to support a team in todays market.

[mjd1001]

Just now, St. Pete Gogolak said:

Remind me. How much did Terry pay for the team?

I think it was about $180 million....Now worth $1.42 billion with very little debt.  They are worth about $60 million more than last year.

He and the team can afford to invest a bit more into it.

[kas23]

22 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it was about $180 million....Now worth $1.42 billion with very little debt.  They are worth about $60 million more than last year.

He and the team can afford to invest a bit more into it.

And this is probably why he does little to improve the team. He does nothing and the value keeps going up and up. That said, if he sold the team, he would never get that amount from anyone locally.

[pastajoe]

52 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/25/cnbcs-official-nhl-team-valuations-2025.html

Sabres 31st, ahead of Columbus.  I'm a bit surprised, yeah Columbus has Ohio state,but the Blue Jackets are in a bigger city, have a much, much nicer arena and arena district, and have no pro competition in their market.

Of course the market size and fan support drive these ratings, but looking at the list the building/facility and how good it is/how much revenue it gernerates seems to be a pretty big factor also.

Plus, something surprising, for all we have heard over the years about Canadian cities not being able to compete on a level footing with US cities in the NHL due to taxes and currency, it looks like the Canadian teams are increasing, something drastically, their local TV revenue, while many of the US teams have that going down.  The Canadian teams are bringing in a lot more money that way than their US counterparts. (the Rangers took a cut to their local revenue DOWN to $35 million per year, while Montreal's new deal has them getting $70-$75m per year.)

I know they have a new Arena, but can someone explain to me how Edmonton led the league in Revenue, ahead of the Rangers, Boston, and even Toronto?

Edmonton likely leads in revenue because of their new tv deal. It will change next year when the new deals start for Toronto and Montreal.

[tom webster]

I like how they stress the word “official” like these numbers are actually real. 
While there might be some truth in there, the numbers are just educated guesses.

All that being said, I do believe that these franchises are a lot more profitable than what the owners would have you believe.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

The Buffalo Sabres have a bad building, have not made the playoffs in over a decade, and face many of their Canadian fans not crossing the border as much.  Yet there are still 4 teams with less revenue than they have, along with about 1/2 of the league within 20%.

If the team can upgrade their building in a meaningful way and have a playoff season or two in order to facilitate some fan support, this may actually be a hockey market that is pretty good to support a team in todays market.

I think just winning again, being a legit playoff team and eventually a Cup contender fixes everything, even with the crappy facility.  The hockey market is good just by the fact it is surviving. Get a winning team and they god from survive to thrive.  
 

Anyone have any real numbers on the Canadian fan attendance changes since the T2 era started? 

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

The Buffalo Sabres have a bad building, have not made the playoffs in over a decade, and face many of their Canadian fans not crossing the border as much.  Yet there are still 4 teams with less revenue than they have, along with about 1/2 of the league within 20%.

If the team can upgrade their building in a meaningful way and have a playoff season or two in order to facilitate some fan support, this may actually be a hockey market that is pretty good to support a team in todays market.

I give Pegula credit for one thing, a new stadium. Of course, you need to win at the casino or the lottery to afford a seat, but hey, we’ll always have a crumbling Rich Stadium as a fall back plan 😆

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I give Pegula credit for one thing, a new stadium. Of course, you need to win at the casino or the lottery to afford a seat, but hey, we’ll always have a crumbling Rich Stadium as a fall back plan 😆

I do sorta... Pegula needed 2 things to break his way for that. First he needed Hochul to be governor with that money from the Seneca's in hand and second I think you needed a Josh Allen level QB to give everyone that warm fuzzy feeling. Glad it is happening because the Ralph was rough. I have been in college stadiums far nicer. 

For the Arena, I am curious what their report will find. Can they simply upgrade what is there or is it really such a dump it cannot be fixed. Pegula loves himself some deferred maintenance and it caught up to them. 

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, pastajoe said:

Edmonton likely leads in revenue because of their new tv deal. It will change next year when the new deals start for Toronto and Montreal.

I don't think you can underestimate the McDavid factor. There has to be some cross marketing deals the Oilers take advantage of. Oilers fans travel well. Right up there with Leaf and Rangers fans. They also have some history. History seems to be important to valuation. All 6 of the original 6 teams are in the top 10 in valuation. Building generations of fans helps over time among other things. It's interesting to see how low the 2 time Stanly cup winner Panthers are. Even though they are a great team they either don't have the flashy player to make the highlight recaps or the team history to support the demand for the product. 

As far as over all team valuations go you would think there would be a point where they would top out but I am not so sure. I recently read a book titled Rock and Roll is here to pay. It was published around 1975-76 and went over the economics of the music industry from early in the century to that time period. What was thought of as a lot of money then seems so quaint right now. A rock and roll band might get 20 grand to play a show at the Aud back then. The point that struck me though was how human economics were evolving. No longer needing every cent for food, clothing, shelter, and transportation the US population slowly began to have money to spend on records, stereos and concerts. The obvious parallel is to sporting events. Tickets that coast 100's to thousands of dollars are now the norm to a portion of the population. The economic cycles will stunt the growth I would think, but the demand is there.    

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it was about $180 million....Now worth $1.42 billion with very little debt.  They are worth about $60 million more than last year.

He and the team can afford to invest a bit more into it.

 

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I like how they stress the word “official” like these numbers are actually real. 
While there might be some truth in there, the numbers are just educated guesses.

All that being said, I do believe that these franchises are a lot more profitable than what the owners would have you believe.

Agree with Tommy Webs here. And to what MJD is saying, think about Pegula owning this team for 15yrs. He invested 200 million initially (I am using easy math) and it is now worth around 1.4 billion. A normal investment doubles every 7years (roughly) so that would be 2 doubles for that 200 million or 800million, but instead he has an asset worth almost double that. That is great ROI. And back to Websters point, let's say Pegula is losing money, first that would be a big tax write-off but then let's do fun math and say he loses 10million a year on the Sabres which I highly doubt. So to date he has fake lost 150million in real dollars but his asset is still worth almost 3.5times what he paid for it. 

Pegula even if he were losing actual cash each year on the Sabres (again, I agree with Webster that this is doubtful), he would still be up because the value of the team has gone up. Terry can take out low or no interest loans against the value of that asset for cash when he needs it. On top of that, we know the Bills are making money and will make a ton more money once the new stadium opens. 

The super wealthy view sports team as an asset, like stock in a company. They are currently a great asset to have because they are almost finite (sure expansion happens now and again but not really) and their value goes up every year with merch sales, price increases, revenue sharing, etc... A roughly 350% increase in 15yrs is pretty damn good. On top of all that, you have a shiny toy that when it wins, you get to brag to your rich buddies about and even when it loses, you are still 1 of 32 owners of this thing. Pegula can lose a few million a year on the Sabres because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter at all to him. I do hope, that once the financial stress from the new stadium is behind him (he knows the final cost and has it paid), he starts opening up for both teams a bit more. Still, the guy is worth around 9 billion dollars with about 3/4 of that worth tied up in the Bills and Sabres. He's got more money than God. 

[xzy89c1]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Agree with Tommy Webs here. And to what MJD is saying, think about Pegula owning this team for 15yrs. He invested 200 million initially (I am using easy math) and it is now worth around 1.4 billion. A normal investment doubles every 7years (roughly) so that would be 2 doubles for that 200 million or 800million, but instead he has an asset worth almost double that. That is great ROI. And back to Websters point, let's say Pegula is losing money, first that would be a big tax write-off but then let's do fun math and say he loses 10million a year on the Sabres which I highly doubt. So to date he has fake lost 150million in real dollars but his asset is still worth almost 3.5times what he paid for it. 

Pegula even if he were losing actual cash each year on the Sabres (again, I agree with Webster that this is doubtful), he would still be up because the value of the team has gone up. Terry can take out low or no interest loans against the value of that asset for cash when he needs it. On top of that, we know the Bills are making money and will make a ton more money once the new stadium opens. 

The super wealthy view sports team as an asset, like stock in a company. They are currently a great asset to have because they are almost finite (sure expansion happens now and again but not really) and their value goes up every year with merch sales, price increases, revenue sharing, etc... A roughly 350% increase in 15yrs is pretty damn good. On top of all that, you have a shiny toy that when it wins, you get to brag to your rich buddies about and even when it loses, you are still 1 of 32 owners of this thing. Pegula can lose a few million a year on the Sabres because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter at all to him. I do hope, that once the financial stress from the new stadium is behind him (he knows the final cost and has it paid), he starts opening up for both teams a bit more. Still, the guy is worth around 9 billion dollars with about 3/4 of that worth tied up in the Bills and Sabres. He's got more money than God. 

A normal investment does not have you losing money every year though. From the time he bought the team to 2019 the team lost 300 million. There is not a scenario where the sabres are profitable. Complain about Pegula at your own risk. If he sells it will be to someone looking to move the team.

[tom webster]

2 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

A normal investment does not have you losing money every year though. From the time he bought the team to 2019 the team lost 300 million. There is not a scenario where the sabres are profitable. Complain about Pegula at your own risk. If he sells it will be to someone looking to move the team.

They aren’t losing $300M in actual dollars in any scenario you can lay out.

[Scottysabres]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I do sorta... Pegula needed 2 things to break his way for that. First he needed Hochul to be governor with that money from the Seneca's in hand and second I think you needed a Josh Allen level QB to give everyone that warm fuzzy feeling. Glad it is happening because the Ralph was rough. I have been in college stadiums far nicer. 

For the Arena, I am curious what their report will find. Can they simply upgrade what is there or is it really such a dump it cannot be fixed. Pegula loves himself some deferred maintenance and it caught up to them. 

Just put a tarp over Rich, throw up some new Jumbotrons around the stadium, and vu la, you have the largest NHL arena in the league.

Innovation!!! 😂

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

A normal investment does not have you losing money every year though. From the time he bought the team to 2019 the team lost 300 million. There is not a scenario where the sabres are profitable. Complain about Pegula at your own risk. If he sells it will be to someone looking to move the team.

If the Sabres are losing as much money as you claim (not challenging you on that issue), then a factor in the supposedly inadequate return is the product that he has provided since he bought the team. You don't think that if the Sabres were a serious team during much of his tenure the revenue flow wouldn't be a lot higher? In any business endeavor, a poor product is usually not going to be as profitable or even profitable. And when you are in the entertainment business, the quality of the production certainly is a factor when the receipts are tabulated. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

A normal investment does not have you losing money every year though. From the time he bought the team to 2019 the team lost 300 million. There is not a scenario where the sabres are profitable. Complain about Pegula at your own risk. If he sells it will be to someone looking to move the team.

Where does this number come from? 

And he isn't losing money, the value of the team is far outpacing the cash lost. If you spend 10 bucks on a something but it costs you 3 bucks to maintain each year, and 10 years from now it is worth 100 bucks. You didn't lose 30 dollars you gained 60 overall.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, tom webster said:

I like how they stress the word “official” like these numbers are actually real. 
While there might be some truth in there, the numbers are just educated guesses.

All that being said, I do believe that these franchises are a lot more profitable than what the owners would have you believe.

There is a reason the Green Bay Packers are the only major publicly owned sports team in the US.  Private companies don't have to show their full books to anyone but the IRS.

With the players in the NHL getting 1/2 of HRR, we can calculate out what total HRR was (give or take a few $MM for not knowing exactly how much goes into insurance/pension funds) any of the last 20 or so years for the league, but not for individual teams.

Forbes and the others that make these estimates of team value take knowns - ticket prices, concession prices, streaming prices, advertising rates and a lot of semi-knowns - TV contracts, tickets sold, concessions purchased, labor rates (for items other than player salaries), utility rates, tax rates, game related expenses, etc. and a few other items like reported prices for franchise sales and expansion fees and then project out estimates of what these are currently and in the future, and assume a discount rate - then voila (it doesn't just mean "your french fries are ready" 😉 ) you have the "official" value of what every single team is worth.  And it's ALL just semi-educated guessing.

 

And agree the teams are more profitable than the owners let on to them being - it's tougher to get concessions on utility/tax rates and to get municipalities to pay for maintenance/amenities when you're effectively printing money (ala the NFL) or even merely "comfortable" (ala the NHL and the other major sports leagues).

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, EM88 said:

The Buffalo Sabres have a bad building, have not made the playoffs in over a decade, and face many of their Canadian fans not crossing the border as much.  Yet there are still 4 teams with less revenue than they have, along with about 1/2 of the league within 20%.

If the team can upgrade their building in a meaningful way and have a playoff season or two in order to facilitate some fan support, this may actually be a hockey market that is pretty good to support a team in todays market.

I go to games all the time and I never feel like the building is a dump. It's a hockey arena. It does the job. I've been to other arenas, some nicer than others. TD Garden in Boston is nice but that's mostly due to the upgrades outside the arena. Tampa is great with their outdoor patios. The Panthers barn is meh and in a terrible location.

Edited 3 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[PASabreFan]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I go to games all the time and I never feel like the building is a dump. It's a hockey arena. It does the job. I've been to other arenas, some nicer than others. TD Garden in Boston is nice but that's mostly due to the upgrades outside the arena. Tampa is great with their outdoor patios. The Panthers barn is meh and in a terrible location.

Write down the date lol. We agree. I have no issue with the arena. I SMH at people saying we need a new one or need to put 100s of millions into the old one. The pavilion could use a rethinking. Same for Alumni Plaza. The curb appeal out front is meh. That's 10 grand tops lol.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I go to games all the time and I never feel like the building is a dump. It's a hockey arena. It does the job. I've been to other arenas, some nicer than others. TD Garden in Boston is nice but that's mostly due to the upgrades outside the arena. Tampa is great with their outdoor patios. The Panthers barn is meh and in a terrible location.

Personally, liked the Swamp Cats rink.  But the location is fine.  15 minutes outside Lauderdale and across the road from an absolutely MASSIVE mall.  Avoiding Miami isn't really an issue IMHO, though realize that sentiment won't be held universally.

Agree that the MMArena isn't a dump.  The concourses are IMHO too narrow, and there isn't much if anything they'll do about that, but they're at least 50% bigger than they were in the Aud.  And the concourses being narrow is not a reason to tear it down and build a new one.

There are very likely upgrades that could be made fairly inexpensively.

Know though that back pre-Covid, when they were looking at modifications to the arena they were talking about MAJOR changes - things like converting at least the seating in the lower half of 105 and 117 and possibly all that seating into small tables with stools / chairs with service to the tables which would significantly alter the seating capacity and how the game is presented.  Hope they never go forward with that plan; but they have been thinking big and outside the box in the past.  And if they do stuff like that, could easily see their plans costing $0.25-0.5B.  And have no idea who'd be paying for that though expect ownership doesn't want to be on the hook for it.

[spndnchz]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Personally, liked the Swamp Cats rink.  But the location is fine.  15 minutes outside Lauderdale and across the road from an absolutely MASSIVE mall.  Avoiding Miami isn't really an issue IMHO, though realize that sentiment won't be held universally.

Agree{{{-- that the MMArena isn't a dump.  The concourses are IMHO too narrow, and there isn't much if anything they'll do about that, but they're at least 50% bigger than they were in the Aud.  And the concourses being narrow is not a reason to tear it down and build a new one.

There are very likely upgrades that could be made fairly inexpensively.

Know though that back pre-Covid, when they were looking at modifications to the arena they were talking about MAJOR changes - things like converting at least the seating in the lower half of 105 and 117 and possibly all that seating into small tables with stools / chairs with service to the tables which would significantly alter the seating capacity and how the game is presented.  Hope they never go forward with that plan; but they have been thinking big and outside the box in the past.  And if they do stuff like that, could easily see their plans costing $0.25-0.5B.  And have no idea who'd be paying for that though expect ownership doesn't want to be on the hook for it.

Agree{{{-- that the MMArena isn't a dump.  The concourses are IMHO too narrow,
 

we could all sit outside the ice and shoot the *****. Now it’s all beer stands, no tables to grab a beer and beef

 half the fun is hanging out with friends 

[mjd1001]

22 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

Agree{{{-- that the MMArena isn't a dump.  The concourses are IMHO too narrow,
 

we could all sit outside the ice and shoot the *****. Now it’s all beer stands, no tables to grab a beer and beef

 half the fun is hanging out with friends 

I guess we are going to disagree on that.

Is it a dump compared to the Aud at the end of its days? or the Boston Garden? Or MSG before the latest renovation? No its not that bad.

But compared to a few other places I have been to, yeah, its a dump.

Uncomfortable, worn out seats (when I sat down in our set, the seat 'wobbled a bit as did the seats to the left and right of me, and I'm not a huge guy either), pitted concrete, bathrooms with either no hot or no cold water (someone told me this MIGHT have been fixed since last time I was there?)  Crowded concourses, no convenient place to meet and talk to friends that might be at the same game you are...going up to the higher levels on a game close to a sellout and waiting on that escalator...among other things.

The Bathrooms always seem dirty and disgusting. Yeah, I know this is an arena with 15,000+ people at most games, they are going to get dirty, but the last game I was at out of town in Columbus, the ones there seemed to be 100x better.

Yeah, for simply watching the game on the ice, once you are in your set, its ok.  But I can do that at home. I actually look forward to going to other arenas around the country not just for the event, but for the arena, the things to see there, places to meet up.  The last time I was at the KBC for a game, I was there for the game only, in spite of the building.

Edited 1 hour ago by mjd1001

[xzy89c1]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Where does this number come from? 

And he isn't losing money, the value of the team is far outpacing the cash lost. If you spend 10 bucks on a something but it costs you 3 bucks to maintain each year, and 10 years from now it is worth 100 bucks. You didn't lose 30 dollars you gained 60 overall.

you are confused. You would have to sell the asset to realize the gain. 

[Weave]

Does anyone remember what the value of the Sabres was compared to what Pegula paid for it?