The 5 headed Goalie Monster - What is the solution?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Our goaltending has been crap for years, but so far this season Lyon and now Ellis, in his first NHL game, have played well enough for the Sabres to win most night.  Ellis was particularly strong last night making four or five critical saves.  In Rochester is “key” acquisition Levi and late signee Georgiev.  Levi is off to a bit of a slow start in Rochester in 2 starts, but has been excellent there the last 2 seasons and Georgiev is what he is and was solid in his one start so far.

Last but not least is UPL. Adams spent big money on UPL after his one good pro season and he is now on a rehab assignment.  He was very good in his first rehab start in Rochester. 

Adams has a very tough decision to make once UPL’s rehab assignment is over.  If he waives either Lyon or Ellis, they will immediately be claimed.  Ellis has an excellent minor league record and looked very much like an NHL goalie last night.  I know StL was unhappy that the Sabres claimed him.  Lyon is a proven NHL vet who was a starter the last 2 seasons in Det and has looked solid so far this season.  I do think both have some trade value, but not much if rival GMs think Adams is backed into a corner.

However, Adams is bound to UPL. He gave him the big contract.  Will he really waive or trade UPL and run with Lyon and Ellis?

I honestly believe that UPL might be the worst of the 5 goalies.  Given his injury history and big contract, I would do anything I could to get out from under his deal.  That’s me, not Adams.  I believe an Ellis/Lyon combo is an upgrade over UPL and having two experienced guys in Rochester should be sufficient if either gets hurt.  

My guess is Adams does nothing immediately.  I suspect Adams will carry all 3 goalies and play them all for a few weeks.  This might be necessary to showcase that UPL is healthy and help his trade value, but given how bad our goaltending has been, Adams will want to keep his options open.  

What do you think will be the ultimate resolution?  

 

[Drag0nDan]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Our goaltending has been crap for years, but so far this season Lyon and now Ellis, in his first NHL game, have played well enough for the Sabres to win most night.  Ellis was particularly strong last night making four or five critical saves.  In Rochester is “key” acquisition Levi and late signee Georgiev.  Levi is off to a bit of a slow start in Rochester in 2 starts, but has been excellent there the last 2 seasons and Georgiev is what he is and was solid in his one start so far.

Last but not least is UPL. Adams spent big money on UPL after his one good pro season and he is now on a rehab assignment.  He was very good in his first rehab start in Rochester. 

Adams has a very tough decision to make once UPL’s rehab assignment is over.  If he waives either Lyon or Ellis, they will immediately be claimed.  Ellis has an excellent minor league record and looked very much like an NHL goalie last night.  I know StL was unhappy that the Sabres claimed him.  Lyon is a proven NHL vet who was a starter the last 2 seasons in Det and has looked solid so far this season.  I do think both have some trade value, but not much if rival GMs think Adams is backed into a corner.

However, Adams is bound to UPL. He gave him the big contract.  Will he really waive or trade UPL and run with Lyon and Ellis?

I honestly believe that UPL might be the worst of the 5 goalies.  Given his injury history and big contract, I would do anything I could to get out from under his deal.  That’s me, not Adams.  I believe an Ellis/Lyon combo is an upgrade over UPL and having two experienced guys in Rochester should be sufficient if either gets hurt.  

My guess is Adams does nothing immediately.  I suspect Adams will carry all 3 goalies and play them all for a few weeks.  This might be necessary to showcase that UPL is healthy and help his trade value, but given how bad our goaltending has been, Adams will want to keep his options open.  

What do you think will be the ultimate resolution?  

 

I was hoping they'd move UPL this offseason.  I was also hoping they'd make a big swing at the position to try and finally fix things back there.  

[Pimlach]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Our goaltending has been crap for years, but so far this season Lyon and now Ellis, in his first NHL game, have played well enough for the Sabres to win most night.  Ellis was particularly strong last night making four or five critical saves.  In Rochester is “key” acquisition Levi and late signee Georgiev.  Levi is off to a bit of a slow start in Rochester in 2 starts, but has been excellent there the last 2 seasons and Georgiev is what he is and was solid in his one start so far.

Last but not least is UPL. Adams spent big money on UPL after his one good pro season and he is now on a rehab assignment.  He was very good in his first rehab start in Rochester. 

Adams has a very tough decision to make once UPL’s rehab assignment is over.  If he waives either Lyon or Ellis, they will immediately be claimed.  Ellis has an excellent minor league record and looked very much like an NHL goalie last night.  I know StL was unhappy that the Sabres claimed him.  Lyon is a proven NHL vet who was a starter the last 2 seasons in Det and has looked solid so far this season.  I do think both have some trade value, but not much if rival GMs think Adams is backed into a corner.

However, Adams is bound to UPL. He gave him the big contract.  Will he really waive or trade UPL and run with Lyon and Ellis?

I honestly believe that UPL might be the worst of the 5 goalies.  Given his injury history and big contract, I would do anything I could to get out from under his deal.  That’s me, not Adams.  I believe an Ellis/Lyon combo is an upgrade over UPL and having two experienced guys in Rochester should be sufficient if either gets hurt.  

My guess is Adams does nothing immediately.  I suspect Adams will carry all 3 goalies and play them all for a few weeks.  This might be necessary to showcase that UPL is healthy and help his trade value, but given how bad our goaltending has been, Adams will want to keep his options open.  

What do you think will be the ultimate resolution?  

 

Give UPL his 2 weeks of rehab.  Give Ellis another game or two in that period.  

Bring up UPL and go with 3 for awhile until you can trade one of them for something.  

[#freejame]

39 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Give UPL his 2 weeks of rehab.  Give Ellis another game or two in that period.  

Bring up UPL and go with 3 for awhile until you can trade one of them for something.  

This is the only real answer. 

[Big Guava]

42 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Give UPL his 2 weeks of rehab.  Give Ellis another game or two in that period.  

Bring up UPL and go with 3 for awhile until you can trade one of them for something.  

I'm done with UPL. Get him off the roster and free up cap space. He will play well since he needs to "prove something" again, which is the only time he does, use it to drive up his value then get whatever you can for him and keep it moving.

[zow2]

Kevyn Adams has been waiting several years to luckbox his way into a goalie or goalies that the organization can trust.  There's no chance Colten Ellis is going anywhere, anytime soon.  They have Lyons who looks good and they need to see what Ellis can do on a semi consistent basis.  Both these guys look calm and poised. They may have hit on something great and cannot dismiss that.

If I was GM I would have been on the phone last night trying to see if I can muster up a trade of UPL.  He's not the future here imo.  Other teams need experienced goaltending.  I'd also see if I can move Owen Power, just because I'm over him.  Sell high while both guys have some decent value.

 

[Shoot da Puck]

We have to many great goaltenders in one small town...

This has been a problem for years..

 

[gilbert11]

26 minutes ago, Shoot da Puck said:

We have to many great goaltenders in one small town...

This has been a problem for years..

 

The TNT studio crew commented about too many goalied.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

This is the only real answer. 

If Ellis is playing well, waive UPL and put him in Rochester.  Is anyone gonna grab that $4.75M cap hit?

[RochesterExpat]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I honestly believe that UPL might be the worst of the 5 goalies.  

I don't think he's worse than Georgiev. I'm not convinced he is better than Ellis or Levi. I believe Lyon is better. So he's somewhere 2nd through 4th in my eyes.

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

If Ellis is playing well, waive UPL and put him in Rochester.  Is anyone gonna grab that $4.75M cap hit?

At what point do you do this though? If it's when UPL's conditioning stint ends, Ellis will have played one more game. That's not a large sample size to measure against and will be potentially complicated if UPL is playing well in the AHL. I would almost want UPL to get NHL games this season to see if he's going to perform or not.

[Carmel Corn]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

If Ellis is playing well, waive UPL and put him in Rochester.  Is anyone gonna grab that $4.75M cap hit?

Edmonton???  If they can free up a little cap space.

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Edmonton???  If they can free up a little cap space.

Right.  There's the problem.  What's the list of teams that need goalie help and have that much cap space?

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Right.  There's the problem.  What's the list of teams that need goalie help and have that much cap space?

The Sabres can always retain some cap to help get a deal done.  It’s not like Terry and Kevyn ever use all our cap space anyway.

[PASabreFan]

There is no solution needed. UPL's contract, history and future are irrelevant. You are trying to make the playoffs. Right now Lyon is your man. The only question is whether UPL can supplant Ellis. Lindy had better not make any lineup decision based on anything other than your best chance to win.

[Jorcus]

UPL vs Ellis I am taking UPL. It doesn't really matter what I think because UPL is coming up. Ellis is getting waived. Georgiyev is just waiting to be traded for future considerations to a team that has injuries and no better options. Levi and Leinonen will continue on in Rochester. If Ellis gets through waivers then maybe they send Leinonen some other place. You can pretty much book all this happening barring injuries.   

[darksabre]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Give UPL his 2 weeks of rehab.  Give Ellis another game or two in that period.  

Bring up UPL and go with 3 for awhile until you can trade one of them for something.  

Yup. Just carry 3 goalies. It's annoying to use a roster spot that way, but they absolutely have to decide who the tandem is going to be. 

[kas23]

Anyone really think UPL is a goalie who will get you to the playoffs or far into them?

[Doohickie]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres can always retain some cap to help get a deal done.  It’s not like Terry and Kevyn ever use all our cap space anyway.

Yeah, that was my next thought.  Retain salary to move him and get something in return.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

  

What do you think will be the ultimate resolution?  

 

One word: THUNDERDOME!

Edited 2 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[Jorcus]

3 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Anyone really think UPL is a goalie who will get you to the playoffs or far into them?

In the right system at least to the playoffs. Maybe more. So yes. 

[...]

Ellis is quick, and clearly reads the play well, but he is rough around the edges. We need to see him in a few more games. I think between Levi & UPL you get the same results, and I'd rather keep Levi because he's light in the loins. Not a fan of UPL, so I wouldn't mind giving him his papers ASAP, but if playing him increases his trade value and/or the interest in trading for him, that's fine. 

But have this sh%t settled by the end of November.

[kas23]

9 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

In the right system at least to the playoffs. Maybe more. So yes. 

Like for a different team? Vegas? I’ll rephrase my question, can UPL lead the Sabres to a  playoff birth or more?

[Jorcus]

4 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Like for a different team? Vegas? I’ll rephrase my question, can UPL lead the Sabres to a  playoff birth or more?

Is he over Lyon at the moment? Probably not but I think that could change. I think the situation last year was partly a case of burn out. When the third pair is Clifton and Bryson, a second pair getting not enough D out of Sammy and Power it's tough. Add in that some of the forwards were not as responsible as a few we added I think we might be in a better situation. So while UPL might not be the whole solution I still think he is part of it compared to the alternatives. Only his play will determine where he is. UPL's record is 155 games 71/65/15 .898 behind a lot of crappy Buffalo D. Lyon is 119 games 53/42/11 .904. Some of that was on Florida and Carolina two of the most defensive teams in the east. Maybe at age 32 it's all coming together but that is very few games for a player of his age. Best case they both hit .910 or above and share the workload. If you go with Ellis, Lyon is playing 70% of the games and my guess is that will not go well. We just have recency bias with UPL. A 26 year old goalie with a winning record in the NHL is not going to get waived unless he is hurt beyond repair. So I have talked myself into saying yes he can lead us to the playoffs if everything around him is better.