Adams roster defining trades - How do we feel about these deals and the Sabres because of them?

[GASabresIUFAN]

These are mostly listed in order by date but not importance or whether they are good or bad.  Just thought we should have a list of major (ish) moves.  I have left off moves like Joki for a 4th or Asplund for a 7th.

1) Peterka for Kesselring and Doan - top 6 scorer out, two middle roster players in

2) Cozens Gilbert and a 2026 2nd for Norris and JBD - Norris hurt 3 games after trade and hurt again in 1st game of the season.  JBD looked solid last season but Adams let him walk anyway. G-d forbid someone takes Bryson's roster spot.

3) Savoie for McLeod and AHLer Tullio - former top 10 pick out - 3rd line center in

4) a 2nd for Beck Malenstyn - draft pick wasted on 4th line trash.  2nd was used on Cole Hutson

5) Mitts for Byram - middle six forward out - raw top 4 D in

6) Robinson for a 7th - 4th liner in for a 7th.  Wasn't retained after the season

7) a 2nd and 5th for Greenway - Greenway has a needed skill set, but can't stay healthy. 2nd used on Riley Heidy, a smallish center but prolific scorer in the WHL

😎 Bloom for Stillman - Stillman was gone as soo as his contract was up.

9) Eichel plus a 3rd (Mathieu Cataford) for Tuch, Krebs a 1st (Östlund) and a 2nd (used to get Greenway) - Eichel won a Cup with LV, Östlund earned a call up this week

10) Nothing for Butcher and a 5th.  He was worth what we paid for him 

11) Reinhart for Levi and a 1st (Kulich) - Levi hasn't earned the NHL job yet?, Kulich has developed nicely, but Reinhart scored 50 and won two Cups

12) Risto for Hagg, 1st (Rosen) and a 2nd (Wahlberg) - Risto learned to play defense and the prospects still in the system

13) Montour for a 3rd (Sardarian) - Montour blossomed in Fla and won a Cup and we got a nothing prospect in return

14) Hall and Lazar for Bjork and a 2nd (Kisakov) - Basically a former MVP and a 4th line center for nothing because Adams gave Hall a NMC - Genius at work

15) Johansson for Staal - nothing to see here.  

Lets be honest, the Sabres maybe worse now after all these deals.  Adams has traded away for the 5 most productive drafted and developed Sabres forwards in Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Cozens and JJP.  Krebs hasn't panned out, Norris is injured, Levi is in the AHL, and Greenway also injured.  On the positive Doan looks like solid middle roster played, Kulich has a bright future (until Adams trades him as well), Byram has outplayed Power, Tuch has been good but his contract is up and McLeod was good last season (but invisible so far this season except on the PK).  IMHO the result of the these trades made the Sabres younger and less skilled.

I don't trust Adams to make any trades going forward.  

Edited 18 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

Notice the complete lack of Goaltending on this list.

[Mr. MVP]

3, 5, 7 and 12 were ok/good.  
The rest of the trades were bad and hurt this franchise

[DarthEbriate]

For #10, the 2022 NJ 5th (134OA) became RHD Vsevolod Komarov

[Thorny]

Stink stank stunk

[Bangarang]

When you spell it all out like that I'm beginning to think this Adams fella isn't very good at his job.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

These are mostly listed in order by date but not importance or whether they are good or bad.  Just thought we should have a list of major (ish) moves.  I have left off moves like Joki for a 4th or Asplund for a 7th.

1) Peterka for Kesselring and Doan - top 6 scorer out, two middle roster players in

2) Cozens Gilbert and a 2026 2nd for Norris and JBD - Norris hurt 3 games after trade and hurt again in 1st game of the season.  JBD looked solid last season but Adams let him walk anyway. G-d forbid someone takes Bryson's roster spot.

3) Savoie for McLeod and AHLer Tullio - former top 10 pick out - 3rd line center in

4) a 2nd for Beck Malenstyn - draft pick wasted on 4th line trash.  2nd was used on Cole Hutson

5) Mitts for Byram - middle six forward out - raw top 4 D in

6) Robinson for a 7th - 4th liner in for a 7th.  Wasn't retained after the season

7) a 2nd and 5th for Greenway - Greenway has a needed skill set, but can't stay healthy. 2nd used on Riley Heidy, a smallish center but prolific scorer in the WHL

😎 Bloom for Stillman - Stillman was gone as soo as his contract was up.

9) Eichel plus a 3rd (Mathieu Cataford) for Tuch, Krebs a 1st (Östlund) and a 2nd (used to get Greenway) - Eichel won a Cup with LV, Östlund earned a call up this week

10) Nothing for Butcher and a 5th.  He was worth what we paid for him 

11) Reinhart for Levi and a 1st (Kulich) - Levi hasn't earned the NHL job yet?, Kulich has developed nicely, but Reinhart scored 50 and won two Cups

12) Risto for Hagg, 1st (Rosen) and a 2nd (Wahlberg) - Risto learned to play defense and the prospects still in the system

13) Montour for a 3rd (Sardarian) - Montour blossomed in Fla and won a Cup and we got a nothing prospect in return

14) Hall and Lazar for Bjork and a 2nd (Kisakov) - Basically a former MVP and a 4th line center for nothing because Adams gave Hall a NMC - Genius at work

15) Johansson for Staal - nothing to see here.  

Lets be honest, the Sabres maybe worse now after all these deals.  Adams has traded away for the 5 most productive drafted and developed Sabres forwards in Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Cozens and JJP.  Krebs hasn't panned out, Norris is injured, Levi is in the AHL, and Greenway also injured.  On the positive Doan looks like solid middle roster played, Kulich has a bright future (until Adams trades him as well), Byram has outplayed Power, Tuch has been good but his contract is up and McLeod was good last season (but invisible so far this season except on the PK).  IMHO the result of the these trades made the Sabres younger and less skilled.

I don't trust Adams to make any trades going forward.  

1.  Not sure yet, could be ok

2. Good.  

3. Not bad, leaning on the good side.

4. Not good.

5. Big (ish) names but not really helping/hurting either way.

6. Doesn't matter.

7. Not good.

8. Doesn't matter.

9. Not good.

10. Doesn't matter.

11. Not good.

12. Decent.  Risto was hurting this team, needed to go.

13. Bad.

14. Doesn't matter.

15 Doesnt matter.

[St. Pete Gogolak]

The board in general LOVED the Risto trade. Philly had its pocket picked. Well, Philly has gotten four seasons of a vet, physical RHD (yes, with warts for sure). To date, we’ve received zilch in return.  Trade is a negative, period.

[Rasmus_]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Stink stank stunk

Perfectly said.  Simple, straight forward, and the stink around it, has only gotten worse.  A few of the moves have worked, but the stagnant inability to get ahead of things, and only react is your problem here.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, St. Pete Gogolak said:

The board in general LOVED the Risto trade. Philly had its pocket picked. Well, Philly has gotten four seasons of a vet, physical RHD (yes, with warts for sure). To date, we’ve received zilch in return.  Trade is a negative, period.

You're conflating can't draft with "Risto wasn't awful"

[St. Pete Gogolak]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You're conflating can't draft with "Risto wasn't awful"

I guess that is correct.  Maybe the lesson is don’t trade for draft picks when you don’t know how to draft.

[7+6=13]

Oh wow, how creative.  Another trash Adams thread.  

[PerreaultForever]

1) probably good for both teams

2) horrible. Moving on from Cozens was fine but not for this. 

3) future for present so good deal. 

4) dumb overpay and a waste of a 2nd rounder.

5) I'm mixed on this. I think Byram might be the better player but it wasn't really the right player for this team.

6) waste of time 

7) I'd say bad as Greenway can't stay healthy.

😎 meh

9) Bad. I like Tuch but come on, we lost that deal big time.

10) meh whatever

11) we got fleeced. I like Kulich and Levi might still turn into something but Reinhart is a star goal scorer.

12) I thought we won this one big but if the prospects don't make it I guess maybe we lost this one too. Mind you Risto is forever injured in Philly so I guess not.

13) well this one was a surprise. Who knew? Nobody wanted him here. Then he goes on to star in Florida. I guess that says more about our coaching and failed systems than the player. We blew this one. 

14) we got robbed blind by the player and the trade. Best to just forget this one and blot it from your memory.

15) ya, that's another whatever. 

overall it's a clear losing record. 

[sabremike]

This is Milbury level *****, there are multiple trades here that should end a GM's career (the Norris trade in particular was an act of insane recklessness and stupidity that even Ray Charles could've see was going to be a disaster).

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

These are mostly listed in order by date but not importance or whether they are good or bad.  Just thought we should have a list of major (ish) moves.  I have left off moves like Joki for a 4th or Asplund for a 7th.

1) Peterka for Kesselring and Doan - top 6 scorer out, two middle roster players in

2) Cozens Gilbert and a 2026 2nd for Norris and JBD - Norris hurt 3 games after trade and hurt again in 1st game of the season.  JBD looked solid last season but Adams let him walk anyway. G-d forbid someone takes Bryson's roster spot.

3) Savoie for McLeod and AHLer Tullio - former top 10 pick out - 3rd line center in

4) a 2nd for Beck Malenstyn - draft pick wasted on 4th line trash.  2nd was used on Cole Hutson

5) Mitts for Byram - middle six forward out - raw top 4 D in

6) Robinson for a 7th - 4th liner in for a 7th.  Wasn't retained after the season

7) a 2nd and 5th for Greenway - Greenway has a needed skill set, but can't stay healthy. 2nd used on Riley Heidy, a smallish center but prolific scorer in the WHL

😎 Bloom for Stillman - Stillman was gone as soo as his contract was up.

9) Eichel plus a 3rd (Mathieu Cataford) for Tuch, Krebs a 1st (Östlund) and a 2nd (used to get Greenway) - Eichel won a Cup with LV, Östlund earned a call up this week

10) Nothing for Butcher and a 5th.  He was worth what we paid for him 

11) Reinhart for Levi and a 1st (Kulich) - Levi hasn't earned the NHL job yet?, Kulich has developed nicely, but Reinhart scored 50 and won two Cups

12) Risto for Hagg, 1st (Rosen) and a 2nd (Wahlberg) - Risto learned to play defense and the prospects still in the system

13) Montour for a 3rd (Sardarian) - Montour blossomed in Fla and won a Cup and we got a nothing prospect in return

14) Hall and Lazar for Bjork and a 2nd (Kisakov) - Basically a former MVP and a 4th line center for nothing because Adams gave Hall a NMC - Genius at work

15) Johansson for Staal - nothing to see here.  

Lets be honest, the Sabres maybe worse now after all these deals.  Adams has traded away for the 5 most productive drafted and developed Sabres forwards in Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Cozens and JJP.  Krebs hasn't panned out, Norris is injured, Levi is in the AHL, and Greenway also injured.  On the positive Doan looks like solid middle roster played, Kulich has a bright future (until Adams trades him as well), Byram has outplayed Power, Tuch has been good but his contract is up and McLeod was good last season (but invisible so far this season except on the PK).  IMHO the result of the these trades made the Sabres younger and less skilled.

I don't trust Adams to make any trades going forward.  

Is Adams living rent free in Georgia ?  

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Is Adams living rent free in Georgia ?  

Not at all.  We were discussing a possible trade of Power and I went to look at Adams trade history to try to formulate a trade that made sense.  As I reviewed the trades it became apparent what Adams moves have done to destroy the roster. 

Adams traded away Eichel, Reinhart, Cozens and Mitts leaving the Sabres without a proven and heathy top 6 center.  Instead the Sabres have oft injured shoot first Norris, a developing middle 6 in Kulich, 3rd liner McLeod and two 4th liners in Krebs and Kozak.  None of these guys are playmakers.  

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Is Adams living rent free in Georgia ?  

A factor in any discussion about making deals to improve the team is underpinned by who is making the deals. Judging the cumulative performance of dealer is a fair consideration. If you went to a surgeon who botched a hemorrhoid surgery by mistakenly plugging the hole, would you go back to the same surgeon to correct the butchery? 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not at all.  We were discussing a possible trade of Power and I went to look at Adams trade history to try to formulate a trade that made sense.  As I reviewed the trades it became apparent what Adams moves have done to destroy the roster. 

Adams traded away Eichel, Reinhart, Cozens and Mitts leaving the Sabres without a proven and heathy top 6 center.  Instead the Sabres have oft injured shoot first Norris, a developing middle 6 in Kulich, 3rd liner McLeod and two 4th liners in Krebs and Kozak.  None of these guys are playmakers.  

When you look at all Adams moves since the Eichel trade it pretty much reads as the  "what not to do" bible for GMs.  

Yet, there he is in his 6th year at the helm.  

[DarthEbriate]

It's early in the morning. Let's quantify this! That will give Adams the benefit of the doubt in his leadoff big roster shakeup because he received many more assets than he gave up. For scoring, I'll keep it simple, even though the range should be much greater (Eichel is more than 5 above a player who never made it to the NHL, for example). The points also reduce the noise of "what did they do to retain X" -- which could cause massive issues with just evaluating the trade (i.e., think if Kesselring and Doan both pull JJPs this coming summer and refuse to sign and get moved for future lesser returns...).

Points:
5=unquestioned top line/1st pair
4=2nd line/2nd pair/1st rd pick
3=3rd line/3rd pair/2nd rd pick
2=4th line/depth D/3rd rd pick
1=AHLer/4th-7th rd pick
0= never made it to AHL/future considerations.
Bonus points: +1 for cap relief (because theoretically it gives you opportunity to do more for your roster).

 

1) JJP -4 = Kess 3 + Doan 3 =    +2   (Kesselring was a 3rd pair who played up, and Doan is a 3rd liner around the league at this time -- likewise, JJP isn't a 1W in most scenarios at the time of the trade and isn't with Utah now)
2) Coz -3 + future 2nd (-3) + Gilbert -1 = Norris 4 + JBD 2   =  -1    (but based on GP would = -6)
3) Sav -1 = McLeod 3 + Tullio 1  =  +3     (top 10 pick should equate to 4pts, which would = 0)
4) 2nd -3 = Malenstyn 2 = -1
5) Mitts -3 = Byram 4  = +1      (Byram is on BUF 1st pair, but around the league he's a D3/4)
6) 7th -1 = Rob +2 = +1
7) 2nd -3 + 5th -1 = Greenway +3 = -1
8] Bloom 0 = Stillman +1 = +1
9) Eichel -5 + 3rd -2 = Tuch +4, Krebs +2, 1st +2, 2nd +3 =  +4    (strictly asset for asset, and here is where you know that the 5-point tier should really be weighed as 10, but again, to give Adams as much credit as possible in just swapping assets. would = -6)
10) 0 = Butcher (1) + 5th (1) =   +2
11) Reinhart -5 = Levi 1 + Kulich 3 = -1   (If Reino is also a 10, this would = -6)
12) Risto -3 = Hagg 2 + Rosen 2 + Wahlberg 1 = +2   (jury still out on Wahlberg's ceiling)
13) Montour -4 = Sardarian 0  = -4
14) Hall -4 + Lazar -2 = Bjork 1 + Kisakov 0 = -5
15) Johansson -3 = Staal 3 = 0

So, giving Adams the greatest benefit of the doubt, based strictly on assets in and out, that's a.... +3.
Or, going by the grading system, equivalent to a 3rd line player, 3rd pair D, 2nd round pick. That's the net difference. That's what Adams has accomplished in 5 years with a team/system bursting to the seams with top-10 pick talent.

Instead, you know they're down 2 elite players that would be change the entire complexion of the franchise if they had stuck with them, hired a real coaching staff, and had proper guidance on basic roster construction (sign a Zucker-type, draft your own Doan types, sign a true goalie tandem, etc.)

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

When you look at all Adams moves since the Eichel trade it pretty much reads as the  "what not to do" bible for GMs.  

Yet, there he is in his 6th year at the helm.  

For the sake of the discussion, what would happen if the GM, coach and much of the staffing in the organization were replaced? What would be the mindset of an empowered GM taking over the players on the team and in the system. Would there be a major clearing house and major blowup of the roster or would there be some astute tweaks to the roster that would make a consequential difference? I lean toward some tweaks rather than going through another excruciating rebuild. 

I live in the MD/DC area and saw the dramatic change with the Washington Commanders with the departure of the former owner and a complete remake of the organization staffed by sycophants. Putting aside the ownership issue, could an organizational remake quickly get this meandering franchise on track, or would it be another situation where you have to go through another laborious rebuild process while the disillusioned fan base continues to erode?