The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Drag0nDan]

9 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

It's because the plan every season is to have the young kids progress and get better to take over the team. They never want to upgrade over the potential of one of their prospects. It's always about not blocking someone from coming up, and then when they come up it's about making sure they get time and minutes. There is no urgency to get better now because that's always viewed as potentially throwing the franchise into some downward spiral that they can never get out of, when meanwhile every other team in the league seems to be able to navigate through this. 

It definitely was an issue before, but part of me thinks they just can't upgrade over their prospects.  Pretty much everyone worth a damn over the age of 26 has a clause.  So now you're left with a market of talented players who other teams view as building blocks, or just slightly different young players than the ones you have.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

It's because the plan every season is to have the young kids progress and get better to take over the team. They never want to upgrade over the potential of one of their prospects. It's always about not blocking someone from coming up, and then when they come up it's about making sure they get time and minutes. There is no urgency to get better now because that's always viewed as potentially throwing the franchise into some downward spiral that they can never get out of, when meanwhile every other team in the league seems to be able to navigate through this. 

If that’s the plan why do we keep trading away the forwards we draft and develop who succeed because management doesn’t want to pay them.

[Carmel Corn]

It’s hard to enjoy the good life when you do nothing but dumpster diving for your roster.

[Ctaeth]

Imo, they are marginally better after these moves.  The big areas of improvement are coming from lyon and kesselring.  Barring massive injury issues in our forwards, I think the scoring won't fall off precipitously.  While defense and goaltending are improved with lyon and kesselring (with or without a bridge deal for byram).

Even though they appear marginally improved on paper, it may be a paper tiger. The possibility of it blowing up in their face with a bunch of injury issues in the forward group though seems pretty high.  Bunch of guys in our group that miss half the season yearly.  Here's hoping those guys are all past it

[Weave]

As regular viewers are all too aware, I barely watch this team anymore.  And I don’t get emotionally invested.

But…..

I think this might be the most disappointing offseason since Black Friday.  I get it, Peterka was refusing to negotiate.  It feels like losing Drury again.  Not the Peterka was the key, but that right now the hole seems unfillable. And now KA has to play defense with Bo just to ensure we get something respectable when he’s gone.  We are pretty much resigned to moving backwards with him too.  
 

It feels like the final unraveling is starting, and it is going to pick up speed until the Sabres are in an unintended tank.

JFC Terry, Adams is in over his head and the whole ***** thing is on the verge of crashing down.

[apuszczalowski]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If that’s the plan why do we keep trading away the forwards we draft and develop who succeed because management doesn’t want to pay them.

Because the players want out and won't re-sign, this front office has said that they don't want players here who don't want to be here. Players know they will be moved if they say they want out.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

To the last point, it’s rather (see: exceptionally) wild that after all this we have ONE top 10 pick forward on the roster. One. Quinn, that’s it.

It’s kind of a function of how long we’ve been bad and the fact fact we’ve hit the reset button three times now.

This is effectively the last gasp of SabresRebuild 3.0.

Sam and Jack were traded in the aftermath of 2.0, Nylander busted, Savoie, Cozens and Mittelstadt were sacrificed in a bid to keep 3.0 alive.

Unless some kind of miracle happens, we’ll be adding another one next year for the new guy to launch Version 4.0

[LGR4GM]

26 minutes ago, Weave said:

As regular viewers are all too aware, I barely watch this team anymore.  And I don’t get emotionally invested.

But…..

I think this might be the most disappointing offseason since Black Friday.  I get it, Peterka was refusing to negotiate.  It feels like losing Drury again.  Not the Peterka was the key, but that right now the hole seems unfillable. And now KA has to play defense with Bo just to ensure we get something respectable when he’s gone.  We are pretty much resigned to moving backwards with him too.  
 

It feels like the final unraveling is starting, and it is going to pick up speed until the Sabres are in an unintended tank.

JFC Terry, Adams is in over his head and the whole ***** thing is on the verge of crashing down.

Verge? To quote Clark Griswold, look around Hellen! We're at the 9th circle of hell. 

[Thorny]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s kind of a function of how long we’ve been bad and the fact fact we’ve hit the reset button three times now.

This is effectively the last gasp of SabresRebuild 3.0.

Sam and Jack were traded in the aftermath of 2.0, Nylander busted, Savoie, Cozens and Mittelstadt were sacrificed in a bid to keep 3.0 alive.

Unless some kind of miracle happens, we’ll be adding another one next year for the new guy to launch Version 4.0

I think it’s mostly a factor of bad team building 

Have 3 times as many D man top 10 picks and D account for half the roster sports forwards do

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

As regular viewers are all too aware, I barely watch this team anymore.  And I don’t get emotionally invested.

But…..

I think this might be the most disappointing offseason since Black Friday.  I get it, Peterka was refusing to negotiate.  It feels like losing Drury again.  Not the Peterka was the key, but that right now the hole seems unfillable. And now KA has to play defense with Bo just to ensure we get something respectable when he’s gone.  We are pretty much resigned to moving backwards with him too.  
 

It feels like the final unraveling is starting, and it is going to pick up speed until the Sabres are in an unintended tank.

JFC Terry, Adams is in over his head and the whole ***** thing is on the verge of crashing down.

It does feel an awful lot like that off-season.  It kind of feels like the off-season they got rid of Hawerchuck and Mogilny and every other big name except Hasek and LaFontaine.  And that next season really did stink.  And then out of the blue, they actually gelled and were good.  Until the rug got pulled out from under us again.

THAT is what being a Sabres fan is all about.  You'd think we'd be used to getting the rug pulled out from under us by now.

But spend $11MM of that nearly $14MM they have now, and maybe there's some hope.  (It can't be any fun pulling the rug out from under us or the football away from us if we don't have hope.  Right now, they aren't giving us the hope.  So, it must be terribly dull for them at present.)

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It does feel an awful lot like that off-season.  It kind of feels like the off-season they got rid of Hawerchuck and Mogilny and every other big name except Hasek and LaFontaine.  And that next season really did stink.  And then out of the blue, they actually gelled and were good.  Until the rug got pulled out from under us again.

THAT is what being a Sabres fan is all about.  You'd think we'd be used to getting the rug pulled out from under us by now.

But spend $11MM of that nearly $14MM they have now, and maybe there's some hope.  (It can't be any fun pulling the rug out from under us or the football away from us if we don't have hope.  Right now, they aren't giving us the hope.  So, it must be terribly dull for them at present.)

I can’t get past, who are they going to find worth spending $11M on that will agree to sign?

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

I can’t get past, who are they going to find worth spending $11M on that will agree to sign?

Well, figure $6-8MM of that is going to go to Byram.  Another $2MM will go to Levi.  And another $1MM to Timmons.

And, upon looking at that, yeah, there's $11MM spent and it doesn't really bring much hope along does it?  (Now trade Samuelsson away and a trade of Byram could bring back something interesting.  Or if Byram was only bridged, trading Samuelsson leaves about $6MM of that $11MM left to be spent on fun stuff.)

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, figure $6-8MM of that is going to go to Byram.  Another $2MM will go to Levi.  And another $1MM to Timmons.

And, upon looking at that, yeah, there's $11MM spent and it doesn't really bring much hope along does it?  (Now trade Samuelsson away and a trade of Byram could bring back something interesting.  Or if Byram was only bridged, trading Samuelsson leaves about $6MM of that $11MM left to be spent on fun stuff.)

Well, certainly keeping Byram is more hopeful than trying to work with the lesser parts we’d get back in return.

What we need right now (other than a mid competence GM) is an innovative coach that can turn 3 high end offensive defensemen, 2 snipers, and 3 really solid 200’ forwards into a gameplan/system unlike the rest of the league.

Alas, Team Lindy is likely a bit stretched for the task.

[dudacek]

52 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think it’s mostly a factor of bad team building 

Have 3 times as many D man top 10 picks and D account for half the roster sports forwards do

Don’t think I can get there, at least in terms of your second sentence.

Aren’t you essentially saying shoulda picked Beniers and kept Mittelstadt?

Or shouldn’t have traded Cozens and Savoie for guys who aren’t top 10 forwards?

If you simply mean Adams Botterill and Murray should have made better decisions in general, then yeah, sure.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Don’t think I can get there, at least in terms of your second sentence.

Aren’t you essentially saying shoulda picked Beniers and kept Mittelstadt?

Or shouldn’t have traded Cozens and Savoie for guys who aren’t top 10 forwards?

If you simply mean Adams Botterill and Murray should have made better decisions in general, then yeah, sure.

Was more referring to the fact we traded Eichel and Reinhart, two proven functional building blocks of championship teams but more less brain farted as you mentioned that already.

although I do think the fact we converted eveything we had to assets one way or another and are left with none of those F save Quinn IS also an example of poor roster construction and just a poorly conceived plan in general. 

Through all the draft picks we’ve made and traded for and prospects we’ve acquired through the trading of the highly drafted forwards we did have over the course of 5 years to be so thin in that sense remains odd to me 

I do think the Cozens asset was severely mishandled 

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Was more referring to the fact we traded Eichel and Reinhart, two proven functional building blocks of championship teams but more less brain farted as you mentioned that already.

although I do think the fact we converted eveything we had to assets one way or another and are left with none of those F save Quinn IS also an example of poor roster construction and just a poorly conceived plan in general. 

Through all the draft picks we’ve made and traded for and prospects we’ve acquired through the trading of the highly drafted forwards we did have over the course of 5 years to be so thin in that sense remains odd to me 

I do think the Cozens asset was severely mishandled 

The level of ineptitude is mind-numbing. 

[7+6=13]

None of us can know if this team is or isn't 7 wins better.  It's not a massive gap to close, although it can feel that way.

We lost a scorer but he didn't do much else.  I won't dismiss the importance of scoring.  I think we added some decent players and I'm hopeful there's a couple more good things to happen.

I won't say this doesn't feel like a playoff team because toughness and better defense can have an impact.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Don’t think I can get there, at least in terms of your second sentence.

Aren’t you essentially saying shoulda picked Beniers and kept Mittelstadt?

Or shouldn’t have traded Cozens and Savoie for guys who aren’t top 10 forwards?

If you simply mean Adams Botterill and Murray should have made better decisions in general, then yeah, sure.

I was screaming to draft Beniers when was obvious Eichel was gone. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I was screaming to draft Beniers when was obvious Eichel was gone. 

Matty played 3 more games than Power last year and had 3 more points.

Still a lot of seasons to be played but right now Power seems like the better choice to me.

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Matty played 3 more games than Power last year and had 3 more points.

Still a lot of seasons to be played but right now Power seems like the better choice to me.

Not sure as Berniers give us  a 2C we currently lack and we could keep Byram since no Power. 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Not sure as Berniers give us  a 2C we currently lack and we could keep Byram since no Power. 

Not disagreeing with the concept.

But right now, Matty Beniers and Ryan McLeod might roughly be the same player.

Last year McLeod was better.

[Flashsabre]

Better than what?

Let this sink in for a second:

Last year this GM stood up and said “No more excuses, it’s playoffs or bust for this team.” Then he put together a team that were one Bruins sell off away from ending last in the division.

The owner didn’t think that was a fireable offence or that owning a team for 14 years and not making the playoffs one time is a big issue.

The GM has put together a similar offseason so far this year.

What are we even doing anymore? The Sabres are the laughingstock of the league and no one associated with the team seems to care.

[oddoublee]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Better than what?

Let this sink in for a second:

Last year this GM stood up and said “No more excuses, it’s playoffs or bust for this team.” Then he put together a team that were one Bruins sell off away from ending last in the division.

The owner didn’t think that was a fireable offence or that owning a team for 14 years and not making the playoffs one time is a big issue.

The GM has put together a similar offseason so far this year.

What are we even doing anymore? The Sabres are the laughingstock of the league and no one associated with the team seems to care.

It's awful. Power, awful contract. Cozens, awful contract. Samuelson, awful contract. UPL, mildly awful contract. Norris, awful contract to take on. Skinner buyout/original contract was awful. 

None of the things I mentioned above are considered hindsight opinions by many. 

Not a single contract I mentioned offered us high level impact.

We suck. 

[spndnchz]

21 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

It's awful. Power, awful contract. Cozens, awful contract. Samuelson, awful contract. UPL, mildly awful contract. Norris, awful contract to take on. Skinner buyout/original contract was awful. 

None of the things I mentioned above are considered hindsight opinions by many. 

Not a single contract I mentioned offered us high level impact.

We suck. 

So you would have done what?

[SabreFinn]

There are a lot of players on Sabres contracts that need to have one helll of an offseason and one hell of a season for us to make the playoff. The roster has not been improved so it is up to the players to make some progress. On the other hand, our biggest rivals in Atlantic has not improved much either. And it would be surprising if there are more than one wild card team from Metro, most likely there are none. All my hopes are not gone yet.

Edited 6 hours ago by SabreFinn
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