Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Im back in the lower 48.  Had a great trip to Alaska. 

Glad to hear this. Welcome back!

[MISabresFan]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have no idea if Adams is done or not but I fear the end result.

I am concerned with the loss of offensive production. We are forever going back and forth and not progressing. As I said, if we gave up any number of prospects I'd love these additions but what we gave up creates an even bigger hole. Right now we still look like a farm team for the rest of the league. 

It appears to be a change in direction from his original plan.  Creating a pile of prospects with goal scoring in mind, switch to today/last year - getting players who are hard to play against and a bit tougher.  (Problem - you need D and a goalie and better centermen, pretty weak down the middle.)

Possibly another year or two of no playoffs, especially with KA's speed of making changes.

Crystal ball - another 5 years goes by, other teams get good and creative with their rosters, and KA changes plan again to follow the trend...

Rinse Repeat

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by MISabresFan

[Wyldnwoody44]

Meh, the sabres can do almost anything and it's hard to find emotion. We have a dimwit at the helm...maybe he makes a few good trades, probably makes many bad ones. Sabres tickets will remain super cheap and some fans will show up. 

Were stuck, stuck in Hades, have no coin for the ferryman to cross and just wallow in this space of hockey. 

[Flashsabre]

I read an article that said one NHL exec thinks the Peterka trade was fair value. Another exec said Adams loved Kesserling and if there was one move he would have bet on this summer it was Kesserling to Buffalo. 
 

I have a feeling Brian Rust will be a Sabre before the season starts.

[MISabresFan]

10 hours ago, Jorcus said:

One thing I am looking forward to is watching Kesselring hammer slapshots. His shot is only outdone by Tage's. Dahlin is very close behind in top shot speed. The other teams are going to be limping off the ice if they get in the way of that trio. You want to block this? Go ahead make my day.  

Red scores

His benchmark skills show low shot blocking, low percent of shots on goal/shooting percentage, doesn't take penalties, battling skills are low, goals for is low, and has a high percentage of giveaways in the offensive zone.

Defensively has high percentages of goals against (in a positive way) when on the ice, and a high Corsi rating. 

 

[Archie Lee]

23 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I read an article that said one NHL exec thinks the Peterka trade was fair value. Another exec said Adams loved Kesserling and if there was one move he would have bet on this summer it was Kesserling to Buffalo. 
 

I have a feeling Brian Rust will be a Sabre before the season starts.

There were two interview clips I heard yesterday on the trade and Peterka. They sort of align. Mike Peca was the first. Peca loves Peterka and thinks Utah got a 40 goal scorer. More significantly perhaps, is he said that in the 2nd half of their season together in Rochester, Peterka figured out how being defensively responsible and committing to puck retrievals on the D side, would benefit his offence. It made me think there is a better two-way player in there somewhere. 

The 2nd interview was with Ray Ferraro. He thought the Sabres did well and that once Sabre fans get to watch Kesselring/Doan they will see that they got two good players, in particular Kesselring. He also told an anecdote about a Sabre game he covered last year where after every shift Peterka would come and sit on the end of the bench and do a 45 degree turn away from his teammates and coaches. He said that all signs were that Peterka had emotionally checked-out on the Sabres.  

The link between the stories is that Peterka has more in him to give.  We will find out if he is a player who will eventually find something he doesn’t like in any situation and let it negatively impact his game, or if he just had another case of the Sabre-Blues.  I would bet on the latter. 

Also, Ferraro’s comments gave me hope that we didn’t lose this trade. 

Lastly, I’m all over a 3rd line of Kulich centring two veterans in Zucker and Rust. Give Kulich what we never gave Cozens: two seasons between two vets who can teach him how to be a pro. Turn the trio loose; their purpose is to outscore the other team’s 3rd line. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Archie Lee

[JohnC]

43 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I read an article that said one NHL exec thinks the Peterka trade was fair value. Another exec said Adams loved Kesserling and if there was one move he would have bet on this summer it was Kesserling to Buffalo. 
 

I have a feeling Brian Rust will be a Sabre before the season starts.

It's not unusual to judge trades on the basis of who won or lost the trade. However, especially in this case, that's not how the deal should be evaluated. Based on the fact that JJP wasn't able to come to terms with Buffalo while immediately coming to terms with Utah after the trade makes it abundantly clear that he didn't want to be here. I wanted to keep JJP. But if he was going to be dealt the expectation was that the return would address other areas of need. By that measure, it did. It added a big defenseman and grittier forward. 

Most people who follow the Sabres acknowledge that this roster needed to be reshaped to become a less finesse-oriented team to a harder to play team. So we gave up a young scorer who was a lackluster two-way player. The bottom line is that you give up something of value to get something back in value. And that's exactly what happened here. 

And it should be noted that if there are additional follow up deal/s that contribute to reshaping the lineup, the JJP deal would look even better in the larger context. 

Edited 7 hours ago by JohnC

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

"I wouldn't be surprised"  That's not an accusation, it's stating a possibility.  An accusation is saying " I know Adams spread negative information about a player."  Those are vastly different things.  

[Jorcus]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's not unusual to judge trades on the basis of who won or lost the trade. However, especially in this case, that's not how the deal should be evaluated. Based on the fact that JJP wasn't able to come to terms with Buffalo while immediately coming to terms with Utah after the trade makes it abundantly clear that he didn't want to be here. I wanted to keep JJP. But if he was going to be dealt the expectation was that the return would address other areas of need. By that measure, it did. It added a big defenseman and grittier forward. 

Most people who follow the Sabres acknowledge that this roster needed to be reshaped to become a less finesse-oriented team to a harder to play team. So we gave up a young scorer with who was a lackluster two-way player. The bottom line is that you give up something of value to get something back in value. And that's exactly what happened here. 

And it should be noted that if there are additional follow up deal/s that contribute to reshaping the lineup, the JJP deal would look even better in the larger context. 

 

Marty Biron had commented a few times that if Peterka were to hold out during camp or into the season that it would have been bad for this team who is needs to get off to a good start. The Sabres were in no position to go though that this year so away he goes. We often talk about extending players with contracts that did not work out. I remember Adams talking about extensions last summer but nothing happened. Peterka because of his 2nd round contract was the lowest paid player on the team. We certainly could have signed him for what he left for so it's safe to say he really did not want to be here. It seems as if there were a lot of discussions so this trade was not a knee jerk reaction trade. I think a lot of the other players thrown around were probably Peterka plus something or did not fit into Adams plan for roster construction. He was a fun player to watch but if we win more games this year then we did the right thing.  

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

 

Marty Biron had commented a few times that if Peterka were to hold out during camp or into the season that it would have been bad for this team who is needs to get off to a good start. The Sabres were in no position to go though that this year so away he goes. We often talk about extending players with contracts that did not work out. I remember Adams talking about extensions last summer but nothing happened. Peterka because of his 2nd round contract was the lowest paid player on the team. We certainly could have signed him for what he left for so it's safe to say he really did not want to be here. It seems as if there were a lot of discussions so this trade was not a knee jerk reaction trade. I think a lot of the other players thrown around were probably Peterka plus something or did not fit into Adams plan for roster construction. He was a fun player to watch but if we win more games this year then we did the right thing.  

As you keenly noted, a finesse player/team is more aesthetically pleasing to watch than a grittier player/team. Usually, the grittier team succeeds more than the finesse team in the NHL. It's a tough league where you have to handle the rigors of a hard style of play from the opposition, night in and out. 

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

It's not unusual to judge trades on the basis of who won or lost the trade. However, especially in this case, that's not how the deal should be evaluated. Based on the fact that JJP wasn't able to come to terms with Buffalo while immediately coming to terms with Utah after the trade makes it abundantly clear that he didn't want to be here. I wanted to keep JJP. But if he was going to be dealt the expectation was that the return would address other areas of need. By that measure, it did. It added a big defenseman and grittier forward. 

Most people who follow the Sabres acknowledge that this roster needed to be reshaped to become a less finesse-oriented team to a harder to play team. So we gave up a young scorer who was a lackluster two-way player. The bottom line is that you give up something of value to get something back in value. And that's exactly what happened here. 

And it should be noted that if there are additional follow up deal/s that contribute to reshaping the lineup, the JJP deal would look even better in the larger context. 

To the bolded, I will need to see what happens with Byram and how close the Sabres come to the cap before I can draw the conclusion that you have.  I think it is possible that a factor in Peterka wanting out is that we were offering a two year bridge at $6.5. That he immediately signed with Utah might be a sign that the Sabres did not offer what Peterka wanted in a contract, and Utah did.

 

  

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

To the bolded, I will need to see what happens with Byram and how close the Sabres come to the cap before I can draw the conclusion that you have.  I think it is possible that a factor in Peterka wanting out is that we were offering a two year bridge at $6.5. That he immediately signed with Utah might be a sign that the Sabres did not offer what Peterka wanted in a contract, and Utah did.

 

  

Not enough has been made about Peterka being a UFA at 28. They're looking at the AAV and ignoring the term.

2nd contract players who get paid 1st-line money get that money for giving up UFA years on the principle that UFA years are worth more.

For example, JJ's new teammate Clayton Keller gave away 4 UFA years in order to sign a $7.1M AAV deal. Nick Suzuki gave away 4 to sign a $7.8M deal. Lucas Raymond, same deal for $8M.

JJ gave up just 1 and still got $7.7.

 

[Drag0nDan]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not enough has been made about Peterka being a UFA at 28. They're looking at the AAV and ignoring the term.

2nd contract players who get paid 1st-line money get that money for giving up UFA years on the principle that UFA years are worth more.

For example, JJ's new teammate Clayton Keller gave away 4 UFA years in order to sign a $7.1M AAV deal. Nick Suzuki gave away 4 to sign a $7.8M deal. Lucas Raymond, same deal for $8M.

JJ gave up just 1 and still got $7.7.

 

I was looking at puckpedia to try and find a comparable contract?  I guess Byfield in term, but his cap% at signing was 7.1% vs. 8.1% for peterka?  Johnston got a bit more, but he's a center who scores more than JJP.  Beniers had more term too.  

[LGR4GM]

Sal just had Belle Fraser on from Utah talking about the trade and that was a great listen. 

[jad1]

37 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not enough has been made about Peterka being a UFA at 28. They're looking at the AAV and ignoring the term.

2nd contract players who get paid 1st-line money get that money for giving up UFA years on the principle that UFA years are worth more.

For example, JJ's new teammate Clayton Keller gave away 4 UFA years in order to sign a $7.1M AAV deal. Nick Suzuki gave away 4 to sign a $7.8M deal. Lucas Raymond, same deal for $8M.

JJ gave up just 1 and still got $7.7.

 

The deal is based on an offer sheet.  Offer sheets usually max out at five years.  You can't spread the money out more than 5 years on an offer sheet.

Armstrong probably let Adams and Peterka's agent know he was going to offer sheet Peterka.  He let Adams know the number and Adams didn't want to pay , and didnt want the the draft pick compensation, so they figured out a trade.

After the trade, Utah still had to sign Peterka, so Peterka's agent probably held them to the offer sheet numbers.  Peterka could have refused to sign a longer term contract, and would have still been open to offer sheets from other teams.

[dudacek]

Just now, jad1 said:

The deal is based on an offer sheet.  Offer sheets usually max out at five years.  You can't spread the money out more than 5 years on an offer sheet.

Armstrong probably let Adams and Peterka's agent know he was going to offer sheet Peterka.  He let Adams know the number and Adams didn't want to pay , and didnt want the the draft pick compensation, so they figured out a trade.

After the trade, Utah still had to sign Peterka, so Peterka's agent probably held them to the offer sheet numbers.  Peterka could have refused to sign a longer term contract, and would have still been open to offer sheets from other teams.

Interesting theory, although it seems it would have clearly involved tampering of some sort.

I would imagine prospect-loaded Utah would have rather given up the picks, so I guess in your scenario Adams would have used the threat to match as leverage in order to get what he wanted, which reports seem to indicate was very clearly Kesselring?

[MISabresFan]

16 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

Yep that’s what we’ll find out. Not sure JJ will continue at a 14% shooting rate either or put up the points he did last year with a C not as good as tage??

I get it, trying to predict the future.  I try to look at what the players have done in the past.

[thewookie1]

14 minutes ago, jad1 said:

The deal is based on an offer sheet.  Offer sheets usually max out at five years.  You can't spread the money out more than 5 years on an offer sheet.

Armstrong probably let Adams and Peterka's agent know he was going to offer sheet Peterka.  He let Adams know the number and Adams didn't want to pay , and didnt want the the draft pick compensation, so they figured out a trade.

After the trade, Utah still had to sign Peterka, so Peterka's agent probably held them to the offer sheet numbers.  Peterka could have refused to sign a longer term contract, and would have still been open to offer sheets from other teams.

5x7.7mil would put it at compensation of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

So perhaps we need to view the return through that lens

Would we rather have Kesserling + Doan or Utah's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd next year?

[MISabresFan]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

It's not unusual to judge trades on the basis of who won or lost the trade. However, especially in this case, that's not how the deal should be evaluated. Based on the fact that JJP wasn't able to come to terms with Buffalo while immediately coming to terms with Utah after the trade makes it abundantly clear that he didn't want to be here. I wanted to keep JJP. But if he was going to be dealt the expectation was that the return would address other areas of need. By that measure, it did. It added a big defenseman and grittier forward. 

Most people who follow the Sabres acknowledge that this roster needed to be reshaped to become a less finesse-oriented team to a harder to play team. So we gave up a young scorer who was a lackluster two-way player. The bottom line is that you give up something of value to get something back in value. And that's exactly what happened here. 

And it should be noted that if there are additional follow up deal/s that contribute to reshaping the lineup, the JJP deal would look even better in the larger context. 

I wonder, if all these players saying, I don't want to be here, has anyone asked them why?  What is the reason...

 

[dudacek]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

5x7.7mil would put it at compensation of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

So perhaps we need to view the return through that lens

Would we rather have Kesserling + Doan or Utah's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd next year?

Isn't it Kellersing?

 

 

Sorry, not picking on you, just laughing at how it seems pretty clear we have another Byrum (my personal trap) or Reinhardt on our hands.

[kas23]

12 hours ago, TRIP65 said:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-michael-kesselring-josh-doan-trade-jj-peterka-utah-hockey-club

[GASabresIUFAN]

Trade grades

The Athletic -  3 A- for Utah, 2 B and a C+ for Buffalo

ESPN - U A+, Buf B-

CBS - U B+, Buf C+

Daily Faceoff - U A-, Buf C

USA Today - U A-, Buf B

Yardbarker - U A, Buf C+

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Isn't it Kellersing?

 

 

Sorry, not picking on you, just laughing at how it seems pretty clear we have another Byrum (my personal trap) or Reinhardt on our hands.

Kesselring

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Isn't it Kellersing?

 

 

Sorry, not picking on you, just laughing at how it seems pretty clear we have another Byrum (my personal trap) or Reinhardt on our hands.

Pominville

[shrader]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Isn't it Kellersing?

 

 

Sorry, not picking on you, just laughing at how it seems pretty clear we have another Byrum (my personal trap) or Reinhardt on our hands.

In my mind I keep saying Kesserling.  That one rolls off the tongue a lot easier.

 

edit: Unless you're Phil and you already have 3 rings.

Edited 4 hours ago by shrader