mjd1001 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) I didn't know about the NHL edge site, I stumbled upon it today. Lot of tracking data, I thought the Sabres were always one of the faster teams in the league, but not even close. They track individual players, teams, Top speed attained skating by forwards, by defensemen, and the total number of 'burts' each player/team has had over 18mph, over 20mph, and over 22mph. What does the data show? Sabres are, or at least they play VERY slow. Only 14 times all year have they had a player with over a 22mph speed (70% less than leage AVERAGE) . 716 times over 20 (23% less than average) . 3982 over 18mph (5.5% below league average) I didn't go through every team, but in the first chart below, the closer you are to the outer edge of the circle, the higher you rank compared to other teams, the closer you are to the center, the closer you are to worst in the league. Here is the link to the Sabres page on the site: https://edge.nhl.com/en/team/BUF Edited January 26 by mjd1001 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted January 26 Author Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) I looked at last year....below are the charts for last year. Main difference, while this year they are near the bottom for 'speed burts' over 18, 20, and 22 mph......LAST year they were above average compared to the rest of the league in speed bursts over 20, and near the TOP in terms of 'speed bursts' over 18. In terms of skating, last year they were an above average time, near the TOP of the league in how many speed bursts they had over 18, while they have turned into one of the, if not THE slowest playing team this year. Last year's data: Edited January 26 by mjd1001 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Watching their power play says it all for me. Every teams penalty kill becomes world beaters against these guys. Its aweful. No speed in the passing or skating for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, bunomatic said: Watching their power play says it all for me. Every teams penalty kill becomes world beaters against these guys. Its aweful. No speed in the passing or skating for that matter. I'll be honest: The way to fix the power play is to play it as a 4-on-4. You ever see the Sabres when both teams are a man down? They move the puck quickly, they cycle, they shoot. Just play it 4-on-4 and park Greenway or Girgs or Robinson in front of the net to whack at the rebounds. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) The reason for the slower play is the move to try to improve the defense. I don't think they realized that the move to be more defensive would sap the offense as much as it did. Ralph Kreuger would be proud. Edited January 27 by GASabresIUFAN 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoath Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Ralph Kreuger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: The reason for the slower play is the move to try to improve the defense. I don't think they realized that the move to be more defensive would sap the offense as much as it did. Ralph Kreuger would be proud. I’m ok with this take so long as there is an acknowledgment that playing sound defensive hockey doesn’t mean that you play slow or passive or without energy or aggression. We aren’t playing slower because we are trying to be better defensively. Either our players are not ready yet, from an experience standpoint, to play good defence or our coaches are not able to teach it. I said this earlier. We gave up 300 goals last year. You have to go back to 1993 to find a team that gave up 300 goals and made the playoffs. We absolutely needed to get better defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Having sat through the last 4 games of the recent homestand, personally believe a big part of the reason their play seems slow is because when they have the puck they rarely challenge the defender to get past him. Rather they curl back away from the defender looking for a teammate moving into a play. It's very methodical, very much different from what they were doing last year, leads to a lot of standing around, and oftentimes results in a turnover with no real scoring chance from a play that had the Sabre pushed the envelope he could've forced some of the chaos that @LGR4GM is always raving about in prospects he's fond of. It seems they're taking a page out of Patrick Roy's last 2 years coaching in Colorado when they'd have a ton of puck possession but couldn't score any goals because they were too busy controlling the puck to bother actually working it to a high danger area and shooting it. The play seems slow, because it is. But that seems more by design than because the players don't have wheels. Having guys like Tuch working through LBIs too doesn't help with the team speed either. Edited January 27 by Taro T 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Granato changed the system to be slower. More defensive and slower which don't have to go hand and hand. The result is a boring team that looks like crap most nights until they're in a hole and revert back to running and gunning. 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 The only coach on staff who has ever coached in the NHL playoffs is goalie coach Mike Bales. It is not a criticism is the individual coaches to state that none of them have ever helped to successfully implement a system that took a team to the NHL playoffs. This off-season, if they are serious about being a playoff team, experience needs to be added in key areas. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 20 minutes ago, Taro T said: Having sat through the last 4 games of the recent homestand, personally believe a big part of the reason their play seems slow is because when they have the puck they rarely challenge the defender to get past him. Rather they curl back away from the defender looking for a teammate moving into a play. It's very methodical, very much different from what they were doing last year, leads to a lot of standing around, and oftentimes results in a turnover with no real scoring chance from a play that had the Sabre pushed the envelope he could've forced some of the chaos that @LGR4GM is always raving about in prospects he's fond of. It seems they're taking a page out of Patrick Roy's last 2 years coaching in Colorado when they'd have a ton of puck possession but couldn't score any goals because they were too busy controlling the puck to bother actually working it to a high danger area and shooting it. The play seems slow, because it is. But that seems more by design than because the players don't have wheels. Having guys like Tuch working through LBIs too doesn't help with the team speed either. The HC tried to create a different offense/defense balance this year that leaned a little more toward the defense. This team has not comfortably adapted to it. What's the main sticking point? My belief is that the roster makeup is more conducive toward speed and flow while the intended adjustment leans toward more cautious play. When this team plays fast and increases the pace it forces the other team to adjust to them. It seems that this year we are the one's adjusting to the opposition. This team is thinking too much about how to play instead of playing with more spontaneity. In hockey, as in most sports, hesitancy is a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 15 hours ago, mjd1001 said: I didn't know about the NHL edge site, I stumbled upon it today. Lot of tracking data, I thought the Sabres were always one of the faster teams in the league, but not even close. They track individual players, teams, Top speed attained skating by forwards, by defensemen, and the total number of 'burts' each player/team has had over 18mph, over 20mph, and over 22mph. What does the data show? Sabres are, or at least they play VERY slow. Only 14 times all year have they had a player with over a 22mph speed (70% less than leage AVERAGE) . 716 times over 20 (23% less than average) . 3982 over 18mph (5.5% below league average) I didn't go through every team, but in the first chart below, the closer you are to the outer edge of the circle, the higher you rank compared to other teams, the closer you are to the center, the closer you are to worst in the league. Here is the link to the Sabres page on the site: https://edge.nhl.com/en/team/BUF Hard to skate with Speed when we struggle to get through the Neutral Zone… Wow… Look at the O-zone, Shooting, and Goal stats… Focus on Defense this year really affected our Offense… Temporarily during the learning curve, let’s hope… Looking for better balance the 2nd half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 A big part of this is that in any team sport, athletes play slower when they have to think and learn to trust in the system and their teammates. In theory, as they better learn any system as well as learning to trust their teammates, an athlete will play faster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Is it just me, or are these circular graphs really hard to look at. A simple bar graph would be a lot more intuitive. Or better yet a table with the actual numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 They’ve got their professional payouts, they need to learn to be professionals now. Give it time, have some patience: learning how to play hockey takes time. Once they learn the system, we’ll be good It’s only the 4th year of Adams’ tenure. It takes time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Exactly what Granato was saying...too much thinking leads to hesitation. Last year they just played freely. This year they are thinking too much and it's causing a lot of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TageMVP Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said: Is it just me, or are these circular graphs really hard to look at. A simple bar graph would be a lot more intuitive. Or better yet a table with the actual numbers. Normally I'd agree, but this one is simple to understand. I usually ignore the super nerdy graphs with a thousand "advanced stats" tied to them. Nothing beats the eye test, to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Part of this is due to Tuch being hobbled most of the year as well as Quinn being out half the season. Part of it has to do with the terribly executed attempt at defensively responsible hockey. Which both literally and mentally slows them down. Lastly Hinostroza, Jost and Bryson are faster skaters than Greenway, Benson and Johnson. Underachieving is also baked into it as well however I can’t exactly quantify that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 18 hours ago, bunomatic said: Watching their power play says it all for me. Every teams penalty kill becomes world beaters against these guys. Its aweful. No speed in the passing or skating for that matter. Well the power play is the last place I’d look for speed. No one is going to generate 22 mph while skating 18 feet in the offensive zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Got down the YouTube wormhole of fast rushes and stumbled across this. Jack I know but it’s such a fun RJ call. Miss him so much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Newsflash: the Sabres are a team of shooters not skaters. Plus Dahlin who is…a side show not necessarily specializing in anything that helps you win hockey games. Edited January 27 by inkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPuckYourself Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 21 hours ago, mjd1001 said: I didn't know about the NHL edge site, I stumbled upon it today. Lot of tracking data, I thought the Sabres were always one of the faster teams in the league, but not even close. They track individual players, teams, Top speed attained skating by forwards, by defensemen, and the total number of 'burts' each player/team has had over 18mph, over 20mph, and over 22mph. What does the data show? Sabres are, or at least they play VERY slow. Only 14 times all year have they had a player with over a 22mph speed (70% less than leage AVERAGE) . 716 times over 20 (23% less than average) . 3982 over 18mph (5.5% below league average) I didn't go through every team, but in the first chart below, the closer you are to the outer edge of the circle, the higher you rank compared to other teams, the closer you are to the center, the closer you are to worst in the league. Here is the link to the Sabres page on the site: https://edge.nhl.com/en/team/BUF What does this tell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 36 minutes ago, inkman said: Well the power play is the last place I’d look for speed. No one is going to generate 22 mph while skating 18 feet in the offensive zone. Just overall game speed in passing , quick decisions , accomplishing plays. They’re slug slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted January 27 Author Report Share Posted January 27 54 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said: What does this tell? They aren't skating as hard as the did last year....or Their 'faster' players are playing hurt...or They are playing a different style than last year....or. Some or all of the above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted January 27 Author Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Digging through the site a bit more, some interesting things: -Tuch seems to be the one who is peforming worse/slower this year compared to last year. His 'speed bursts' per game are WAY down. -Skinner seems to farther down the list of top speed on the team and also a very low number of 'speed burts' over 20 mph. Way less than I thought. One thing Skinner is good at, he is 7th in the entire league in shots attempted over the past 3 seasons combined from the front of the net (high danger) area. He is the ONE player on this team that is willing to go to the 'dirty' areas and take some punishment for prime scoring chances. -Zemgus has one of the highest top speeds on the team, AND one of the higher number of bursts over 20mph. When you figure in his ice time, I'd guess he leads the team (both last year and this year) in speed burts over 20mph with respect to his ice time. -Tage. Last year he had 210 shots then entire year from the high danger areas (right in front of the net, and between the faceoff dots). This year he only has 84. From those prime areas, he is taking 22% LESS shots per game this year than last year. -Cozens. Everything about his numbers are similar to last year. Skating speed, Speed bursts. Shots on goal location, almost every single metric you can measure is about the same EXCEPT shooting percentage. The worrying thing is his numbers even the year before are about the same. The ONLY thing that is different over the past few years is last years shooting percentage. His game offensively and skating is the same each year. Really hope last year's shooting percentage wasn't just an anomoly. For anyone interested, the highest top speeds recoreed this year of forwards: (League leaders: Owen Tippet 24.21, Braydon Point 24.15, Nate MacKinnon 24.05, McDavid 24.05,) Sabres Forwards: Tuch 22.99 MPH Zemgus 22.88 Thompson 22.64 Peterka 22.43 Cozens 22.36 Krebs 22.36 Mitts 22.16 Skinner 22.04 Robinson 21.92 Olofsson 21.76 Greenway 21.72 Quinn 21.71 Okposo 21.53 Tyson Jost 21.08 Rosen 21.05 Kulich 20.83 Benson 20.80 Highest skating speeds recorded all year by Defensemen: (league leaders: Mackenzie Weeger 23.61, Zach Werenski 23.50, Sam Girard 23.43, Miro Heiskanen 23.36) Samuelsson 22.43 Clifton 21.96 Jokiharju 21.70 Bryson 21.52 Dahlin 21.44 Ryan Johnson 21.35 Power 21.27 Eric Johnson 21.22 Edited January 27 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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