Benson - Keep him here

[ska-T Chitown]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

After the Vegas game last night, I'm guessing keeping him here looks good.

He does something most of our roster fails to do. Help produce chances and goals. 

His skill and drive was evident early on - but it seems like lately he is figuring out where the soft spots on the ice in an NHL defense are. He is either around the puck, hounding the other team, or settling into those little open areas and waiting to pounce. Last night's goal, he squeezes behind the defender and gives him just a little shove to create space, rebound shows up, sick stickhandle - goal. And I would not be surprised if someone told me he had more direct intercepts of passes than the rest of the team combined, like on the Tuch goal. This kid might have been a steal at 9th overall, lol.

[Taro T]

50 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

His skill and drive was evident early on - but it seems like lately he is figuring out where the soft spots on the ice in an NHL defense are. He is either around the puck, hounding the other team, or settling into those little open areas and waiting to pounce. Last night's goal, he squeezes behind the defender and gives him just a little shove to create space, rebound shows up, sick stickhandle - goal. And I would not be surprised if someone told me he had more direct intercepts of passes than the rest of the team combined, like on the Tuch goal. This kid might have been a steal at 9th overall, lol.

He MIGHT've been a steal at 9th overall.  It was highway robbery getting him at 13.  😉

[Flashsabre]

Kid would have been a steal at 4th OA

[RochesterExpat]

After the last few games—and especially after last night—I am convinced Benson is secretly Jeff Skinner Jr. except he’s always channeling angry Jeff and not apathetic Jeff. 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Kid would have been a steal at 4th OA

There were some draft ppl that had Bedard, Fantilli, Benson, Carlsson, Michkov as their top 5 in that order. The March consensus rankings I have from the athletic have him as high as 5th and as low as 13th (pronman). 

[Pimlach]

He is listed at 5'9" and 163 lbs on Hockey DB.  Hopefully he is carrying more weight than that.   I can't help but think that size was a factor in his slide to 13.  

He was in front of the Vegas net a lot last night and he gives up about 4-5 inches to the average defenseman.   Yet, he comes out of the crowd on his skates and making hockey plays.  

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He is listed at 5'9" and 163 lbs on Hockey DB.  Hopefully he is carrying more weight than that.   I can't help but think that size was a factor in his slide to 13.  

He was in front of the Vegas net a lot last night and he gives up about 4-5 inches to the average defenseman.   Yet, he comes out of the crowd on his skates and making hockey plays.  

100% it was size.  (Particularly when combined with the attitude that small guys have to be lightning quick waterbugs to keep from getting killed.  So maybe 85% size, 15% skating if one looks at those as separate issues, but personally see them as sides of the same coin.  His skating is fine, it just isn't as good as what we expect to see in a smaller player that makes it to this level.)

[Crusader1969]

How does keeping Benson with Thompson and Tuch sound 

Skinner to play with Krebs and Quinn as line #3 

[pi2000]

14 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

How does keeping Benson with Thompson and Tuch sound 

Skinner to play with Krebs and Quinn as line #3 

He makes players around him better. 

That said I thought he was best served going back to juniors but he seems to be getting better and better each game as he adjusts to the speed.

[LGR4GM]

Benson is 5'10" 170lbs. That's Sabres training camp measurement. 

Combine put him at 5' 9.75" and 170lbs.

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

100% it was size.  (Particularly when combined with the attitude that small guys have to be lightning quick waterbugs to keep from getting killed.  So maybe 85% size, 15% skating if one looks at those as separate issues, but personally see them as sides of the same coin.  His skating is fine, it just isn't as good as what we expect to see in a smaller player that makes it to this level.)

He's not fast but he's quick and more importantly very agile.

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Benson is 5'10" 170lbs. That's Sabres training camp measurement. 

Combine put him at 5' 9.75" and 170lbs.

He's not fast but he's quick and more importantly very agile.

He is.  But, do you not believe that if he were actual fast that he would've gone higher?  Personally believe, as stated in the post you quoted, that the lack of size had teams wary but the lack of top end speed in combination with the lack of size is how the Sabres lucked into him. 

Give him 1 more inch or make him faster and he doesn't come close to Buffalo's pick.  And it also would've had people not insisting that he NEEDS to go back to the W.  Sometimes 18 yos are ready to play against the best adults in the world.  We seem to have lucked into one of those 18 yos.

And again, he IS a good skater.  But he's not the prototypical lightning quick race past everyone small player that teams look for when they are drafting at the very top of the draft.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Taro T

[JustOneParade]

It has been said that the NHL is an 80% league during the regular season. Benson seems to be a 105% player. I am concerned he will hit a wall around game 60 and find out why everyone else is at 80%. Should I not be worried?

[bob_sauve28]

 

[Flashsabre]

Montana and Brady never had great physical measurables. They just thought the game at an elite level.

Benson is similar. None of his measurables stand out but his brain lets him process and understand the game at an elite level. He just makes others better. I forget which hockey person said that whatever line Benson is on becomes the best line. His ability to strip pucks and read and intercept plays would make him a valuable player even if he didn’t produce offence which he does.

Give him a year or two to fill out and get more accustomed to the league and he will be a real force.

[bob_sauve28]

8 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Montana and Brady never had great physical measurables. They just thought the game at an elite level.

Benson is similar. None of his measurables stand out but his brain lets him process and understand the game at an elite level. He just makes others better. I forget which hockey person said that whatever line Benson is on becomes the best line. His ability to strip pucks and read and intercept plays would make him a valuable player even if he didn’t produce offence which he does.

Give him a year or two to fill out and get more accustomed to the league and he will be a real force.

Would not surprise me if his draft position slipped just because of how young he looks. Stuff like that happens all the time. 

[nfreeman]

It has to be said:  Benson took over a tied road game against the Cup winners in the third period in the way a great player does.

 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

He is listed at 5'9" and 163 lbs on Hockey DB.  Hopefully he is carrying more weight than that.

Conventional wisdom is that virtually every 18-year-old draftee needs a year or three to put on some muscle before playing in the NHL.  Benson is a unicorn in that respect.

[Scottysabres]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

He is listed at 5'9" and 163 lbs on Hockey DB.  Hopefully he is carrying more weight than that.   I can't help but think that size was a factor in his slide to 13.  

He was in front of the Vegas net a lot last night and he gives up about 4-5 inches to the average defenseman.   Yet, he comes out of the crowd on his skates and making hockey plays.  

Size matters....... 

 

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

He is.  But, do you not believe that if he were actual fast that he would've gone higher?  Personally believe, as stated in the post you quoted, that the lack of size had teams wary but the lack of top end speed in combination with the lack of size is how the Sabres lucked into him. 

Give him 1 more inch or make him faster and he doesn't come close to Buffalo's pick.  And it also would've had people not insisting that he NEEDS to go back to the W.  Sometimes 18 yos are ready to play against the best adults in the world.  We seem to have lucked into one of those 18 yos.

And again, he IS a good skater.  But he's not the prototypical lightning quick race past everyone small player that teams look for when they are drafting at the very top of the draft.

If he was 5'11" and 10% faster would have gone top 5-7.

He shouldn't of been there at 13.

[Thorny]

Even the smallest person can change the course of the future 

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If he was 5'11" and 10% faster would have gone top 5-7.

He shouldn't of been there at 13.

If he had those measureables, would've been surprised to see him get past 4.

We're in agreement.

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If he had those measureables, would've been surprised to see him get past 4.

We're in agreement.

Yes. Hope it didn't seem like I wasn't. 

As EP put it, the difference between Bedard's hockey iq and Bensons, is closer than between Benson and whoever you want to put 3rd from that class. 

[LGR4GM]

Here's what Pronman wrote in March when he projected Benson to a middle 6 role. 

"Analysis: Benson has a ton of creativity and offense in his game. He makes high-end skill plays routinely, he’s one of the better passers in junior and projects to be a major asset on an NHL power play. Benson lacks ideal size at 5-foot-9, but he’s relentless in puck battles often coming out with the puck despite his frame. He’s a responsible, detailed defensive player who is an asset without the puck. His frame, combined with a lack of separation speed, is a concern, though, for his NHL projection even though he’s got good quickness in tight. There is a fair amount of risk on his projection, but his strong compete and tremendous skill plus track record of scoring, makes you think there is still a very good chance he can become a quality top-six wing in the NHL." - Pronman 

 

The bold is why I don't think he's good at assessing prospects. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Here's what Pronman wrote in March when he projected Benson to a middle 6 role. 

"Analysis: Benson has a ton of creativity and offense in his game. He makes high-end skill plays routinely, he’s one of the better passers in junior and projects to be a major asset on an NHL power play. Benson lacks ideal size at 5-foot-9, but he’s relentless in puck battles often coming out with the puck despite his frame. He’s a responsible, detailed defensive player who is an asset without the puck. His frame, combined with a lack of separation speed, is a concern, though, for his NHL projection even though he’s got good quickness in tight. There is a fair amount of risk on his projection, but his strong compete and tremendous skill plus track record of scoring, makes you think there is still a very good chance he can become a quality top-six wing in the NHL." - Pronman 

Pronman's the one who has the size fetish, right?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pronman's the one who has the size fetish, right?

To some extent yes. He'll ignore bad in bigger players while focusing almost solely on skating in smaller ones. He also focuses way too much on breakaway speed when that short area quickness is typically more important until you get slow like Okposo and can't keep up with plays. 

Also labeling Benson as having "above average IQ" is criminally underrating how smart he is. Pronman saw a good but small player with no elite speed and ignored all the things that make Benson special imo.

Edited December 17, 2023 by LGR4GM