Benson - Keep him here

[K-9]

What were the Bruins thinking when they decided to keep an underage rookie when he should have been sent back to juniors immediately after training camp? They’ve probably ruined the kid by rushing him. Oh the humanity!

[Flashsabre]

Big boost for Canada

[Pimlach]

Pretty sad conversation regarding Benson, the Worlds, and the job KA did in the off season.  

On teams serious about the playoffs, Granato would probably be fired by now.  On some of those teams Adams would be fired too.  

Benson is already becoming a victim of playing for this backwards run organization.  He looked very good in camp, giving him a few NHL games was fine.  Logically, an 18 year old would then he go back to juniors then to Worlds, etc.    

But this is the Buffalo Sabres and somehow he emerges as one of their better and more reliable two-way wingers on the team.  Pretty sad statement about the rest of them.  

So now people with a hockey conscience and a long term view feel bad that the kid misses out on playing for Canada and possibly winning a championship - all because the Sabres need him now, so that the FO can continue to communicate that they are "trying" to win. 

Let's keep in mind that they need to play ~ .670 hockey to meet the playoff goal. 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Pretty sad conversation regarding Benson, the Worlds, and the job KA did in the off season.  

On teams serious about the playoffs, Granato would probably be fired by now.  On some of those teams Adams would be fired too.  

Benson is already becoming a victim of playing for this backwards run organization.  He looked very good in camp, giving him a few NHL games was fine.  Logically, an 18 year old would then he go back to juniors then to Worlds, etc.    

But this is the Buffalo Sabres and somehow he emerges as one of the better and more reliable two-way wingers on the team.  Pretty sad statement about the rest of them.  

So now people with a hockey conscience and a long term view feel bad that the kid misses out on playing for Canada and possibly winning a championship - all because the Sabres need him now, so that the FO can continue to communicate that they are "trying" to win. 

Let's keep in mind that hey need to play ~ .670 hockey to meet the playoff goal. 

 

I don't understand your reasoning from Benson's perspective. The Benson case is an example that should be celebrated. He outperformed expectations for such a young player/prospect in camp and earned a roster spot. And as you point out he has demonstrated by his play that up to now he is actually one of our better players on this team. I doubt that if Benson was given a choice to play in the Worlds or to stay with the Sabres that he would prefer to play in the Worlds. From a developmental standpoint, it is better that he played in the NHL right now than it would be to dominate at a lower-level competition. If he were a marginal player with limited playing time, I would agree with your stance. But the reality is that he has become a positive outcome in a season that so far has been a major disappointment. In this very disappointing season I'm not going sneer or be dismissive with this pleasant and unexpected outcome.  

[K-9]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 Let's keep in mind that hey need to play ~ .670 hockey to meet the playoff goal. 

I’d be interested in knowing what pace all the teams ahead of us have to play at to meet their playoff goals as well. But I’m way too lazy to do the work. 😂

[Thorny]

21 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The playoffs are toast for this team. 
 

They are what their record says they are.  For a front office that decided to run it back, almost everything needed to go perfectly. It most certainly hasn’t. 

Their top line has one player on IR in Skinner and two others in Tage and Tuch who both came back too early from their injuries and aren’t close to 100%

They have three players in VO, Jost and Murray who shouldn’t be in the lineup mudh less together as a line. 
 

The coaching staff continues to run the Dahlin-Samuelsson Pairing out even though Mattias is best suited for a 3rd pairing. 
That’s when they are not playing 11-7.

The roster is sending its own message by having a 1-9-2 record after wins, they are not good enough. If taking an 18 yo off the roster for 14 days is going to be that much of a detriment to the team, the playoffs were a fallacy to begin with
 

Jiri Kulich has been loaned and the Amerks are actually in the playoff chase. 
 

He would miss five games during the WJCs. Loan Him, let him live a dream of playing for Team Canada. The NHL will be here when he gets back. 

 

 

Truly absurd

The playoffs *aren’t* a mathematical fallacy right now, though. Why not take action instead of just giving up? Your suggestion is to just roll over and die. This isn’t just a detriment to our results this season it’s a poisonous mindset likely to affect future results too. It will invade into the psyche *next* season when things aren’t going our way, and so forth. When is the time to prioritize winning if not now? 

the fact is, taking one of our better players off the team for two weeks *could* make the difference - his age is meaningless semantics. When the margin for playoffs is this thin, of course it could make the difference. What are we even doing here? 

You were well wrong about Levi needing to go back and you are well wrong here. You are stuck on the development hamster wheel 

Only, only in Buffalo do we need to reward expected hockey aptitude and commitment by rewarding a player with a vacation. As if that shouldn’t just be a base standard. Farce. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand your reasoning from Benson's perspective. The Benson case is an example that should be celebrated. He outperformed expectations for such a young player/prospect in camp and earned a roster spot. And as you point out he has demonstrated by his play that up to now he is actually one of our better players on this team. I doubt that if Benson was given a choice to play in the Worlds or to stay with the Sabres that he would prefer to play in the Worlds. From a developmental standpoint, it is better that he played in the NHL right now than it would be to dominate at a lower-level competition. If he were a marginal player with limited playing time, I would agree with your stance. But the reality is that he has become a positive outcome in a season that so far has been a major disappointment. In this very disappointing season I'm not going sneer or be dismissive with this pleasant and unexpected outcome.  

I am very happy that Benson is playing so well and that Adams drafted him.  He looks like a future star.  I see nothing to celebrate in the decision to not let him play in the tournament   

It’s a sad state of affairs that he is so important to the team at 18 years old that he can’t miss 5 games and play for Canada.  It’s a sad indictment on the Sabres, not on Benson.  I never expected him to make the top 6, or even the top 9 if we had a healthy lineup.  Again, this was supposed to be a playoff run.  

He will say he wants to stay with Buffalo.  What he really wanted we will never know.    

What is best for his development has already been decided and there is no going back now.  

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’d be interested in knowing what pace all the teams ahead of us have to play at to meet their playoff goals as well. But I’m way too lazy to do the work. 😂

To reach 99 points (0.603 winning percentage)

Team      Pts Needed   W% Needed

Broons - 56 - 52.8

Loafs - 61 -  56.5

Panthers - 61 - 58.7

Wings - 65 - 62.5

Bolts - 66 = 66.0

Habs - 69 - 66.3

Sabres - 70 - 70.0

Otters - 77 - 68.8

 

Didn't bother with the Metro.

Extremely difficult task ahead of them and they MAY be able to get in with less than 99 points.  Pretty much they need to start alternating 5 game segments of winning 4 of 5 and winning 3 of 5.  

They ARE 5-1-2 in Levi's last 8 starts which is an 0.750 pace.  So, its POSSIBLE.  It just isn't likely at this point.

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

What message was sent to the roster in the off-season when Quinn was injured and everyone knew that the organization had lost faith in Olofsson and with rumblings that Tuch's health was precarious and with the league's deepest prospect pool and with 7-8 million in cap space, they opted for a competition in camp between rookies to fill a vacant top 6 position on the team?  In this, seemingly, most critical of seasons, the message I think was clear:  management did not consider this a critical season.  No help is coming.

Benson the player and person is not the issue:  he is a breath of fresh air.  That he was even an option for this team, in this season, is the issue. Now they are doubling down on their mistake.

 

 

Lol dear lord. He’s been fine at the NHL level. It’s not a mistake to have him here.

So many have lost the plot after all these years of prioritizing development. I don’t really blame you, we strayed quite a ways 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Derrico said:

Yep.  It was an unbelievably frustrating offseason watching GMKA reluctance to do much of anything.  All of these issues looked obvious to most fans yet KA basically sat on his hands.  Frankly, I’m surprised KA isn’t taking more heat right now.  This years failure is more on him than anyone else. 

Over here! I’m the one levelling heat! The one saying KA should break trend by doing what’s best for winning rather than slow playing development. Others are just saying, “well what messages did KA’s earlier in-action send? We aren’t making the playoffs, expect more of the same.”

defeatist, let’s KA off the hook allowing the idea that nothing can/should be expected in season. This place is broken. 

By all means, listen to Brawndo calling it quits on the season after pumping KA’s tires all offseason. Send Levi down. Send Benson away. Always next year. Just get ready for him to be hyped up all offseason next year, and then another refusal to fight for anything when we aren’t, SHOCK, immediately a dynasty. I swear that’s what people think is going to happen: develop develop develop boom dynasty.
 

If we can’t win it all this year, just give up. hey, we weren’t going to win the cup this year anyways.

Pathetic.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not insisting on anything.  Just expressing my view that the threshold for a non-playoff team to keep an 18 year old in the NHL who was not a top 5 pick should be higher than "he's holding his own".

Precisely.  Why the rush?

More “operate as a non-playoff team” self-fulfilling prophecy nonsense.

Benson isn’t losing anything by playing in the nhl. That would be the only reason to send him away. His development wouldn’t be best served elsewhere. If he’s above the level of replacement, literally no reason not to ice him

Edited December 18, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

51 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand your reasoning from Benson's perspective. The Benson case is an example that should be celebrated. He outperformed expectations for such a young player/prospect in camp and earned a roster spot. And as you point out he has demonstrated by his play that up to now he is actually one of our better players on this team. I doubt that if Benson was given a choice to play in the Worlds or to stay with the Sabres that he would prefer to play in the Worlds. From a developmental standpoint, it is better that he played in the NHL right now than it would be to dominate at a lower-level competition. If he were a marginal player with limited playing time, I would agree with your stance. But the reality is that he has become a positive outcome in a season that so far has been a major disappointment. In this very disappointing season I'm not going sneer or be dismissive with this pleasant and unexpected outcome.  

Thank you. People are truly, well overthinking this. People are stuck on the development hamster wheel 

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Over here! I’m the one levelling heat! The one saying KA should break trend by doing what’s best for winning rather than slow pls up development. Others are just saying, “well what messages did KA’s earlier in-action send? We aren’t making the playoffs, expect more of the same.”

defeatist, let’s KA off the hook allowing the idea that nothing can/should be expected in season. This place is broken. 

I get it. Benson has been “fine at the NHL level” or he’s “holding his own”, as you and others have said. I actually think he has been quite good and looks very much like an NHL player. He has been one of maybe 4-5 bright spots this year. He has been a reason to watch games.  But the “we need him to win” argument kinda falls apart when we aren’t winning. 
 

I’m not predicting that Benson’s career will suffer from staying in the NHL. I don’t know the future. But there is a long list of players who made the NHL early and who failed to reach expectations. Generally it is concluded that such players were unnecessarily rushed. There is no player whose development was wrecked by playing junior as an 18 year old. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I get it. Benson has been “fine at the NHL level” or he’s “holding his own”, as you and others have said. I actually think he has been quite good and looks very much like an NHL player. He has been one of maybe 4-5 bright spots this year. He has been a reason to watch games.  But the “we need him to win” argument kinda falls apart when we aren’t winning. 
 

I’m not predicting that Benson’s career will suffer from staying in the NHL. I don’t know the future. But there is a long list of players who made the NHL early and who failed to reach expectations. Generally it is concluded that such players were unnecessarily rushed. There is no player whose development was wrecked by playing junior as an 18 year old. 

The times we do win, he’s often been instrumental. And the times we lost, he wasn’t a significant contributing factor to that loss.

There are 50 games left. It’s way, way too early to give up.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I get it. Benson has been “fine at the NHL level” or he’s “holding his own”, as you and others have said. I actually think he has been quite good and looks very much like an NHL player. He has been one of maybe 4-5 bright spots this year. He has been a reason to watch games.  But the “we need him to win” argument kinda falls apart when we aren’t winning. 
 

I’m not predicting that Benson’s career will suffer from staying in the NHL. I don’t know the future. But there is a long list of players who made the NHL early and who failed to reach expectations. Generally it is concluded that such players were unnecessarily rushed. There is no player whose development was wrecked by playing junior as an 18 year old. 

Fair enough. So how’s this: we need him to keep from losing more. Whatever the increment may be, he makes us a better team with his play. The best players play. It’s that simple. 

[Thorny]

Man, the fans who get on here and scream for better, who get mad after every loss because they still think we can win- those are my peeps. You can see where this long journey through the desert has taken the most effect when you see posters throwing in the towel 30 games in.

The expectations for this season can’t change. That would be the worst precedent of all to set. It was about winning. Get as many as you can over the final 50. That can’t change. It must not change: the soul of the franchise depends on it 

[ska-T Chitown]

If one were to have tea leaves and knew how to compel them to reveal their secrets, Benson being able to play as well as he has in the NHL as an 18yr old bodes quite well for future seasons. And if they are a worse team without him, I agree with the Thorned One - sending him away looks like quitting.

[ska-T Chitown]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Man, the fans who get on here and scream for better, who get mad after every loss because they still think we can win- those are my peeps. You can see where this long journey through the desert has taken the most effect when you see posters throwing in the towel 30 games in.

The expectations for this season can’t change. That would be the worst precedent of all to set. It was about winning. Get as many as you can over the final 50. That can’t change. It must not change: the soul of the franchise depends on it 

I couldn't agree more. Push as hard as you can until math says you cannot make it. Push like hell, fight and scrap. Anything else is embracing the "losing culture" so many seem to think we have. Ice your best 12 Fs, 6 best D, and your best goalie as often as possible.

[Archie Lee]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The times we do win, he’s often been instrumental. And the times we lost, he wasn’t a significant contributing factor to that loss.

There are 50 games left. It’s way, way too early to give up.

For the record, I’m not giving up on this year and I am certainly not stuck on the development hamster wheel. I’m a bit frustrated that the organization has created an environment where an 18 year old can assume the role of the team’s balls.
 

I’ve said all along that if we can be real .500 by as late as game 70 (76-78 points) we will be positioned for a possible strong finish and a run at the playoffs again. That should be the goal. Even better if we can get to real .500 by game 50 or 60.  It’s only happening though if we get healthy upfront and multiple players returns to last year’s form.

I reject the conclusion that Benson has been so good that we needed to keep him in order to have a chance at a playoff run. I think we have kept him at the expense of what would have been better development opportunities. I simply think that his future, and by extension the team’s, would have been better served by him being in junior.  

It’s cool that people disagree. 

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Man, the fans who get on here and scream for better, who get mad after every loss because they still think we can win- those are my peeps. You can see where this long journey through the desert has taken the most effect when you see posters throwing in the towel 30 games in.

The expectations for this season can’t change. That would be the worst precedent of all to set. It was about winning. Get as many as you can over the final 50. That can’t change. It must not change: the soul of the franchise depends on it 

To the bolded, absolutely. 

[ska-T Chitown]

10 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

For the record, I’m not giving up on this year and I am certainly not stuck on the development hamster wheel. I’m a bit frustrated that the organization has created an environment where an 18 year old can assume the role of the team’s balls.
 

I’ve said all along that if we can be real .500 by as late as game 70 (76-78 points) we will be positioned for a possible strong finish and a run at the playoffs again. That should be the goal. Even better if we can get to real .500 by game 50 or 60.  It’s only happening though if we get healthy upfront and multiple players returns to last year’s form.

I reject the conclusion that Benson has been so good that we needed to keep him in order to have a chance at a playoff run. I think we have kept him at the expense of what would have been better development opportunities. I simply think that his future, and by extension the team’s, would have been better served by him being in junior.  

It’s cool that people disagree. 

I dunno - I think (and we disagree and you are right, this IS actually cool ... if only more people remembered how to disagree and have a civil discourse on points upon which they disagree, but I digress) ...I think Benson is nearly immeasurably better off for having spent a productive year in the NHL - assuming it winds up that way when all is said and done. Being around NHL players and coaches and learning how to be an NHL player is so much better than trying to put up stupid numbers against a bunch of kids.

Where I think we might converge is that it is truly a sad state of affairs that the Sabres did not have the NHL roster talent to force Benson back to Juniors. Be it injuries, poor FA acquisitions, or lack of meaningful trades - it is the reality of current Sabres team. By extension, with all things being what they are right now - I would argue it is also better for the team the Sabres have that Benson is in the NHL, both from a) he fits an open role within the top 12 Fs and b) well placed NHL experience >> return to Jrs experience.

[K-9]

24 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

For the record, I’m not giving up on this year and I am certainly not stuck on the development hamster wheel. I’m a bit frustrated that the organization has created an environment where an 18 year old can assume the role of the team’s balls.
 

I’ve said all along that if we can be real .500 by as late as game 70 (76-78 points) we will be positioned for a possible strong finish and a run at the playoffs again. That should be the goal. Even better if we can get to real .500 by game 50 or 60.  It’s only happening though if we get healthy upfront and multiple players returns to last year’s form.

I reject the conclusion that Benson has been so good that we needed to keep him in order to have a chance at a playoff run. I think we have kept him at the expense of what would have been better development opportunities. I simply think that his future, and by extension the team’s, would have been better served by him being in junior.  

It’s cool that people disagree. 

What might those better development opportunities have been?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Man, the fans who get on here and scream for better, who get mad after every loss because they still think we can win- those are my peeps. You can see where this long journey through the desert has taken the most effect when you see posters throwing in the towel 30 games in.

The expectations for this season can’t change. That would be the worst precedent of all to set. It was about winning. Get as many as you can over the final 50. That can’t change. It must not change: the soul of the franchise depends on it 

This franchise has no soul. It is a withered husk of ineptitude and laziness. 

I don't care if they win, hope they do, but realistically I am going to start looking at the draft because without Adams growing up really fast this team will miss the playoffs for a league record 13th year. 

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

What might those better development opportunities have been?

22+ minutes a game playing every important situation. Wearing an A. Being the top-guy. World Juniors. Another deep playoff run with a contending team. Things that most elite 18 year olds get an opportunity to do. The sort of things, if not directly the same, for which Power and Levi were  praised for choosing to do over turning pro. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

This franchise has no soul. It is a withered husk of ineptitude and laziness. 

I don't care if they win, hope they do, but realistically I am going to start looking at the draft because without Adams growing up really fast this team will miss the playoffs for a league record 13th year. 

Ineptitude perhaps and a strong case can be made, particularly in certain aspects.  Won't give you laziness.  

Have some thoughts on why they've been so Jeckyll and Hyde from game to game, but haven't had a chance to compare the thoughts to the data.  Might spend some time next week seeing if the data supports them or if they're just wild hairs.  But, flat out don't believe it's laziness.  They'd have more losing streaks if it was.