Zach Benson's NHL tryout, 2023

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You may not care, but I assure the Sabres do.  As the Sabres pay their core, having effective guys on cheap contracts will help them stay cap compliant.   
 

Right now, I’d also argue he isn’t the right man for the job.  He is feisty and high skilled, but he isn’t strong enough yet for the NHL.

It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that one thing should obviously be the priority over the other 

[rickshaw]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Here’s a bonus to “wasting” a year: sometimes you get to sign a player to his 2nd contract before he breaks out which can save you good money. Casey Mittelstadt is a good example.

People put way too much emphasis on this. It’s a secondary consideration, not a big deal.

💯 

Times have changed in this regard.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Here’s a bonus to “wasting” a year: sometimes you get to sign a player to his 2nd contract before he breaks out which can save you good money. Casey Mittelstadt is a good example.

People put way too much emphasis on this. It’s a secondary consideration, not a big deal.

Yeah, a lot can happen in that ELC window. Like you and others have said, if he helps the team win games, keep him.

I think KA is stalling as long as possible on this decision in order to make an informed one. Benson will be scratched a few times to get him rested and get maximum practice time with the Sabres. If he sits out too many games he could be eligible for a conditioning stint in Rochester, like Shane Wright did last season.

Savoie’s performance in Rochester could allow him to get some Sabres games if Benson gets sent to the AHL or WHL. If they aren’t quite ready they could go to the WHL together. I think it would be difficult to drag this out until the Team Canada World Junior camp unless there are injuries or a goalie is traded.

I’m still hoping that KA is pushing hard to get a similar deal to the Shane Wright ruling for Savoie, making him AHL eligible for the rest of this season.

[Porous Five Hole]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

I don’t care as much about wasting his ELC as I do about whether he’s the best man for the job, this season, among his potential replacements.

Is he? 

You’re asking the right question out loud. Hard to say from my view, but I don’t think there’s an appreciable difference between Kulich & Benson this season. Plus Rousek may be ready as well.

If the Sabres didn’t have options, I might think otherwise. But the sliding of Benson one year makes the most sense to me given the stable of prospects available.   

Edited October 27, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[Taro T]

51 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

You’re asking the right question out loud. Hard to say from my view, but I don’t think there’s an appreciable difference between Kulich & Benson this season. Plus Rousek may be ready as well.

If the Sabres didn’t have options, I might think otherwise. But the sliding of Benson one year makes the most sense to me given the stable of prospects available.   

Of course, losing Benson's contract slide MIGHT result in Kulich's sliding a second year.  There's a lot of moving pieces here.

[#freejame]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

Here’s a bonus to “wasting” a year: sometimes you get to sign a player to his 2nd contract before he breaks out which can save you good money. Casey Mittelstadt is a good example.

People put way too much emphasis on this. It’s a secondary consideration, not a big deal.

I’m lost with the Casey example. Did we burn a year that I’m forgetting about with him?

[Buffalonill]

He will probably score 2 goals tonight So every one changes their mind again

Edited October 27, 2023 by Buffalonill

[RochesterExpat]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Hill probably score 2 goals tonight So every one changes their mind again

Wasn’t he 13th man yesterday in practice?

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

I’m lost with the Casey example. Did we burn a year that I’m forgetting about with him?

It’s not a great parallel because he signed at the end of the year, rather than making the team at the beginning of the year.

So the year he burned was about getting to his 2nd contract quicker, not UFA quicker. (Like Power did)

But my point was simply that he didn’t do anything on his ELC, so his 2nd contract was 1-year minimum wage. Burning a year proved irrelevant.

Consider these 2 scenarios with Benson:

• 18 9 games, 3 points (slide)
• 19 80 games 32 points
• 20 72 games 37 points
• 21 77 games 62 points (ELC expires, negotiates 2nd deal)

versus

• 18 59 games, 13 points (no slide)
• 19 80 games 32 points
• 20 72 games 37 points (ELC expires, negotiates 2nd deal)

The Sabres are in a much better negotiating position in the 2nd scenario

The whole “burning a year” thing came about in an environment where teams didn’t pay players on their 2nd contracts, or sometimes even their 3rd. Players were trying to get to their UFA years as quickly as possible because that’s where the leverage changed and where they could start making real money. Teams would overpay veterans and underpay kids to compensate under the cap.

That situation doesn’t really exist anymore, at least for the young stars and the Sabres are a prime example.

Edited October 27, 2023 by dudacek

[Curt]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

Here’s a bonus to “wasting” a year: sometimes you get to sign a player to his 2nd contract before he breaks out which can save you good money. Casey Mittelstadt is a good example.

People put way too much emphasis on this. It’s a secondary consideration, not a big deal.

Was going to say the exact same thing.  The issue should be whether he can play.  It’s not entirely clear which scenario works out better financially.

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s not a great parallel because he signed at the end of the year, rather than making the team at the beginning of the year.

So the year he burned was about getting to his 2nd contract quicker, not UFA quicker. (Like Power did)

But my point was simply that he didn’t do anything on his ELC, so his 2nd contract was 1-year minimum wage. Burning a year proved irrelevant.

Consider these 2 scenarios with Benson:

• 18 9 games, 3 points (slide)
• 19 80 games 32 points
• 20 72 games 37 points
• 21 77 games 62 points (ELC expires, negotiates 2nd deal)

versus

• 18 59 games, 13 points (no slide)
• 19 80 games 32 points
• 20 72 games 37 points (ELC expires, negotiates 2nd deal)

The Sabres are in a much better negotiating position in the 2nd scenario

The whole “burning a year” thing came about in an environment where teams didn’t pay players on their 2nd contracts, or sometimes even their 3rd. Players were trying to get to their UFA years as quickly as possible because that’s where the leverage changed and where they could start making real money. Teams would overpay veterans and underpay kids to compensate under the cap.

That situation doesn’t really exist anymore, at least for the young stars and the Sabres are a prime example.

Personally, I don't care about 3 years from now. If Benson helps you win now, play him. The goal should be winning as many games as possible. 

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Hill probably score 2 goals tonight So every one changes their mind again

Is Hill playing tonight?  

Edited October 27, 2023 by Pimlach

[Buffalonill]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Is Hill playing to night?  

Maybe .... 

[bunomatic]

Who the puck is Hill ?

[Weave]

15 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Who the puck is Hill ?

A figment of Buffalonill’s typing skills.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

A figment of Buffalonill’s typing skills.

You mean Buffalohill?

[Buffalonill]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

You mean Buffalohill?

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Buffalonill

[CTJoe]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

Was going to say the exact same thing.  The issue should be whether he can play.  It’s not entirely clear which scenario works out better financially.

Big failure by Granato.  He had to know this was going to be a offensive freeforall.  Yet he benches Benson for Jost, Oloffson and even Okposo (who looks shot).  Benson could have helped tonight.  Stupid decision.

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, CTJoe said:

Big failure by Granato.  He had to know this was going to be a offensive freeforall.  Yet he benches Benson for Jost, Oloffson and even Okposo (who looks shot).  Benson could have helped tonight.  Stupid decision.

The Devils are a VERY fast team.  Benson has NHL speed but isn't a burner by any stretch and has great hockey IQ but could see where going into Joisey where Ruff would have the last change could be a very tough game for Benson.  Don't hate the idea of not putting Benson in a situation that he quite possibly wouldn't have thrived.  And, especially with the D and G being shorted, having a F that was only going to get about 10 minutes of game time would have created issues of it's own.

The Okposo decision is on Adams.  Granato isn't going to bench his captain this early in the season.  Much as those watching might wish it to be so.

 

[FrenchConnection44]

For me, Benson lacks speed and strength to be a consistent and exceptional competitor. Sending him down may actually benefit him. Humbled. Get stronger. More physical (Get into the 180 range). Build up his legs and do some speed training. 

In fact that’s the case for several of these players. They need to get stronger, speedier, tougher. They don’t need a goon or fighter or enforcer per se, nor to add more size, but they need to be more hard nosed. A Brad Marchand type. I actually could see Benson being more like that in the future but he’s a lot nicer than Marchand, lol. Still has that pesky, annoying style. 

Relatively speaking, I think we are a soft team. And often lacking discipline on the ice. And a general physicality. Not the only issues. But some of them. 

[inkman]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

For me, Benson lacks speed and strength to be a consistent and exceptional competitor. Sending him down may actually benefit him. Humbled. Get stronger. More physical (Get into the 180 range). Build up his legs and do some speed training. 

In fact that’s the case for several of these players. They need to get stronger, speedier, tougher. They don’t need a goon or fighter or enforcer per se, nor to add more size, but they need to be more hard nosed. A Brad Marchand type. I actually could see Benson being more like that in the future but he’s a lot nicer than Marchand, lol. Still has that pesky, annoying style. 

Relatively speaking, I think we are a soft team. And often lacking discipline on the ice. And a general physicality. Not the only issues. But some of them. 

So where are the Sabres going to find a HOF winger that’s also the leagues biggest pest?  These players don’t grow on trees.  We’ve seen other players come up trying to be that way, the Tkachuk’s for example.  Both of whom were drafted top 6 overall.  
 

Adams knows physical play is big part of the game.  He’s brought in Greenway, Johnson and Clifton.  I would have liked one more forward to bring that type of game.  Hopefully it gets addressed by the trade deadline.  

[dudacek]

I have not seen physicality as an issue at all so far this season.

We’ve seen a number of highlight reel hits, a handful of fights and guys standing up for each other on a consistent basis.

Johnson/Clifton/Greenway for Bryson/Clague/Pilut/Hinostroza/Asplund has made a difference. Dahlin, Samuelsson and Cozens have taken steps in this area.

Can’t say anyone has pushed us around. Tampa, the Islanders and the Sens all tried and failed. The games that have gotten rough are actually the games we’ve won.

[K-9]

The physical aspect of the game at this level was the major concern with Benson, but it hasn’t been an issue at all, really. His issue, as it is with the vast majority of 18 year olds first entering the league, is the sheer speed of it all. Peterka alluded to it the other day as well. Let him continue to practice and play at the NHL level because going back to junior won’t help him adjust to the speed of the NHL game; it will only delay the adjustment. The only thing that will facilitate that adjustment is actual NHL competition. 

[bg17]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I have not seen physicality as an issue at all so far this season.

We’ve seen a number of highlight reel hits, a handful of fights and guys standing up for each other on a consistent basis.

Johnson/Clifton/Greenway for Bryson/Clague/Pilut/Hinostroza/Asplund has made a difference. Dahlin, Samuelsson and Cozens have taken steps in this area.

Can’t say anyone has pushed us around. Tampa, the Islanders and the Sens all tried and failed. The games that have gotten rough are actually the games we’ve won.

Couldn’t agree more. The questions surrounding grit and toughness can be put to bed. I know that’s wishful thinking on my part but they are not backing down from anything. 

[Porous Five Hole]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

The physical aspect of the game at this level was the major concern with Benson, but it hasn’t been an issue at all, really. His issue, as it is with the vast majority of 18 year olds first entering the league, is the sheer speed of it all. Peterka alluded to it the other day as well. Let him continue to practice and play at the NHL level because going back to junior won’t help him adjust to the speed of the NHL game; it will only delay the adjustment. The only thing that will facilitate that adjustment is actual NHL competition. 

Impossible to answer, but what is the drop off between Benson right now and a Jiri Kulich call up?

Kulich is sporting 6G 3A, +4 in seven games played in the AHL this year. 
 

I realize your point is about the development of Benson, but in terms of what makes the most sense for the Sabres in 2023…I think it’s Benson back to juniors to gain some weight and Kulich (or Rosen if more defensively responsible than Jiri) into the lineup.