GDT: Rangers @ Sabres - October 12, 2023 - 7:00PM, MSG-B📺WGR📻

[dudacek]

58 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

This is dangerous framing. If we aren't a playoff team now, NOTHING is guaranteed about next year. 

This is absolutely dangerous framing.

Skinner/Thompson/Tuch/Cozens/Dahlin/Power is the core now and for the forseeable future, their contracts show it.

All except Power are experienced enough that youth is not an excuse for anything.

If they aren't good enough to lead the team into the playoffs this year, why would they be good enough to lead the team into the playoffs next year?

The time is now: the players know it, the coaches know it, the management knows it. They've all said it.

It's about winning.

[Kristian]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I’m with you. Your points are very valid. I still think we are a year away from being a playoff team. Not bringing in a vet goalie yet again is near suicidal. 

By which time Thompson and Dahlin will want out just like Jack, and who can blame them?

Of the three I mentioned, one has a cup, and the other two have never seen the playoffs.

Don’t think they won’t be thinking about just that, if this team misses the playoffs. Again.

[Mango]

20 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Reading between the lines from Adams interviews.   Teams wanted his top prospects like Savoie and Kulich, and not Jost/Krebs.  The Sabres are still learning about what they have with these players  - which is why they played so much youth in the preseason.   Eventually he will have to make some moves. 
 

Players like Orlov, and apparently Pesce this off season, have to want to come to Buffalo. 
 

Veteran players who want to win and will play for less money to join a contender do not consider the Buffalo Sabres just yet.  Same story with the Bills prior to the McBeane era.  If we can just turn the corner to become a playoff team, then we can be a contender.  

I understand some of the aversion to trade. It was a bit ago, but I feel like the rumor was Savoie/Kulich for Chychrun. I cringe a little at that because you either have to sacrifice keeping somebody as part of the core to extend him in 25-26, or you gave up two great prospects for a rental.

I find a situation like Orlov different. We are in a position where we could have overpaid at say $8.25 AAV(?), absorbed that cap hit at minimal cost to prospect development, and protected our goaltender. 

Obviously this isn't NHL 24 and there is a human factor involved. I am more using Orlov as a single example to paint with a pretty broad brush about our approach to roster construction. I am OK with a calculated overspend for one or two pieces for this team to take a big step. 

I don't think there is anymore room for "development". The team will certainly stumble, evolve, grow, get better, but if we miss the playoffs I think we have a new coaching staff next year. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

It doesn't matter what you think is or isn't available or worth it. What matters is, will the Sabres have bottom 5 goaltending for the 4th+ year in a row, or not? 

I certainly understand but I can't actively ridicule them if there wasn't an option this year

[Broken Ankles]

 

It’s how you finish, not how you start.  Give them time to gel.  Other comments.

Cozens was not good.  Missed on the 2/1 chance, horrible possession stats, and 0 for 3 on the faceoff dot during the PP.  

Overall, special teams receive a failing grade. PK was too passive.  Krebs was 1/4 on faceoffs on the PK.  Blocked shots against was a significant factor.  Especially on PP. 

Clifton should probably be playing with Power.  
 

 Greenway had poor advanced stat metrics but I thought played average to slightly above average, although the proper response in the first was either do nothing to get the man advantage or instigate and fight.  A weak cross check was not a valid option.  

[K-9]

24 minutes ago, Kristian said:

By which time Thompson and Dahlin will want out just like Jack, and who can blame them?

Of the three I mentioned, one has a cup, and the other two have never seen the playoffs.

Don’t think they won’t be thinking about just that, if this team misses the playoffs. Again.

It’s ironic that they will wanna leave if we miss the playoffs when they bear a huge portion of the responsibility to get us there.

[Kristian]

3 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

 

It’s how you finish, not how you start.  Give them time to gel.  Other comments.

 

Yeah you’re right.

Being out of the playoffs in december never hurt anyone, as long as they mount a valiant yet hopeless charge in march.

Oh, hang on….

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

It’s ironic that they will wanna leave if we miss the playoffs when they bear a huge portion of the responsibility to get us there.

Much like Jack did. How did that work out? For him, pretty damn sweet.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Kristian
Because

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

To an extent the revolving door for youth should allow some calculated aggression in free agency. Maybe not the greatest example, but take Orlov at 2 years $7.75 AAV. Not the greatest value for the Sabres, but we have the space, and who does it cost us in 24-25 ?Jost and Krebs? OK those are JAGs.

The billion forwards in the pipeline should allow us to not resign some, and over spend elsewhere if needed to improve the team.

To an extent it feels like all the money saving efforts now are so we can keep the exact same 23 players for eternity. 

EDIT: I will say I like the job Adams and DG have done. I am rooting for this one to work. But at the same time the preseason and this last game unlocked some of the last 12 years of baggage. 

 

Orlov is a bad example because he was only going to a contender, or back to Washington. He wants to win a cup and is known to have limited his possible options based on that. 

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, Kristian said:

Much like Jack did. How did that work out? For him, pretty damn sweet.

Yeah, it was ironic in Eichel’s case as well. 

[Sidc3000]

49 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Veteran players who want to win and will play for less money to join a contender do not consider the Buffalo Sabres just yet.  Same story with the Bills prior to the McBeane era.  If we can just turn the corner to become a playoff team, then we can be a contender.  

Exactly. They need to play both sides of the puck consistently AND into the playoffs before they become a destination.  
 

I’m done with the development thing and that they are the youngest team in the league. They are playing with the big boys they need to play like the big boys. Many of these “kids” have played a few seasons already so there is no excuse.
 

I also don’t think we will see the high scoring games we did last season. I have a few reasons for this. First, teams learned that they just need to shut down their offense and it’s a win. That’s exactly what NYR did last night. Second, many players had “career years” for scoring last season. Every year can’t be a career year. Lastly, IF DG is focusing on developing defense this season they are going to have significant less scoring anyway. 
 

Even though some on here think I’m here to be a troll or a pessimist, I want them to win. I want them to be in the playoffs but the biggest I want is for them to be consistent with both. Until then, I will call out what I see good or bad. Last night was the season home opener for a season that is suppose to be playoffs now. I guess they didn’t learn from last season that every game counts, especially in your own conference. They played like it was still preseason. 

[Punch]

I'm not particularly worried but I am fairly disappointed. They looked sloppy and slow. Some of that is due to the rust but the Rangers looked focused and disciplined. I'll also allow that some early calls didn't go their way which frustrated them and they didn't respond appropriately.

I liked the physicality and expect them to rebound quickly. Let's go, Buffalo.

[Sidc3000]

2 minutes ago, Punch said:

I'm not particularly worried but I am fairly disappointed. They looked sloppy and slow. Some of that is due to the rust but the Rangers looked focused and disciplined. I'll also allow that some early calls didn't go their way which frustrated them and they didn't respond appropriately.

I liked the physicality and expect them to rebound quickly. Let's go, Buffalo.

I’m sure they’ll rebound. The slow and sloppiness is unacceptable. These “kids” should have been fired up and want to play balls to the wall. They were physical. I really liked Greenway. He was everywhere. It looked like he was one of the only ones that were ready.  

[SwampD]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm hearing that the broadcast crew used the kid card right off the gitgo. That's a directive from higher ups, so it's concerning to me. That some posters are already eating it up is funny. Did they not factor youth into their 100+ point predictions?

I only used the kid card in relation to the first game of the year. By game 4, there will be no more room to punch it.

 

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Can we stop the Owen Power BS. 
 

He has played one (1) game.  How is one game a slump?   Do you think this comment is an overreaction?  I hope you do. 
 

Many young players have a difficult year after after their rookie season. Can he at least play his 2nd season without all the drama.  

In triumph's defense, OP has not looked very good yet this fall.

 

On another note, the Sabres did not start slowly last year. They were 4-1, then 7-3. I wouldn't care if they had a slow start, then gelled in January.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, SwampD said:

I only used the kid card in relation to the first game of the year. By game 4, there will be no more room to punch it.

 

In triumph's defense, OP has not looked very good yet this fall.

 

On another note, the Sabres did not start slowly last year. They were 4-1, then 7-3. I wouldn't care if they had a slow start, then gelled in January.

They also started 7-11, and missed by a point despite shitting their pants for like 4 weeks in the spring. There is loads of runway. The worst part about losing a game this early is how far away the next one feels. 

[Punch]

33 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I’m sure they’ll rebound. The slow and sloppiness is unacceptable. These “kids” should have been fired up and want to play balls to the wall. They were physical. I really liked Greenway. He was everywhere. It looked like he was one of the only ones that were ready.  

I was curious how they'd react to all the hype they've received all offseason. A lot of what I've heard from them sounds like they may think they've already arrived, even if they're saying all the right things. This is still an incredibly young team so I'm not shocked at the performance. I don't think it lacked passion but it certainly wasn't focused. As far as I'm concerned, I expect this to be a learning experience and they'll right the ship in short order.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

This is dangerous framing. If we aren't a playoff team now, NOTHING is guaranteed about next year. 

If we are a playoff team now, nothing is guaranteed about next year.  Nothing is ever guaranteed about next year, this year, or any year.

 

 

[Mango]

31 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I only used the kid card in relation to the first game of the year. By game 4, there will be no more room to punch it.

 

In triumph's defense, OP has not looked very good yet this fall.

 

On another note, the Sabres did not start slowly last year. They were 4-1, then 7-3. I wouldn't care if they had a slow start, then gelled in January.

I am fine with a slow start if it means this team galvanizes the team.

I won't be furious if the team is something like 10-10-4 (or whatever the math is) at Thanksgiving, don't lose more than 2 or 3 in a row, and win more games than they lose every month through April. 

We had too many 4+ game losing streaks. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mango

[Kristian]

42 minutes ago, Mango said:

I am fine with a slow start if it means this team galvanizes the team.

I won't be furious if the team is something like 10-10-4 (or whatever the math is) at Thanksgiving, don't lose more than 2 or 3 in a row, and win more games than they lose every month through April. 

We had too many 4+ game losing streaks. 

I’d take that any day.

Too many seasons now where we put ourselves in a hole before christmas.

[Randall Flagg]

10-10-4 would not be great. You'd need a division-winning pace the rest of the way to squeak in the last wild card spot. 

[PerreaultForever]

27 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

10-10-4 would not be great. You'd need a division-winning pace the rest of the way to squeak in the last wild card spot. 

The record only matters in relation to what the competition is doing. Most likely we need to be better than that because we are in a strong division but it's hard to say. We have to win the division rival games most of all, and also not give them loser in OT points. 

But it doesn't matter. We are out of step. It's a copycat league and a lot of teams have moved to heavier forecheck first and shutdown hockey copying Florida as well as a shift to big D and choke everything off Vegas style. We want to play wide open guns blazing offense and have no defensive system in place at all. Everybody goes left and we go right so why would anybody think that would work?

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

10-10-4 would not be great. You'd need a division-winning pace the rest of the way to squeak in the last wild card spot. 

Right. I wouldn’t be thrilled with a .500 start through the first 6 weeks. But if it means they it helps them eliminate the 4+ game losing streaks and consistent winning hockey, I would be for it.

105 points is .640 pace. To get to 96 would require 4 months or so of .620 pace. 

It’s not thaaaat crazy.

But yes, preferably we just play consistent hockey all season long. 

 

[LTS]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

A trap game is a game you are expected to win and you look past it to a better opponent. At least that's how I was reared.

I thought he was referring to the 1-3-1. 🙂

[Taro T]

Last year they won the 1st one at home, lost the next 2 in our barn, then won the next 3 there but then when they came back from the injury inducing road trip the wheels fell off.

Stinks that they lost this one, but the goal is 3 W's out of every 5 games.  Not winning every single game.  (Ask the B's how making winning every single game the goal works out when looking at the bigger picture goal of winning Lord Stanley's Chalice. 😉 )  Win tomorrow & then take the home games against the Bolts and Flames and that next game is gravy.

Hoping this game was good prep for Saturday night's game as presuming the Aisles aren't totally changing their stripes with the new coach they will be playing a similar trapping style.  The Aisles are a worse team, so again, hopefully having played the better team has them ready beat the lesser squad.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Taro T

[Thorny]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:04 AM, Mango said:

Agreed. But it also drives me nuts because we have been the youngest for what feels like a bit now. I get it is the plan, but now we are extending these "kids" for pretty meaty contracts. Their has to be some middle ground in expectations between "these are just kiddos figuring it out" and "we have arrived". 

I didn't realize the Sabres are the youngest AND 4th tallest/5th heaviest team in the league. 

https://leftwinglock.com/teams/biometrics/
. 

No, there’s no middle ground 

The expectation in year 4 of a GM term is playoffs 

Going young, I cannot stress this enough: by choice, doesn’t change that. By that logic you could ice a team of rookies every year indefinitely and supposedly never have any expectations. 

[Thorny]

Maybe it takes the bigger guys longer to get up to speed, like Bowser in Mariocart…most of our core guys are more less giants..

regardless, and either way, it’s only one game