Sabres Free Agency Thread

[7+6=13]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He's a 3rd pair defense hopefully Buffalo does not force him in the top 4 when he isn't one ..

So you'd rather they had signed a proven, excellent top 4?  What would you be willing not to have, to get that?

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He's a 3rd pair defense hopefully Buffalo does not force him in the top 4 when he isn't one ..

I don’t know exactly how this signing will turn out, but just some basic facts here.

Clifton actually was a top 4 defenseman for the best team in the NHL (a record breakingly good team actually) until late in the season when they acquired Orlov before the deadline.  Clifton’s shot share numbers from last season look about the same as Hanifin’s.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Curt

[Thorny]

Sabres.

[Buffalonill]

52 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

So you'd rather they had signed a proven, excellent top 4?  What would you be willing not to have, to get that?

That's not what I'm saying I'm happy with the signing if it was just replace to replace the Joker. 

I'm hoping they have a trade for a proven top 4 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Buffalonill

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t know exactly how this signing will turn out, but just some basic facts here.

Clifton actually was a top 4 defenseman for the best team in the NHL (a record breakingly good team actually) until late in the season when they acquired Orlov before the deadline.  Clifton’s shot share numbers from last season look about the same as Hanifin’s.

 

Yeah, we have to figure that Clifford is pencilled in as Power's partner.  The good thing about that is on paper his style of play and his strengths complement Power's.

  They also, especially if they just need to do it for a few games if Clifton or Samuelsson is out, have Jokiharju, (a presumably healthy) Lyubushkin, or Johnson to slide up into the top 4 if necessary.  Which looks a heck of a lot better than sliding Bryson, Clague, or Pilut into the top 4 in a pinch.

Liking this signing more and more upon further review.

And should they still make a move for a Hannifan or Pesce or the like, well what is now a deep D becomes really deep and good.  (Not expecting to see a move like that at this time.)

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Sabres.

Why did this possibly get a red X lol 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

You could say it's boston system that helped also . Like I said it's not bad signing just thought it be for Joker. 

So  they focus on the top 4 

I've realized that what looks like Kevyn being "cheap" and not committing to the top talent is actually protecting the top talent.  He's signed Tage, Muel and Cozens to team friendly deals, will be signing Dahlin shortly by all accounts and will have Power to deal with, along with the rest of the players.  He could bring in a big impact player but that would break the cap, if not this year, then next year or the year after that.

So he's leveraging the Sabres scouting and analytics departments a la Moneyball to identify players that haven't made that jump yet but have a good likelihood to (Clifton) and secure the services of savvy vets that can be coaches on the bench (E Johnson), in an attempt to get as much value out of his remaining cap space as he can.  Between Clifton and Johnson I'm pretty confident that Power will have a better partner than he did last season (nothing against Joki, but he's a marginal 4D). 

I kind of expect to see both Erik Johnson and Connor Clifton paired with Power.  I think Johnson would be preferred but won't be able to play monster minutes, so for most of a game you might see Clifton playing 4D with Power but when crunch time comes and Granato shortens the bench Johnson will be able to play those shifts because for the beginning of the game he was getting short 3rd pair minutes.

The shoe to drop, of course, is who will be moved out and who will be moved down to Rochester.  Ideally you would want to keep all the defensive depth you can; that was last season's lesson learned, but realistically you can't just push players down to Rochester.  A player like Bryson, maybe, Stillman perhaps, but they could get claimed.  Could you pass Lyubushkin or Joki through waivers?  If you did, they would be miserable playing in the AHL.  So what is Kevyn going to do?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, we have to figure that Clifford is pencilled in as Power's partner.  The good thing about that is on paper his style of play and his strengths complement Power's.

  They also, especially if they just need to do it for a few games if Clifton or Samuelsson is out, have Jokiharju, (a presumably healthy) Lyubushkin, or Johnson to slide up into the top 4 if necessary.  Which looks a heck of a lot better than sliding Bryson, Clague, or Pilut into the top 4 in a pinch.

Liking this signing more and more upon further review.

And should they still make a move for a Hannifan or Pesce or the like, well what is now a deep D becomes really deep and good.  (Not expecting to see a move like that at this time.)

Personally I think Clifton was acquired to fill the #5 spot and upgrade the PK and the grit factor.

Johnson is adding size, experience, depth and defence in a 6/7 role.

Joki is going to get flipped as part of the package in a trade for a better number 4 in a move I think Adams is still trying to make.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

That's not what I'm saying I'm happy with the signing if it was just replace to replace the Joker. 

I'm hoping they have a trade for a proven top 4 

 

I get that, I'm saying I don't think we can afford that without giving up something on the roster.  You can't pay Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson and a proven top 4. At some point you need someone like Clifton to be the 4 and you're not paying for it.  

Edited July 4, 2023 by 7+6=13

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Personally I think Clifton was acquired to fill the #5 spot and upgrade the PK and the grit factor.

Johnson is adding size, experience, depth and defence in a 6/7 role.

Joki is going to get flipped as part of the package in a trade for a better number 4 in a move I think Adams is still trying to make.

It's possible.  But until it happens, much like a trade to improve the #2/1B option in net, won't assume that it will.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, we have to figure that Clifford is pencilled in as Power's partner.  The good thing about that is on paper his style of play and his strengths complement Power's.

  They also, especially if they just need to do it for a few games if Clifton or Samuelsson is out, have Jokiharju, (a presumably healthy) Lyubushkin, or Johnson to slide up into the top 4 if necessary.  Which looks a heck of a lot better than sliding Bryson, Clague, or Pilut into the top 4 in a pinch.

Liking this signing more and more upon further review.

And should they still make a move for a Hannifan or Pesce or the like, well what is now a deep D becomes really deep and good.  (Not expecting to see a move like that at this time.)

I just don't see how we could do this.  We'd be looking at being around 43-45 mil on defense.  With Ollie that's 91 mil or so, so if you could deal him but them Mitts is up and that's not accounting for any tenders.  

I'm no cap expert but just doing some quick math.  

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

I just don't see how we could do this.  We'd be looking at being around 43-45 mil on defense.  With Ollie that's 91 mil or so, so if you could deal him but them Mitts is up and that's not accounting for any tenders.  

I'm no cap expert but just doing some quick math.  

Nah, it'd still be under $40MM next season presuming Jokiharju is sent out in the deal for Hannifan and Dahlin bumps to $10 and Power bumps to ~$7MM.  And THIS year it'd still be under $30MM.

It is very doable IF Adams is willing to move enough assets to get Calgary to pull that trigger.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It's possible.  But until it happens, much like a trade to improve the #2/1B option in net, won't assume that it will.

Entirely fair. But I do think such a move fits the plan.

In a lot of ways, last year worked like a final exam for those players who weren’t rookies: Adams wants to build from within, but he also needs to know who is and isn’t part of the puzzle.

The guys who didn’t make the grade are being shunted aside: Asplund for Jost was step one, Olofsson and Bryson for Greenway and Stillman was step 2, and I suspect Jokiharju and UPL should be on alert.

[7+6=13]

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Nah, it'd still be under $40MM next season presuming Jokiharju is sent out in the deal for Hannifan and Dahlin bumps to $10 and Power bumps to ~$7MM.  And THIS year it'd still be under $30MM.

It is very doable IF Adams is willing to move enough assets to get Calgary to pull that trigger.

I dont think you can approach 40 mil on defense though.  What am I missing? Dahlin 10, Power 7, Noah prob 6, Sam 4.285, Clifton 3.33 that's 30.6 and we have about 12 allocated over the remaining 5.  The year after next , we'd have to pay 3 - say 2.5 average to have 8. So that's 38+ mil on defense.  

[Turbo44]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Personally I think Clifton was acquired to fill the #5 spot and upgrade the PK and the grit factor.

Johnson is adding size, experience, depth and defence in a 6/7 role.

Joki is going to get flipped as part of the package in a trade for a better number 4 in a move I think Adams is still trying to make.

Does Ana or Winnipeg have a 4 type dman that they could include in a big trade including Gibson/Helleybuyck? I’m seeing cam Fowler on ANA - NMC though and $$ and Nate Schmidt and Dylan DeMelo (both have NMC) on Peg

[Turbo44]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Nah, it'd still be under $40MM next season presuming Jokiharju is sent out in the deal for Hannifan and Dahlin bumps to $10 and Power bumps to ~$7MM.  And THIS year it'd still be under $30MM.

It is very doable IF Adams is willing to move enough assets to get Calgary to pull that trigger.

Correct and especially doable when your goalie tandem makes less than $2m combined and your GM has bargain deals on Tage, cozens and Sammi

[Curt]

5 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

I dont think you can approach 40 mil on defense though.  What am I missing? Dahlin 10, Power 7, Noah prob 6, Sam 4.285, Clifton 3.33 that's 30.6 and we have about 12 allocated over the remaining 5.  The year after next , we'd have to pay 3 - say 2.5 average to have 8. So that's 38+ mil on defense.  

I don’t think they would be spending an average of 2.5 on the 6-8 Dmen.  More like an average of 1.5 most likely.

[LabattBlue]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Personally I think Clifton was acquired to fill the #5 spot and upgrade the PK and the grit factor.

Johnson is adding size, experience, depth and defence in a 6/7 role.

Joki is going to get flipped as part of the package in a trade for a better number 4 in a move I think Adams is still trying to make.

I would be shocked if it played out like this.  IMO Clifton was signed to be on the 2nd pairing with Power, and Johnson on the 3rd pair.  

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I would be shocked if it played out like this.  IMO Clifton was signed to be on the 2nd pairing with Power, and Johnson on the 3rd pair.  

I tend to agree.  I still think the team/coaching staff is pretty high on Jokiharju too, at least more than many fans are.

[sweetlou]

It just gives DG flexibility. As it stands now my d would be

Dahlin- Clifton

Power- Johnson

Mule- Joker

 

Trades and injuries will change this.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I've realized that what looks like Kevyn being "cheap" and not committing to the top talent is actually protecting the top talent.  He's signed Tage, Muel and Cozens to team friendly deals, will be signing Dahlin shortly by all accounts and will have Power to deal with, along with the rest of the players.  He could bring in a big impact player but that would break the cap, if not this year, then next year or the year after that.

So he's leveraging the Sabres scouting and analytics departments a la Moneyball to identify players that haven't made that jump yet but have a good likelihood to (Clifton) and secure the services of savvy vets that can be coaches on the bench (E Johnson), in an attempt to get as much value out of his remaining cap space as he can.  Between Clifton and Johnson I'm pretty confident that Power will have a better partner than he did last season (nothing against Joki, but he's a marginal 4D). 

I kind of expect to see both Erik Johnson and Connor Clifton paired with Power.  I think Johnson would be preferred but won't be able to play monster minutes, so for most of a game you might see Clifton playing 4D with Power but when crunch time comes and Granato shortens the bench Johnson will be able to play those shifts because for the beginning of the game he was getting short 3rd pair minutes.

The shoe to drop, of course, is who will be moved out and who will be moved down to Rochester.  Ideally you would want to keep all the defensive depth you can; that was last season's lesson learned, but realistically you can't just push players down to Rochester.  A player like Bryson, maybe, Stillman perhaps, but they could get claimed.  Could you pass Lyubushkin or Joki through waivers?  If you did, they would be miserable playing in the AHL.  So what is Kevyn going to do?

I'd bet money you could waive Bryson and no one would claim him. 

[JohnC]

33 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

It just gives DG flexibility. As it stands now my d would be

Dahlin- Clifton

Power- Johnson

Mule- Joker

 

Trades and injuries will change this.

I don't see Johnson on the second pair with Power. At his age, 35, regularly playing extended second pair minutes would be too taxing. There may be end of the game situations where he would be moved up but for the most part I don't see him getting more than 15 to 16 minutes on a regular basis. His value is going to be on the PK. And that will be an important role for him. 

[The Jokeman]

As of today my pairings on D would be

Dahlin  Samuelsson (not a fan of Mattias this high tbh)

Power Clifton

Johnson Jokiharju

Lyubushkin and Stillman for depth.

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

It just gives DG flexibility. As it stands now my d would be

Dahlin- Clifton

Power- Johnson

Mule- Joker

 

Trades and injuries will change this.

Zero chance this happens especially Johnson he's a Borderline. third Pairing defenseman 

[Turbo44]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd bet money you could waive Bryson and no one would claim him. 

Correct - after last season’s performance nobody is paying 1.85m to claim him. He’s destined for Rochester where he belongs and will play well. That’s the obvious move to get our nhl defense contracts to 8. They’ll do the same for Comrie and get the goalies to two. Comrie has a better chance of being claimed but still less than 50% I’d guess