Layout Your Offseason Plan

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

yes, To me it’s crazy to give up 13 for 1 year  the opportunity cost is too high given the quality of this draft 

now if you can get the Jets to take next years 1st and UPL and something   Then yippie ki yay! 

 

 

The moment the calendar turns over to the 2023-24 season that first would become unmovable to you. It’s based on few months, and it’s wildly arbitrary 

trade 13

[Crusader1969]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

“Better management” lol what are we even doing here. Anderson.

id take the vezina guy and win 

Your argument makes it seem like him having one year isn’t A factor, but rather that it rules out him being a viable option in totality. I guess I just don’t understand why 1 year has to have NO value. ONLY the future can matter 

 

Yes cause that’s what the Jets have been doing year after year with said Vezina Goalie.  Winning 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah I think JJP /Quinn are as much untouchable as Savoie/Kulich are right now when it comes to trades.

Untouchable for the holes we are trying to fill sure but surely not “untouchable”. 
 

untouchable is the new generational 

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

Yes cause that’s what the Jets have been doing year after year with said Vezina Goalie.  Winning 

Their roster sucks lol 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah I think JJP /Quinn are as much untouchable as Savoie/Kulich are right now when it comes to trades.

"Untouchable" is relative.  Do expect there is very little possibility either get sent packing.  But if the BJ's were to offer Jiricek straight up for 1 of them, would likely pull that trigger.  He's going to be a 2/3 soon and that would give the Sabres D a 1, a 1/2, a 2/3, and a 3/4 playing with that 1.  With a bunch of possibilities in house already to finish rounding out that D.  (Would still want a Graves or other 4 today to get added this year, but that D would be a bee-yotch to play against in 2-3 years (if not sooner).)

[Crusader1969]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

The moment the calendar turns over to the 2023-24 season that first would become unmovable to you. It’s based on few months, and it’s wildly arbitrary 

trade 13

That’s not true. I see the value in 13 this season.  13 is going to get you a guy who is liking going to be a big part of your team for the next 12 years  

if they were drafting 25th , I’d have no issues moving it 

[Thorny]

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

That’s not true. I see the value in 13 this season.  13 is going to get you a guy who is liking going to be a big part of your team for the next 12 years  

if they were drafting 25th , I’d have no issues moving it 

12 years! 
 

aight I’m sold, shoulda just led with that 

[Crusader1969]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Untouchable for the holes we are trying to fill sure but surely not “untouchable”. 
 

untouchable is the new generational 

Their roster sucks lol 

Really!?   You really believe their roster sucked fro

 2016 till now ? 

[Randall Flagg]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

And before we go too far down the rabbit hole, regardless of what my earlier post implies, I’m not an advocate of trading JJ. I’m more inclined to be a Wookie and keep all my good players when I add other team’s good players.

Im more trying to have a conversation, in the spirit of the thread, on what people might might think is necessary, tolerable, or possible in order to make the kinds of improvements the team needs.

I added top 4 shutdown defender who can kill penalties, a veteran leader who can win faceoffs, a middle-six winger with size and snarl, and a proven starter capable of giving a buffer to Levi - largely by using our areas of depth and strength.

“But Gibson sucks” or “JJ is untouchable” are fair replies. I’d like to see other people’s options.

it was a good mock

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I will speak for myself.  Pesce is #5 in Carolina and will be #4 here.  If we are unwilling to clearly lose a trade to get what we need, as appears to be the case, then we need to value Pesce that way as well.  I think too much about how much Peterka grew last year to trade him for Pesce.  If I am trading Peterka, I want someone back who projects to what I think he is or is already near that level.

When it comes to predicting what players will become, I am reminded of the following saying: Prognostication is very difficult, particularly if it is about the future; therefore, he who lives by the crystal ball soon learns to eat ground glass.

I think this sells Pesce short. In terms of ice time, Pesce was actually #2 on the Canes and they are right there with Vegas in terms of having the best D corps in the league. All of their top 4 play a lot and fairly equally.

Power is more talented and certainly will be better down the road, but I doubt he was more effective than Pesce last year. And Pesce is what we think Mule will become. Plus the fit - defence-first RHD who can match up against top forwards - is ideal.

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah I think JJP /Quinn are as much untouchable as Savoie/Kulich are right now when it comes to trades.

None of them are sure things for me as first-liners and Quinn is the only one I feel very strongly about hitting that level. I do agree JJ has an “it” factor and very well could.

Edited June 26, 2023 by dudacek

[Turbo44]

I sign korpisalo as our 1B goalie

i trade Oloffson and our 2nd 2nd round pick for Tanev

I trade UPL for a 3rd rounder

BPA at #13 and at #39 (I think it’s 39). These draft picks are too far away to target positions. Somebody we don’t expect to fall will fall to #13 and #39. It always happens. kulich last year and JJ the year before are perfect examples.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Turbo44

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Really!?   You really believe their roster sucked fro

 2016 till now ? 

I’m losing track of the argument. I thought it was just no to a 1st, Hellebuyck actually isn’t good, now? The reason the Jets lost is because of him? And I say lost, they went to a conference final and won another round or 2 another year. I’d kill for that kind of losing lol. Regardless, any failures they’ve experienced haven’t been on him. He’s generally carried them much more so than benefited by their makeup 

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Trying to get into the spirit of this thing with my picture-perfect, almost vaguely realistic off-season:

• Trade Victor Olofsson, Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen and the 45th pick in the draft to the Ducks for John Gibson and pick 59.
• Trade JJ Peterka to Canes for Brett Pesce. Pesce signs a 5-year $32-million extension.
• Trade pick 13 to the Wings for pick 17 and pick 43.
• Trade pick 59 and 43 to the Bruins for Trent Frederic
• Draft defencemen Dimitri Simashev and Martin Strbak with picks 17 and 39.
• Sign Johnathan Toews to a 1-year $4 million deal.

Start the season with:

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Mittelstadt Cozens Greenway

Frederic Toews Quinn

Girgensons Krebs Okposo

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Pesce

Lyubushkin Jokiharju

Levi/Gibson

Rousek and Stillman would be the extras with Johnson and Kulich likely the first call-ups.

Peterka has become a Pegula Favorite (Zemgus is another one)

 

Moving Him would require a holy ***** package that has K’Andre Miller or Evan Bouchard coming back. 

[Buffalonill]

8 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I sign korpisalo as our 1B goalie

i trade Oloffson and our 2nd 2nd round pick for Tanev

I trade UPL for a 3rd rounder

BPA at #13 and at #39 (I think it’s 39). These draft picks are too far away to target positions. Somebody we don’t expect to fall will fall to #13 and #39. It always happens. kulich last year and JJ the year before are perfect examples.

Like this 

[Thorny]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Peterka has become a Pegula Favorite (Zemgus is another one)

 

Moving Him would require a holy ***** package that has K’Andre Miller or Evan Bouchard coming back. 

So hold on, “untouchable” IS a thing and the Pegulas are using it? 

in seriousness, so certain players will be valued differently by the GM in trades based on the views of the owners? 

i mean, they are the owners, I guess 

[dudacek]

I think you guys are just trying to pull @PASabreFan away from his tomatoes.

[Brawndo]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So hold on, “untouchable” IS a thing and the Pegulas are using it? 

in seriousness, so certain players will be valued differently by the GM in trades based on the views of the owners? 

i mean, they are the owners, I guess 

 

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think you guys are just trying to pull @PASabreFan away from his tomatoes.

He does have favorites on roster, Jeff Marek was the one who mentioned JJP as one, but with Kim’s Health and the Bills Stadium Agreement, coupled with the trust that they have in Kevyn Adams, they have been hands off with the team. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Brawndo

[Crusader1969]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m losing track of the argument. I thought it was just no to a 1st, Hellebuyck actually isn’t good, now? The reason the Jets lost is because of him? And I say lost, they went to a conference final and won another round or 2 another year. I’d kill for that kind of losing lol. Regardless, any failures they’ve experienced haven’t been on him. He’s generally carried them much more so than benefited by their makeup 

It’s no to this years first   And you’ve helped proved my point in that even if you have a guy like Helleybuck in net, you need a team without many (maybe in none at all) holes in it if you want to win the whole thing   
trading him for the 13th pick is just too rich for 1 season  

i Like my chances to win a cup with Simashev for 12 years over Helleybuck for 1 

 

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

What level do people expect JJ to settle into over his NHL career?

Rick Martin? Thomas Vanek? Max Afinogenov? Clarke McArthur? Paul Cyr?

Nothing in his career so far rules any of them out.

A good second line player on a productive second line. Trading him now while there is so much more upside to tap into will only result in regrets in the near future. The Quinn/Cozens/JJ line is emerging. It would be a mistake to let him go. Based on how KA has operated it is very unlikely that this young German would be dealt. 

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

It’s no to this years first   And you’ve helped proved my point in that even if you have a guy like Helleybuck in net, you need a team without many (maybe in none at all) holes in it if you want to win the whole thing   
trading him for the 13th pick is just too rich for 1 season  

i Like my chances to win a cup with Simashev for 12 years over Helleybuck for 1 

 

 

Where are you getting 12 seasons of Simshev from.  Pretty sure you can count on 2 hands all the Sabres that have played for them that long.

[dudacek]

Just now, JohnC said:

A good second line player on a productive second line. Trading him now while there is so much more upside to tap into will only result in regrets in the near future. The Quinn/Cozens/JJ line is emerging. It would be a mistake to let him go. Based on how KA has operated it is very unlikely that this young German would be dealt. 

Is a good 2nd line player on a productive 2nd line more important to this team than a legitimate shutdown defenceman?

Especially on a team that has Mittelstadt, Quinn, Peterka, Olofsson, Kulich, Savoie and Rosen?

[PASabreFan]

40 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think you guys are just trying to pull @PASabreFan away from his tomatoes.

I'm gettin' that blue ribbon this year. Enough with the ... Wait for it... cusps.

[JohnC]

Just now, dudacek said:

Is a good 2nd line player on a productive 2nd line more important to this team than a legitimate shutdown defenceman?

Especially on a team that has Mittelstadt, Quinn, Peterka, Olofsson, Kulich, Savoie and Rosen?

With respect to JJ, my answer is yes that it is better to keep him. There are other trades that can be made to getting a good second pairing defenseman. I would rather trade our first pick to get a high quality defenseman in a trade. If a top shelf defenseman is not attainable, then the next best option is to add a couple of 4/5 defenseman to bolster the unit. We both agree that our blueline needs to be upgraded. But our defensive deficiencies are also caused by the inadequate defensive play of our lines. Better two-way play by the lines would also improve our defense and play of our goalies. A strong no on dealing JJ. 

[thewookie1]

I'm completed disinterested in trading Peterka or Quinn. It feels like it would be a slap in the face of their whole strategy of building a culture here. Primarily due to the connections JJ and Quinn have along with the other youngsters on the roster.

Also Peterka just strikes as the type of player who will step up in the playoffs and would be very hesitant to trade a young player with "it"  

[5th line wingnutt]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:04 AM, JohnC said:

How our goalie group is seen by the Sabre organization may be a lot different than how it is seen by the majority of the fans. As @Standing Room Smoking Cigspointed out, Vegas is playing for the Cup with Adin Hill as their goalie. He was their fourth goalie taking over for a long list of goalies who were hurt. Is Lehner's contract reflecting much value, especially compared to the production that Hill is giving the team? 

As @LGR4GMpointed out in a prior post, the Sabres, in their end of season run, did play a tighter style of game, and were effective doing so. I'm not arguing that our roster as it stands is complete. It's obvious that additions need to be made on the blueline. Considering our cap space and abundance of assets, draft picks and prospects, addressing that weakness is very achievable this offseason. 

I'm open to upgrading the goalie position. But I don't see it as dire as most others make it out to be. (And I'm not even sure that the GM does either.) Good team defense is as much about the play of the players in front of the goalie as it is about the goalie in the net. That is what Vegas is demonstrating. 

this

[Buffalonill]

9 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

That’s not true. I see the value in 13 this season.  13 is going to get you a guy who is liking going to be a big part of your team for the next 12 years  

if they were drafting 25th , I’d have no issues moving it 

Yeah if only we all knew the future lol.

Ratner trade the pick for a legit player then have a lottery ticket