Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, dudacek said: So Martin? Why do you think so? Because I watched him be a star of the German World German teams , the watched him grow during his year in the AHL. watched him grow this past season to the point of him being one of their best players down the stretch. Then he capped it off by being the top forward at the worlds ahead of Quinn and Tuch the kid has the “it” factor IMHO 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: So Martin? Why do you think so? Would you substitute Quinn, Kulich or Savoie for that deal? Do you see all them reaching Vanek levels? If he didn’t trade away Kulich or Savoie for Chychrun , he’s not going to do it for Pesce. just my opinion. Especially if you have Pesce for just the 1 season and can’t / won’t extend him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Marvin said: No way on Karlsson. He is more of the same type of D and gets a lot of points on the power play. Would you really want to bench Dahlin or Power from the PP? Can always use 2 D on a PP 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said: Can always use 2 D on a PP 🙂 They could, but why would they? They're loaded with skilled F's and if they only use 1 D at a time on the PP they knock 2 minutes off the 120 minutes you expect out of the D-men. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: Because I watched him be a star of the German World German teams , the watched him grow during his year in the AHL. watched him grow this past season to the point of him being one of their best players down the stretch. Then he capped it off by being the top forward at the worlds ahead of Quinn and Tuch the kid has the “it” factor IMHO I'm not saying you're wrong about JJP. I would caution a little because the German team has to rely on a guy like JJP, he's gonna get opportunities. Jack and Alex had different roles and short tournaments are sometimes weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 28 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I hate losing JJ but if kevyn wheels and deals like this to make sure the streak is over I'm not gonna complain. Idk, jjp is a baller. He's a guy that helps you win in June. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: If he didn’t trade away Kulich or Savoie for Chychrun , he’s not going to do it for Pesce. just my opinion. Especially if you have Pesce for just the 1 season and can’t / won’t extend him I don’t think Adams would either, I was wondering if you would trade any of the Sabres youth for Pesce. To me, Pesce is a known factor; his value is established. I’d trade a Max-level player for him any day. I’d bet good money that not all of JJ Quinn Savoie and Kulich will reach Max’s level, let alone Vanek’s. It sounds like (from that group) JJ is the one you’re betting on to hit big, and that’s fine, he could be that guy. But it’s only logical that they aren’t all going to be that guy. You pick the Paul Cyr and trade him for Pesce, you’re going to win that trade big time. Is there any one of those guys you trade for Pesce, assuming a contract can be reached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: If he didn’t trade away Kulich or Savoie for Chychrun , he’s not going to do it for Pesce. just my opinion. Especially if you have Pesce for just the 1 season and can’t / won’t extend him I kinda want to see your answer to the question though. Are they all off limits in your view? All future stars? Realistically, are we verging on a globe trotter level forward group in a couple years? Edited June 26, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 You don't tr a de jj he's going to be Pominville 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, Buffalonill said: You don't tr a de jj he's going to be Pominville 2.0 If he is Pominville, then isn’t a trade for Pesce kinda fair value? Considering we may have a lot of Pominvilles and we don’t have any Pesces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thorny said: I kinda want to see the answer to your question though. Are they all off limits in your view? All future stars? Realistically, are we verging on a globe trotter level forward group in a couple years? I will speak for myself. Pesce is #5 in Carolina and will be #4 here. If we are unwilling to clearly lose a trade to get what we need, as appears to be the case, then we need to value Pesce that way as well. I think too much about how much Peterka grew last year to trade him for Pesce. If I am trading Peterka, I want someone back who projects to what I think he is or is already near that level. When it comes to predicting what players will become, I am reminded of the following saying: Prognostication is very difficult, particularly if it is about the future; therefore, he who lives by the crystal ball soon learns to eat ground glass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, Thorny said: I kinda want to see your answer to the question though. Are they all off limits in your view? All future stars? Realistically, are we verging on a globe trotter level forward group in a couple years? I would say that yes all 4 are off limits. I don’t need to trade any of them to fill the holes in the lineup i need a top 4 Dman, a bottom pair Dman and a goalie I have a lot of prospects, including Rosen and Östlund, I have next years 1st and I have Oloffson, Joker and UPL as trade bait and I have cap space I’ll go back to @Randall Flagg off-season plan Hanifan trade Mayfield UFA Andersen UFA that’s a perfect off season and I won’t be trading any of the 4 guys that are off limits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 And before we go too far down the rabbit hole, regardless of what my earlier post implies, I’m not an advocate of trading JJ. I’m more inclined to be a Wookie and keep all my good players when I add other team’s good players. Im more trying to have a conversation, in the spirit of the thread, on what people might might think is necessary, tolerable, or possible in order to make the kinds of improvements the team needs. I added top 4 shutdown defender who can kill penalties, a veteran leader who can win faceoffs, a middle-six winger with size and snarl, and a proven starter capable of giving a buffer to Levi - largely by using our areas of depth and strength. “But Gibson sucks” or “JJ is untouchable” are fair replies. I’d like to see other people’s options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Marvin said: I will speak for myself. Pesce is #5 in Carolina and will be #4 here. If we are unwilling to clearly lose a trade to get what we need, as appears to be the case, then we need to value Pesce that way as well. I think too much about how much Peterka grew last year to trade him for Pesce. If I am trading Peterka, I want someone back who projects to what I think he is or is already near that level. When it comes to predicting what players will become, I am reminded of the following saying: Prognostication is very difficult, particularly if it is about the future; therefore, he who lives by the crystal ball soon learns to eat ground glass. Bold is a great real-life example of what I mean when I say “bang for your buck” trade philosophy vs ends justify the means. As for my view, Imo once you are trying to “fill in the corners” of your team, these types of swaps become necessary not Peterka specifically btw just in general Edited June 26, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: Bold is a great real-life example of what I mean when I say “bang for your buck” trade philosophy vs ends justify the means. As for my view, Imo once you are trying to “fill in the corners” of your team, these types of swaps become necessary What for corners do the Sabres need to fill at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: I would say that yes all 4 are off limits. I don’t need to trade any of them to fill the holes in the lineup i need a top 4 Dman, a bottom pair Dman and a goalie I have a lot of prospects, including Rosen and Östlund, I have next years 1st and I have Oloffson, Joker and UPL as trade bait and I have cap space I’ll go back to @Randall Flagg off-season plan Hanifan trade Mayfield UFA Andersen UFA that’s a perfect off season and I won’t be trading any of the 4 guys that are off limits Refresh my memory on how you’re getting Hanifin? Was it pick 13? This definitely makes the team better at no cost to the current roster. What contract would it take to convince the other two to sign in Buffalo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: What for corners do the Sabres need to fill at the moment? I’ll use the 13 for Hellebuyck example. I’d pay it straight up A first is arguably too much based purely on value given no extension but the benefit to our actual team next season, not purely within the vacuum of tradezone! but in actual results (not to mention the probable resulting enjoyment factor of this viewer) is immense and imo immensely worth it. Because our pool is so deep this type of swap very much works Edited June 26, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: What for corners do the Sabres need to fill at the moment? In order of what I think is most people’s preference: Legitimate top 4 defenceman. Goalie capable of carrying the load if Levi is not ready Veteran savvy, more grit throughout the lineup Faceoffs Edited June 26, 2023 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Thorny said: I’ll use the 13 for Hellebuyck example. I’d pay it straight up Then he walks after 1 year ? Doesn’t make sense to me. I agree It would be exciting but that’s a huge price to pay for 1 season I think better management would be to sign Andersen and draft Simashev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, Crusader1969 said: Then he walks after 1 year ? Doesn’t make sense to me. I agree It would be exciting but that’s a huge price to pay for 1 season I think better management would be to sign Andersen and draft Simashev. I made a big addition to my post but yes, for “only” one year one measly year, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: In order of what I think is most people’s preference: Legitimate top 4 defenceman. Goalie capable of carrying the load if Levi is not ready Veteran savvy, more grit throughout the lineup Faceoffs I would add more D depth that’s why I want them to add Hanifan and a UFA Dman Bryson should end up being 3rd or 4th call up option when the season starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 27 minutes ago, dudacek said: If he is Pominville, then isn’t a trade for Pesce kinda fair value? Considering we may have a lot of Pominvilles and we don’t have any Pesces? I wouldn’t trade jj at all he's going to be important . Trade the 13th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) “Better management” lol what are we even doing here. Anderson. id take the vezina guy and win Your argument makes it seem like him having one year isn’t A factor, but rather that it rules out him being a viable option in totality. I guess I just don’t understand why 1 year has to have NO value. ONLY the future can matter 6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: Then he walks after 1 year ? Doesn’t make sense to me. I agree It would be exciting but that’s a huge price to pay for 1 season I think better management would be to sign Andersen and draft Simashev. Edited June 26, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Yeah I think JJP /Quinn are as much untouchable as Savoie/Kulich are right now when it comes to trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Thorny said: I made a big addition to my post but yes, for “only” one year one measly year, right? yes, To me it’s crazy to give up 13 for 1 year the opportunity cost is too high given the quality of this draft now if you can get the Jets to take next years 1st and UPL and something Then yippie ki yay! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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