Official Sabres Acquire Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Rounder for Future Considerations

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Don't believe the bolded is quite correct.  Players on 1 way contracts that get sent down only have ~$1MM cleared from the cap (league minimum plus $375k) to let the team bring another cheap player up to take his roster spot.

The league & PA don't want guys getting sent down just to bury their cap hits.  Consider it the Wade Redden Rule.

This is correct and I am aware of the nuance. Don’t believe it changes my point

Not meant to be snark and not directed at you:

Acquiring Bishop’s contract and a 7th-rounder for $700,000 cash is a smart Adminstrative move that gives the Sabres useful flexibility under the cap to make the player moves they want to make. They were always going to be going youth-heavy while trying to acquire the right upgrades on Eakin, Anderson and Pysyk, as well as a few veteran depth guys. This doesn’t change that. It might help facilitate it.

The evidence is above for anyone actually wanting to understand it.

Im done with this thread.

Edited June 14, 2022 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

I guess I don't get the complexity of the mathematics and the rules. Don't really understand why you can't simply sit a veteran in the press box but whatever. Just wait to see what the opening day roster is I guess. 

We won't make the playoffs without filling the obvious holes. 

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess I don't get the complexity of the mathematics and the rules. Don't really understand why you can't simply sit a veteran in the press box but whatever. Just wait to see what the opening day roster is I guess. 

We won't make the playoffs without filling the obvious holes. 

Does the vet even want to sign on if he sees that possibility out there?

[MattPie]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess I don't get the complexity of the mathematics and the rules. Don't really understand why you can't simply sit a veteran in the press box but whatever. Just wait to see what the opening day roster is I guess. 

We won't make the playoffs without filling the obvious holes. 

An NHL team has a limit of 23 players on the active roster and dress 20 per game. Injured players don't count, so signing a vet to sit in the press box takes away player that can practice and rotate in game-to-game. Plus, I'm not sure there are that many vets that want to sit all the time (either because they're getting old, or they want to make an impression for their next contract). I could see some disgruntlement in the locker room if I feel like the Sabres are tanking my NHL career.

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Does the vet even want to sign on if he sees that possibility out there?

Another good point.

[JoeSchmoe]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:52 AM, JoeSchmoe said:

They still need to sign Olofsson and Bryson. That will get them close enough to the floor to cheap out on a goalie and right-handed defenseman. Again I hope I'm wrong and you can throw it in my face if I am. I'll actually enjoy it because that will mean the team might actually be good.

I'm done talking about the Bishop signing, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning I hope they sign Hinostroza as well. I liked him quite a bit last year and I think he could help the team.

[Taro T]

How much different could the last 7 years have gone had Bishop been the guy Murray fell in love w/ while an assistant for the Otters rather than Lehner?  Bishop might've been the guy they initially kept & then the one made available for 21st overall when they couldn't keep both him & Anderson.

[Porous Five Hole]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

How much different could the last 7 years have gone had Bishop been the guy Murray fell in love w/ while an assistant for the Otters rather than Lehner?  Bishop might've been the guy they initially kept & then the one made available for 21st overall when they couldn't keep both him & Anderson.

It was an interesting rabbit hole for me to dive into.  The timing of the trade of Bishop at the 16-17 trade deadline to the Kings didn’t align all that well with the Sabres timeline. 
Buffalo traded for Lehner prior to the 15-16 season (traded for in June 2015). 
Bishop had a career year during the 13-14 season and an outstanding year during the 14-15 season.  Tampa wasn’t going to move on.  In the 15-16 season, Bishop was also outstanding.  
 

His 16-17 season was his worst in three years (2.55 GAA, .911 save percentage), and was battling injuries. The emergence of Vasy was undeniable (his baseline stats of 2.61 GAA, .917 save percentage that year) made Bishop expendable given Vasy’s future outlook.  
 

So the timeline didn’t mesh well.  But I wish it did!

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

It was an interesting rabbit hole for me to dive into.  The timing of the trade of Bishop at the 16-17 trade deadline to the Kings didn’t align all that well with the Sabres timeline. 
Buffalo traded for Lehner prior to the 15-16 season (traded for in June 2015). 
Bishop had a career year during the 13-14 season and an outstanding year during the 14-15 season.  Tampa wasn’t going to move on.  In the 15-16 season, Bishop was also outstanding.  
 

His 16-17 season was his worst in three years (2.55 GAA, .911 save percentage), and was battling injuries. The emergence of Vasy was undeniable (his baseline stats of 2.61 GAA, .917 save percentage that year) made Bishop expendable given Vasy’s future outlook.  
 

So the timeline didn’t mesh well.  But I wish it did!

You missed the point.  If Murray loved Bishop instead of Lehner, then Lehner becomes expendable & might have gone to Tampa.  (Bishop was expendable because Murray loved Lehner & his raw skills & didn't care about any of the emotional/mental/interpersonal side of things.  But if Bishop were the one TM couldn't get enough of instead then Bishop doesn't go to Tampa.)  The Otters would've still had the same need to either lockup Bishop or trade him later on when Anderson held onto the starter reins.  Presuming the Sabres were still GM'd by the guy that now loved Bishop rather than Lehner, THAT is who that Sabres would've gotten from the Otters rather than Mr. PTSD.

How much different would that have worked out?

[Porous Five Hole]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You missed the point.  If Murray loved Bishop instead of Lehner, then Lehner becomes expendable & might have gone to Tampa.  (Bishop was expendable because Murray loved Lehner & his raw skills & didn't care about any of the emotional/mental/interpersonal side of things.  But if Bishop were the one TM couldn't get enough of instead then Bishop doesn't go to Tampa.)  The Otters would've still had the same need to either lockup Bishop or trade him later on when Anderson held onto the starter reins.  Presuming the Sabres were still GM'd by the guy that now loved Bishop rather than Lehner, THAT is who that Sabres would've gotten from the Otters rather than Mr. PTSD.

How much different would that have worked out?

If any/all of your above was accurate, then GMTM wouldn’t have made the decision to trade for Lehner in the first place. The only way flipping Lehner and assets for Bishop was plausible is if GMTM realized he erred in the the original Lehner trade. There’s nothing to substantiate that. 
 

Also, Bishop was Vezina level at the time of your proposed scenario, and there just no way Tampa was moving on in your timeline of events. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Porous Five Hole

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

If any/all of your above was accurate, then GMTM wouldn’t have made the decision to trade for Lehner in the first place. The only way flipping Lehner and assets for Bishop was plausible is if GMTM realized he erred in the the original Lehner trade. There’s nothing to substantiate that. 

Lehner and Bishop were both in the Otters system.  Bishop was deemed expendable when Tampa came looking for a goalie because Murray, who was AGM of the Otters at the time LOVED Lehner.  And he loved Lehner so much that the 1st thing he did when the draft rolled around and teams actually started making trades for the new season that he grabbed Lehner even before he grabbed O'Reilly.

The ####ing hypothetical is how much different would things have worked out had Murray loved Bishop instead.

At no point was it suggested that Murray would trade Lehner for Bishop.  HE traded away Bishop.  In the hypothetical, he trades away Lehner.  At no point while he's w/ the Otters does he have to get Lehner from another team to get Bishop.  And at no point is it presumed that he'd have any interest in Lehner w/ the Sabres. 

And again, while this shouldn't have to be restated but it will be, at no point did Murray love Bishop rather than Lehner.  The hypothetical to consider is WHAT IF Murray did prefer Bishop to Lehner.

[shrader]

They always love their own, the guy they drafted. 
 

I love this hypothetical because all three goalies wound up here anyway… and all at the worst possible time. 

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, shrader said:

Does the vet even want to sign on if he sees that possibility out there?

I'm talking about trading for the unwanted. Unless they have a NMC they have no say in it. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, MattPie said:

An NHL team has a limit of 23 players on the active roster and dress 20 per game. Injured players don't count, so signing a vet to sit in the press box takes away player that can practice and rotate in game-to-game. Plus, I'm not sure there are that many vets that want to sit all the time (either because they're getting old, or they want to make an impression for their next contract). I could see some disgruntlement in the locker room if I feel like the Sabres are tanking my NHL career.

I just don't see this problem. First, chances are one or more could easily end up on LTIR (everybody else is doing it so why not?). Some contracts could be waived and sent down in some cases. I know the Bruins had Wagner and Moore down in the minors for most of the year. That scenario comes up if you have a mid season trade where you add salary and don't need them for the floor. Kids can go up and down pretty easily, so for that 23/20 man thing I see no big deal in sitting a Foligno type with a bigger salary than a Hayden type and if he does contribute bonus. 

The locker room thing is a non issue imo. They will know they are fringe when they get here and everyone else will know that too. But guys like Foligno are pros and leaders. He'd help like an assistant coach and not disgruntle. and maybe you can even move him at the deadline. 

idk, I just can't see how a dead contract is a better move than picking up an unwanted. Going to leave it at that. Adams did it. It's done. 

[Weave]

7 hours ago, shrader said:

They always love their own, the guy they drafted. 
 

I love this hypothetical because all three goalies wound up here anyway… and all at the worst possible time. 

Because Butfalo.

[Derrico]

21 hours ago, Doohickie said:

It blows my mind that what was largely an administrative move by the GM to manage the salary cap is still going strong after 10 pages.

Meh, it’s June.  To me this shows Sabres fans still have energy to talk about a minor move for a team that has been a shitshow for a decade straight.  Gives me optimism for what our gdt May look like next season 😉

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, shrader said:

They always love their own, the guy they drafted. 
 

I love this hypothetical because all three goalies wound up here anyway… and all at the worst possible time. 

Which is what spurred the hypothetical.  Usually it's getting the wrong brother that plagues the Sabres.  This one seems a case of the right goalie (well, jury's out on Lehner 😉 ) but at FAR from the right time.

[Thwomp!]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:54 PM, LGR4GM said:

What penny pinching?

Levi is 1 year younger. 

You think Johnson and Portillo didn't sign because of what exactly?

Because we're the new Coyotes.  Who wants to sign up for that?  They can choose wherever they want next summer.

[Thwomp!]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:06 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

Do you read your own posts? 

I actually read and write them.  You out from under Terry's desk yet?  Why would any top college player, so close to having the option to sign anywhere, sign with this ongoing tire fire?  They could just sign with the real Coyotes instead of Terry's version.

[shrader]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm talking about trading for the unwanted. Unless they have a NMC they have no say in it. 

So you want to trade for a guy that you plan on throwing in the press box?  I know they have to add money, but there has to be a more productive way than that.  It's essentially what they did here with Bishop, but you can't do that 3 or 4 times... well you can, but I don't see that as the plan moving forward.

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which is what spurred the hypothetical.  Usually it's getting the wrong brother that plagues the Sabres.  This one seems a case of the right goalie (well, jury's out on Lehner 😉 ) but at FAR from the right time.

They had to have gotten the right brother at least once.  I'm going to have to start reading up on Steve Hasek.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, shrader said:

They had to have gotten the right brother at least once.  I'm going to have to start reading up on Steve Hasek.

They did: Sam Reinhart.  😉

 

But the wrong brother goes back decades: Dryden, Primeau, Gretzky just to name 3 ottomh.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

I actually read and write them.  You out from under Terry's desk yet?  Why would any top college player, so close to having the option to sign anywhere, sign with this ongoing tire fire?  They could just sign with the real Coyotes instead of Terry's version.

Yup. Can't argue with that logic. 🤪

[shrader]

48 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They did: Sam Reinhart.  😉

 

But the wrong brother goes back decades: Dryden, Primeau, Gretzky just to name 3 ottomh.

Ahhh how could I forget that one? It probably gets blurred a bit since he hasn’t quite caught his father’s numbers yet. 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

They did: Sam Reinhart.  😉

 

But the wrong brother goes back decades: Dryden, Primeau, Gretzky just to name 3 ottomh.

And Patrick, although James made his way here eventually.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

And Patrick, although James made his way here eventually.

Oh, it could probably take up a thread of its own.  Add Nylander to the list as well.