The Right Side of the Defense: Trade Needed

[LGR4GM]

We all know that RHD is a problem where as LHD is not (Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Johnson, Bryson (lots of "sons"))

In an effort to look around the league to find a team that might part with a RHD, I stumbled upon the LA Kings. The kings currently have the following u23 RHD: Sean Durzi 23, Brandt Clarke 18, Helge Grans 19, Jordan Spence 20, Brock Faber 19. They also have Drew Doughty signed long term on the right side with Matt Roy signed for 2 more years as well. 

Now Clarke, Doughty, and maybe Roy are not going anywhere. Durzi is doing decent for LA this ssason. That leaves Grans, Faber, and Spence as possible options they might consider moving in order to improve something elsewhere. Ryan Johnson is a Cali boy (grew up playing in the junior ducks team) and would be the best u23 defender not named Bjornfoot on their left side. 

Any other teams we could target? Who do you think we can get from LA if we want and what would be the cost?

[kas23]

Question is, are they in need of LHDs?

[jsb]

They don't need kids on the right side. They need to get a couple of vets who are more in the mold of big, stay at home guys. I'd go after Scott Mayfield of the Islanders and maybe overpay for Chiarot when he becomes an UFA this summer. You need defensive mentors for Dahlin, Samuelsson and Power. Add a GK and you have a much improved team defensively. It would allow your LHDs who are all puck movers to be able to have the freedom to play their games.

If you want to groom young RHDs, use this draft to stock up and go from there.

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Question is, are they in need of LHDs?

Maatta is an UFA they can easily re-sign but he's their only true veteran LD. They reclaimed Wolanin off waivers from us. So... yes they are.

It'd be curious if LAK would do a true hockey trade and swap Minnesota D-pair just to get their handedness balanced. Johnson for Faber, maybe with us adding a sweetener like... a 6th? Future considerations?

Overall, I'd be more of a mind of trading for a veteran RHD or signing a guy to slightly more than market value in the offseason. Re-sign Pysyk or bring in a Justin Braun for $3.5M for a couple seasons instead of the 1.8 they're making now who can be a mentor for a younger guy and play bottom 4 minutes. In the super short term, I'd see if Bryson were comfortable on the right. He's got the skating ability to make up for some of the difficulties that could be encountered with his stick on the other side.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We all know that RHD is a problem where as LHD is not (Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Johnson, Bryson (lots of "sons"))

In an effort to look around the league to find a team that might part with a RHD, I stumbled upon the LA Kings. The kings currently have the following u23 RHD: Sean Durzi 23, Brandt Clarke 18, Helge Grans 19, Jordan Spence 20, Brock Faber 19. They also have Drew Doughty signed long term on the right side with Matt Roy signed for 2 more years as well. 

Now Clarke, Doughty, and maybe Roy are not going anywhere. Durzi is doing decent for LA this ssason. That leaves Grans, Faber, and Spence as possible options they might consider moving in order to improve something elsewhere. Ryan Johnson is a Cali boy (grew up playing in the junior ducks team) and would be the best u23 defender not named Bjornfoot on their left side. 

Any other teams we could target? Who do you think we can get from LA if we want and what would be the cost?

The right side needs to be addressed the summer, but I think we do that by taking a RD high and acquiring a good veteran.

If a Nylander for Jokiharju type trade is out there, sure, but I don’t think it’s something we have to go looking hard for.

Not in a rush to “fix” our crowded left side. Too many unhatched chickens.

I expect Johnson to get the Jake McCabe treatment: signed this year, get a taste, Rochester next year.

Power, Dahlin, Bryson and Samuelsson will be 4 of our 7 next year. Some will occasionally play on their off-side. Maybe someone shows he’s good at it.

It will be the summer of 2023 at the earliest before we have to make a decision based on crowd control.

 

[LGR4GM]

Some are missing the point. It isn't about the defense just next year but into the future. 

We need to add young rhd going forward. 

[Porous Five Hole]

Can we pry Erik Cernak from Tampa for Tampa cap space?

Big, experienced, defense first, reasonable contract, age 24.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by Porous Five Hole

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Some are missing the point. It isn't about the defense just next year but into the future. 

We need to add young rhd going forward. 

We'll have 4 picks in the top 40. Somewhere in there the BAP will be a RHD. Perhaps twice. A worthwhile veteran UFA RHD will be at least a 2-3 year deal. Then 4 more picks (currently) in the top 60 next season. We'll get them lined up in the draft and build around Dahlin/Power/Samuelsson (and the salaries they're going to demand for the next 10 years).

Dahlin has the talent and Bryson has the wheels -- both are routinely playing the right boards on the PP. I assume Ryan Johnson could manage it as a skater. I seem to recall Power playing the right side recently at Michigan. They'll find someone who wants to play and is good enough on the right side to not be a liability.

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Can we pry Erik Cernak from Tampa for Tampa cap space?

Big, experienced, defense first, reasonable contract, age 24.  

Sadly, they don't need to move him so they can ask for the moon (a top cost-controlled prospect like a Krebs or a Quinn). They're in OK cap shape through the end of Cernak's current contract (end of next season). Then he, Sergachev, and Foote are all up for new deals. Until then, they're going to lose Palat, but they'll be able to patch with veterans who want a chance at a Cup. They got out of their true cap-hell this past offseason.

[Flashsabre]

Laaksonen is 3 points away from leading the AHL in defencemen scoring. He deserves a real look at some point. He is an offensive dman and runs a great PP. Maybe a third pairing RHD who works PP.  They need a top pairing RHD for sure but I feel like Laaksonen is completely ignored as a RHD in the system.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Flashsabre

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Laaksonen is 3 points away from leading the AHL in defencemen scoring. He deserves a real look at some point. He is an offensive dman and runs a great PP. Maybe a third pairing RHD who works PP.  They need a top pairing RHD for sure but I feel like Laaksonen is completely ignored as a RHD in the system.

Primarily because he's a disaster in his own end.  They already have that roster slot covered in spades.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Can we pry Erik Cernak from Tampa for Tampa cap space?

Big, experienced, defense first, reasonable contract, age 24.  

Love this idea.  

[woods-racer]

I would not be surprised if one or both of Johnson/Bryson are traded for an equal prospect that is RHD. A true hockey trade.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Sadly, they don't need to move him so they can ask for the moon (a top cost-controlled prospect like a Krebs or a Quinn). They're in OK cap shape through the end of Cernak's current contract (end of next season). Then he, Sergachev, and Foote are all up for new deals. Until then, they're going to lose Palat, but they'll be able to patch with veterans who want a chance at a Cup. They got out of their true cap-hell this past offseason.

I agree it isn’t dire. But it is very inflexible.  Point’s extension hasn’t kicked in yet and the Lightning have zero cap space today (and have dipped into LTIR).  

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Some are missing the point. It isn't about the defense just next year but into the future. 

We need to add young rhd going forward. 

Like I said, they should find a way with all their high 1st and 2nds to come away with a RHD and a C to help balance out the future of the system. 

Trade would be good to address it in the now term, which we need as well for next season 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Like I said, they should find a way with all their high 1st and 2nds to come away with a RHD and a C to help balance out the future of the system. 

Trade would be good to address it in the now term, which we need as well for next season 

Nemec/Jiricek

Marco Kasper/Filip Mesar

Owen Beck

There's our first round

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Can we pry Erik Cernak from Tampa for Tampa cap space?

Big, experienced, defense first, reasonable contract, age 24.  

Do you mean the guy drafted with one of the draft picks TM sent back to LA in the terrible McNabb trade?

On a serious note, I think the issue of even balance between RHD and LHD is overrated.  Most NHL teams aren't balanced.  The Avs and Bruins, for example, only have 2 RHDs on their roster.  Many teams have at least one LHD who is comfortable playing RD. Sergachev on TB and  Orlov on Wash are just a couple of examples.  I can see Dahlin and Samuelsson with that kind of ability.

For us, Jokiharju is cemented on the roster.  I think Laaksonen will eventually play in the NHL, maybe as soon as late this season.  Despite comments above, according to Amerk's HC Seth Appert, Oskari's D is coming along and is their current focus.  It's improved enough that Appert is now playing him 5 on 5 late in the third protecting leads.

https://pickinsplinters.com/2022/01/12/laaksonen-assists-on-4-goals-in-amerks-win-but-his-defensive-gains-are-more-important/

Appert said:

Quote

“The last few games, I think his offensive game has been below standard and his defensive game has been above, and I like that right now,” Amerks coach Seth    Appert said after his club improved to 19-11. “He is defending much harder right now, he is earning more quality minutes five-on-five because his care level, and his detail level defensively is improving at a good rate right now.”

Don't forget Fitzgerald is a solid defender who has finally earned a callup.  

I have argued for two off-seasons that we need one or two veteran RHD, mostly as mentors for the kids while providing better in zone defense.  I have zero problem with getting a guy like Orlov who can play both side.  

I also have no problem with moving Johnson for added RHD depth in the organization, although I think he also could comfortably move to the right side.  I think Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson are the core LHD going forward.  I also would not surprised if we grab at least one D, hopefully a RHD, in the first round this coming draft.

Edited January 23, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Fitzgerald isn't a reliable nhl defender and I doubt Laaksonen being able to defend well enough to be a top pairing guy.

[GASabresIUFAN]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Fitzgerald isn't a reliable nhl defender and I doubt Laaksonen being able to defend well enough to be a top pairing guy.

We don't need Laaksonen to be a top pairing guy.  We have Power and Dahlin to be our top two pairing puck moving anchors.  Hopefully Jokiharju continues to develop into the role of stay at home D partner to either Power or Dahlin long-term. Honestly I envision Oskari as a puck moving partner to Samuelsson and PP QB on the 2nd PP unit, that is if Samuelsson does ultimately move to the right side.

To say Fitz isn't reliable NHL D is just a little premature.  Lets give him 10 NHL games before we label him as such.  I honestly never though he'd ever play a minute in the NHL, but his work ethic and development has gotten him this far.  I don't think it's to far fetched to imagine he'll continue to improve even at 24 and possibly become a solid 3rd line defender. 

I think your real concern is that Jokiharju isn't good enough to remain paired with Dahlin long-term. It's a reasonable fear and if it comes to pass then there really isn't a RHD prospect in the system worthy of that role.  

In theory you could this as your grouping without trades or UFA signings in a year or two.  

Dahlin Jokiharju

Power Samuelsson 

Johnson Laaksonen

Bryson Fitzgerald

 

 

[dudacek]

I struggle to see how Laaksonen is going to get much PP time on a team that already has Dahlin and Power.

I don’t want to see him with Matty, because I hope Mule is the guy we send out there against the other team’s top forwards and hope to never see Laaksonen in that situation.

Finally, when I hear puck moving, I don’t equate that with offence. I envision a guy who can sidestep the forecheck and turn the play up-ice in transition through skating or passing. Dahlin is fantastic at this. From what I’ve seen, it is the strength of Ryan Johnson’s game. For all his skill on the offensive blueline, Laaksonen is not a defensive zone puck-mover. He’s actually pretty bad at it.

Honestly, the Sabre his game reminds me of most is Will Butcher.

[jsb]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Honestly, the Sabre his game reminds me of most is Will Butcher.

And a poor man's Will Butcher.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Nemec/Jiricek

Marco Kasper/Filip Mesar

Owen Beck

There's our first round

And grab Luca DelBelBelluz with their second 

[Brawndo]

Tampa only has Palat, Ruuta, Joseph and Elliott as FAs. With Seabrook’s LTIR Contract they already have an additional 6.875 Million on the Salary Cap. They really do not need to make a move. 

[Curt]

6 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Laaksonen is 3 points away from leading the AHL in defencemen scoring. He deserves a real look at some point. He is an offensive dman and runs a great PP. Maybe a third pairing RHD who works PP.  They need a top pairing RHD for sure but I feel like Laaksonen is completely ignored as a RHD in the system.

Everyone who watches Rochester on a consistent basis says that Laaksonen’s defense stinks real bad.  Sabres are not going to be in need of a guy who’s best attribute is running a PP. Dahlin and Power are going to be the guys doing that for the next decade.

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I struggle to see how Laaksonen is going to get much PP time on a team that already has Dahlin and Power.

I don’t want to see him with Matty, because I hope Mule is the guy we send out there against the other team’s top forwards and hope to never see Laaksonen in that situation.

Finally, when I hear puck moving, I don’t equate that with offence. I envision a guy who can sidestep the forecheck and turn the play up-ice in transition through skating or passing. Dahlin is fantastic at this. From what I’ve seen, it is the strength of Ryan Johnson’s game. For all his skill on the offensive blueline, Laaksonen is not a defensive zone puck-mover. He’s actually pretty bad at it.

Honestly, the Sabre his game reminds me of most is Will Butcher.

In general, I think that a lot of people use the term “puck moving defenseman” to just mean offense first, often small, defenseman.  In reality, all defenseman need to exhibit puck moving qualities if they are going to be any good at all.  A defenseman can be great at clearing the crease and separating the man from the puck, but if he can’t then make a smart pass to get it out of the zone while under forchecking pressure, then those previous efforts will often be for not.

Being a good defender down low in your own zone is great (and I really mean this, there are many situations where it is vital), but if you are doing other things well, you won’t need to be in that position very often.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Curt

[Rasmus_]

Sign me up on Brock Faber, I loved him in his draft year, and he's doing some nice things this season.  In a loaded situation, you can definitely see that he could possibly be popped for the right return.  However, what is that return. He's the guy for me in terms of prospects.  I do think Grans is a steady presence and a decent shout as well.