Face it, the plan for next year is another tank

[Doohickie]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I like the imagery your Grima Wormtongue comparison conjures up even if I don't subscribe to it

I'm not sure I subscribe to it either, but it makes for a tolerable view of the organ EYE zation.

[Gatorman0519]

Whether it is by design or not, this is a tank. No question.  They are shedding tank 1 core players the same way they cast off the Vets in 2014 to rebuild the culture. Same situation.  The top 3 or 4 next years draft and the year after are crazy good prospects.  I would assume we will be in position to get two of them. 

[etiennep99]

How can we have a Russian 5-man unit when they only drafted 4?...Still the plan seems to go with Afinogenov/Ennis type of exciting players. No more "hardest working team in hockey" allowed in today's NHL.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Optimistic. I agree the plan isn't to just fail and get one player though. Dahlin and power are those players. Whoever they get the next 2 years are probably also higher picks and probably likely make an impact down the line. 

Every year with Jack we were hoping x makes an impact and well be competitive. Now they're starting over with more of a volume approach. 

I don't have to watch a team try to lose. This is a really young team that will hopefully get after it.

Won't those "the next two years" players just replace Eichel and Reinhart, more less? It was never just Eichel, we added to him the Reinharts and the Nylanders and the Mittelstadts and all that, too. In my estimation it was more about a lack of veteran structure around the young players. 

I don't see the veteran structure right now. 

[klos1963]

9 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Depends on what type of goaltending we get. It’s not looking good right now,, but there is still time 

If they're going to tank, not addressing the goaltending issue is a great way to accomplish it.

[Doohickie]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

But what if the "good quality players" are more less here already? And the pick we get next year is another guy like them and not the top 1/2 guys? Won't we be sitting with a core (Dahlin/Cozens/Mitts) now growing as accustomed to losing as Jack and Sam had become, a few years into their losing?

Not if there's progress year-on-year.  This past season was proving to Mitts, Tage, Cozens, etc., that they belong at the NHL level.  This coming season will be the challenge of facing the other teams' top players and learning how to handle them.  As long as they're growth there will be optimism.  The accelerated rebuild after the Reino/Eichel tank failed miserably and the cupboard was left bare.  The fact that we had setback after setback was the discouraging bit.  If Granato can get them to advance through the season and season-on-season, the losing in the beginning will be a thing of the past.

I like to think we can sign Ullmark now and if he can play at the level he's shown he can, but now more consistently, the team won't be as awful as many speculate.  Let the young guys have some fun- turn them loose.  They will be the underdogs and any success they have will be exceeding expectations.  They won't get used to losing, they'll use their struggles as motivation for growth.  Granato's the right coach for that.

8 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Optimistic.

Of course.  Isn't that the foundation of Buffalo sports fandom?

[Thorny]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Not if there's progress year-on-year.  This past season was proving to Mitts, Tage, Cozens, etc., that they belong at the NHL level.  This coming season will be the challenge of facing the other teams' top players and learning how to handle them.  As long as they're growth there will be optimism.  The accelerated rebuild after the Reino/Eichel tank failed miserably and the cupboard was left bare.  The fact that we had setback after setback was the discouraging bit.  If Granato can get them to advance through the season and season-on-season, the losing in the beginning will be a thing of the past.

I like to think we can sign Ullmark now and if he can play at the level he's shown he can, but now more consistently, the team won't be as awful as many speculate.  Let the young guys have some fun- turn them loose.  They will be the underdogs and any success they have will be exceeding expectations.  They won't get used to losing, they'll use their struggles as motivation for growth.  Granato's the right coach for that.

I hate the term "accelerated rebuild" - as if we would have been fine if we had done nothing and just kept picking. It's possible, but adding vets I still argue is a key part of ensuring the proper development of the team - ya they tried to add those players, and perhaps chose wrongly, but they were merely trying to add the players that should have already remained during the "tank". 

It was because of HOW scorched earth the tank was that was the true disaster. See: Toronto, Babcock for a different approach. 

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

If they're going to tank, not addressing the goaltending issue is a great way to accomplish it.

For sure. If Tokarski is the starter day one we are already done 

[Cascade Youth]

“Tank” implies a careful plan to finish at the bottom of the standings in order to acquire high level draft assets.

I don’t think that’s what this is.  I think it’s more reactive and reflexive.  The Pegulas have poured money into this franchise for a decade and have nothing to show for it.  (It’s their own fault, of course, because they’re addicted to rookie GMs who won’t challenge their authority, but that’s another matter.)  

This is just: “Why spend all that money to finish last and have a roster and fanbase full of ungrateful pouters, when we can spend a fraction of that amount and do no worse?”

They’re just ripping it down to the studs to conserve assets.  Maybe it’s to position the team to sell (or sell a part of it) as you suggest.  Maybe it’s just a misguided effort to replicate the culture-building program the Bills went through (nevermind that it would’ve likely been for naught had they not struck gold with the QB).  But what it’s NOT is a purposeful attempt to lose in order to eventually win.  I suspect they truly think they might be more competitive next season - because they’re complete morons.  All of them.  Giving them the benefit of having a plan is not something they deserve.

[Gatorman0519]

From KAs presser definitely Jack on the way out. He said lots of discussions continuing. 

[Zamboni]

Not a tank. The lead up to drafting Reinhart and Eichel was significantly more thorough and depleting.  

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

Not a tank. The lead up to drafting Reinhart and Eichel was significantly more thorough and depleting.  

Is that because we had more capable vet talent to ship off? Actually asking. We don't have many capable veteran players right now

[klos1963]

I think this is less a tank, but more a total rebuild. Same effect, but I don't think we are looking for a savior in next years draft. This wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't been so awful the last 10 seasons.

[PASabreFan]

50 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Darcy's suffering was like getting the chicken pox, and now we're getting shingles.

It wasn't Darcy's idea.

41 minutes ago, Digger said:

This off season is like being on the Titanic and knowing that it's going to sink.  I'm already in one of the few life boats.

Huh. I never took you for one of the 1%.

[Courier-Express]

8 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

From KAs presser definitely Jack on the way out. He said lots of discussions continuing. 

Summertime in Buffalo. 

[Doohickie]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It was because of HOW scorched earth the tank was that was the true disaster. See: Toronto, Babcock for a different approach. 

Agree.  My point is I don't think the Sabres "earth" is nearly as scorched this time.  We have not just one or two stars, but a couple of decent offensive lines and some excellent D.  Not enough for a whole functional team, but enough that at least those players should acquit themselves pretty well.  Now we need to see what the rest looks like.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Agree.  My point is I don't think the Sabres "earth" is nearly as scorched this time.  We have not just one or two stars, but a couple of decent offensive lines and some excellent D.  Not enough for a whole functional team, but enough that at least those players should acquit themselves pretty well.  Now we need to see what the rest looks like.

We have the same amount of talented youth as we did then, now, don't we? At least with Jack here. So he goes, and we try and get the new Jack/replace him with a 1C, and this new team of prospects fares better than the one that failed? I still come back to it being about capable veteran insulation during the "development" years if that's what next year is supposed to be, if it's not supposed to be outright losing like last time. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Thorny

[Marvin]

50 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Is that because we had more capable vet talent to ship off? Actually asking. We don't have many capable veteran players right now

No.  We had 3 capable NHL-quality defencemen in 2014-5.  When healthy, we had 2 lines of NHL-quality forwards.  That line-up was designed to regress and fall apart.  The fact that it took a herculean effort by XGMTM to sink them is a testimony to the players and coaches for working as hard as they did.

This time, with only mediocre signings, we can ice 6 capable NHL-quality defencemen and 4 lines of NHL-quality forwards.  That is a huge step up.

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We have the same amount of talented youth as we did then, now, don't we? At least with Jack here. So he goes, and we try and get the new Jack/replace him with a 1C, and this new team of prospects fares better than the one that failed? I still come back to it being about capable veteran insulation during the "development" years if that's what next year is supposed to be, if it's not supposed to be outright losing like last time. 

The 2013-4 team had about 2/3 of the line-up before the trade deadline being capable, NHL-quality players.  This year, the Sabres can ice a team which is clearly superior to that one and be more like the 2012-3 team.  Still not playoff calibre, but competent.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

No.  We had 3 capable NHL-quality defencemen in 2014-5.  When healthy, we had 2 lines of NHL-quality forwards.  That line-up was designed to regress and fall apart.  The fact that it took a herculean effort by XGMTM to sink them is a testimony to the players and coaches for working as hard as they did.

This time, with only mediocre signings, we can ice 6 capable NHL-quality defencemen and 4 lines of NHL-quality forwards.  That is a huge step up.

The 2013-4 team had about 2/3 of the line-up before the trade deadline being capable, NHL-quality players.  This year, the Sabres can ice a team which is clearly superior to that one and be more like the 2012-3 team.  Still not playoff calibre, but competent.

Ya, i was talking for the sell off itself. We had to actively sell off more legit talent so it makes the tank appear more severe. Weren't we playing at a near tank pace last year for long stretches, anyway?

Subtract Reinhart. 

Add an easier schedule?

See what else happens

Edited July 24, 2021 by Thorny

[jsb]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Think about it
 

• This team currently has a cap hit of $43 million with only 4 RFAs to sign. Those UFAs will cost $10-12 million which barely gets them to the floor.
• The just traded their #1 defenceman by usage and their highest scoring forward for a sixth defenceman and a bucket of assets that won’t see Buffalo for two more years at the earliest.
• The guy they just took first overall is not likely playing until next spring.
• Their franchise player will not be playing for them next season and they are working hard to trade him for a package of futures.
• Their top two remaining defencemen have not seen their 22nd birthday.
• Their next two have played 50 NHL games combined.
• Their top two centres have a combined for 31 NHL career goals
• They promoted an inexpensive development specialist to be head coach
• And they do not have an NHL goalie under contract.
• Next year promises to have some elite talent at the top of the draft.

In my view, they haven’t announced it, and they may pick up the odd veteran to soften the blow, but we would be foolish to think they are doing anything but tanking next year while possibly preparing a clean, fresh slate for a new buyer.

 

To the moderators: Can I sue this guy for copyright infringement. I called this out a couple of days ago, I asked if we were in denial of being in the mists of another Tank and called it Tank 2. I don't even get a byline in this and everyone said I was dead wrong. 

I kind of think we're in a Monkee's show and song: Take the last Tank to Winsville and I'll meet you at the Keybanc, you can be here by four thirty because I've made your reservation, For next year's lottery... Oh no no no, Oh no no no, Oh no no no

😂🤣😂

 

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, i was talking for the sell off itself. We had to actively sell off more legit talent so it makes the tank appear more severe. Weren't we playing at a near tank place last year for long stretches, anyway?

Subtract Reinhart. 

Add an easier schedule?

See what else happens

Yes.  The performance for the last 22 games is the only thing which stopped it.

We have a ways to go before this team's line-up approaches Tank levels.  For1 one, Dahlin, Jokiharu, Bryson, and Miller already make for a better defence.  Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson, Skinner-Cozens-Olofsson, Bjork-Girgensons-Okposo is already a line better.  We can actually go up with competent signings.

[jsb]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Agree.  My point is I don't think the Sabres "earth" is nearly as scorched this time.  We have not just one or two stars, but a couple of decent offensive lines and some excellent D.  Not enough for a whole functional team, but enough that at least those players should acquit themselves pretty well.  Now we need to see what the rest looks like.

Well you are the optimistic one this time, excellent D??..... their all under 23 years of age....... Couple of decent lines?? by what parameter the final 20 games of last year?? I'm hoping this works out also but I doubt it comes to fruition soon

[Cheektorado]

"Emergency, everyone to get from street".

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, YouDigg said:

You nailed it.

Unfortunately this is stage one of another long-term rebuilding plan.  We just traded two of our best players and Jack is inevitably next, so there is no question we will suck again next season.  It is what it is.  Go Bills! 

Welcome to the board.

[Rasmus_]

My question is, if we were taking russians heavy, how was Svechkov seriously in the wheelhouse for 14.