Face it, the plan for next year is another tank

[apuszczalowski]

33 minutes ago, bills_fan_in_raleigh said:

Maybe someday they will hire a real coach and GM alike they did with the Bills.  KA is not a NHL GM

To be fair, The coach and GM they got at the time weren't established guys with experience, both were first time coach/GMs (Beane was an assistant and McDermott a Co-Ordinator) so they did get lucky these guys have worked out so far.

They have been trying to do the same thing with their NHL coach/GM signing too

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

So are we at the point when the question is not if Adams is tanking or not, but are they tanking intentionally or is it a result of rank incompetence?

It feels similar to when I go to a Dairy Queen and see nothing but immature teenagers working there.  No competent adult management to be found and the place is a sticky, filthy mess with terrible service.  Our Sabres are the DQ of the NHL.

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

It feels similar to when I go to a Dairy Queen and see nothing but immature teenagers working there.  No competent adult management to be found and the place is a sticky, filthy mess with terrible service.  Our Sabres are the DQ of the NHL.

I think they are more comparable to a  'Waffle House'

[Thorny]

Asplund - Mittelstadt - Thompson

Olofsson - Cozens - Bjork

Skinner - Ruotsalainen - Hinostroza

Caggiula - Girgensons - Okposo

Dahlin Jokiharju

Hagg - Miller

Butcher - Pysyk

Tokarski

UPL

 

- roster as stands 

(still won't count Jack lol)

[DarthEbriate]

^ Skinner still can't get in the top 6. Yippppeeeeee!

[Curt]

I honestly didn’t think it would be this ugly.  They are definitely gunning for a top-3 pick.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I honestly didn’t think it would be this ugly.  They are definitely gunning for a top-3 pick.

There's obviously still a caveat of there still being time. But my question is what assets are we going to use to acquire good players? We aren't dealing futures right now. Our big trade pieces are cashed except Jack and we've only heard KA is targeting futures. Are their good players left to sign? This could be more less the look.

Sometimes those random acquisitions just pop up though later in the summer, have to hope for that 

[Curt]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

There's obviously still a caveat of there still being time. But my question is what assets are we going to use to acquire good players? We aren't dealing futures right now. Our big trade pieces are cashed except Jack and we've only heard KA is targeting futures. Are their good players left to sign? This could be more less the look.

Sometimes those random acquisitions just pop up though later in the summer, have to hope for that 

I’m sure there will be a couple more signings, and they might acquire an NHL player in a John Eichel trade, but they haven’t acquired anyone to insulate the younger players at all.

I was really hoping that Ullmark would resign and they would acquire another decent goalie.  I can understand letting the kids learn, but being out of 75% games before the 3rd period because trash goalies allowed 3 bad goals is not going to help the kids learn how to compete in the NHL.  They need to be in most games.

[Gatorman0519]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Asplund - Mittelstadt - Thompson

Olofsson - Cozens - Bjork

Skinner - Ruotsalainen - Hinostroza

Caggiula - Girgensons - Okposo

Dahlin Jokiharju

Hagg - Miller

Butcher - Pysyk

Tokarski

UPL

 

- roster as stands 

(still won't count Jack lol)

50 points next year.  And I am being positive.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

50 points next year.  And I am being positive.

Not without goaltending.  As soon as Jack is traded, this is a 30 point team.

[Gatorman0519]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not without goaltending.  As soon as Jack is traded, this is a 30 point team.

You might be right.

[Thorny]

In the end, at this hour today we are still sitting in the same place overall as we were yesterday: needing a massive haul for Jack Eichel to make this thing seem plausible. It needs to address a few things. At the bare, bare minimum - a 1C prospect. 

The signings and lack-thereof today illustrate what kind of team we are going to be next year (and probably for a couple) and what we are targeting, but I think they've been pretty clear all along they are not prioritizing winning. We've perhaps seen the extent of what that looks like today. They are focused on the long-game, so having already expressed disappointment they aren't going to be a good team next year, and I that I don't like the strategy of the route they are going, it's all about maximizing that trade at this time. 

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

In the end, at this hour today we are still sitting in the same place overall as we were yesterday: needing a massive haul for Jack Eichel to make this thing seem plausible. It needs to address a few things. At the bare, bare minimum - a 1C prospect. 

The signings and lack-thereof today illustrate what kind of team we are going to be next year (and probably for a couple) and what we are targeting, but I think they've been pretty clear all along they are not prioritizing winning. We've perhaps seen the extent of what that looks like today. They are focused on the long-game, so having already expressed disappointment they aren't going to be a good team next year, and I that I don't like the strategy of the route they are going, it's all about maximizing that trade at this time. 

I wouldn't fret about it.  It won't matter.  They are making the same mistake they made the first time. 

[DarthEbriate]

I get it. When Nolan was re-hired it was because he'd get the guys riled up and ready to play and he knew he was being hired as a sacrificial lamb for the tank since it had been the stated goal of ownership and the GM.

But doing this to Granato just seems cruel. Even if he's excited to lead the kids. If Linus was going to UFA, then it should have been Sheevyn's all-out goal to acquire a goalie via trade (we had the protection slot) and then deal with Linus in UFA if Seattle hadn't taken him.

Please don't do this to UPL. The kid needs Rochester-quality competition for a couple seasons, just like Ullmark did.

[Cascade Youth]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

I get it. When Nolan was re-hired it was because he'd get the guys riled up and ready to play and he knew he was being hired as a sacrificial lamb for the tank since it had been the stated goal of ownership and the GM.

But doing this to Granato just seems cruel. Even if he's excited to lead the kids. If Linus was going to UFA, then it should have been Sheevyn's all-out goal to acquire a goalie via trade (we had the protection slot) and then deal with Linus in UFA if Seattle hadn't taken him.

Please don't do this to UPL. The kid needs Rochester-quality competition for a couple seasons, just like Ullmark did.

You are projecting a hockey plan onto what appears to be a transparent tax planning maneuver.  They’re not focused on winning now or in five years from now.  They’re cutting their losses and using the hockey team to offset some taxable revenue.  And they have no problem selling hope to the fans in the meantime.  They don’t give a rat’s ass about the fans.  This is fraud.

IMO

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

I wouldn't fret about it.  It won't matter.  They are making the same mistake they made the first time. 

I agree with this personally, but I won't deny that if we get a true 1C prospect in the deal, and some other good  assets, our pipeline could potentially by filled out in such a way that it provides a variable difference to the way we were set up during the first tank. Others have argued this and it does present the avenue for it working out differently. Like I said, I think the key variable is proper veteran insulation and I don't think we are going to get that, so I agree with you, but there's still a chance this thing doesn't look like an *exact* carbon copy of the first go-round 

[jad1]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

In the end, at this hour today we are still sitting in the same place overall as we were yesterday: needing a massive haul for Jack Eichel to make this thing seem plausible. It needs to address a few things. At the bare, bare minimum - a 1C prospect. 

The signings and lack-thereof today illustrate what kind of team we are going to be next year (and probably for a couple) and what we are targeting, but I think they've been pretty clear all along they are not prioritizing winning. We've perhaps seen the extent of what that looks like today. They are focused on the long-game, so having already expressed disappointment they aren't going to be a good team next year, and I that I don't like the strategy of the route they are going, it's all about maximizing that trade at this time. 

There is a such a thing as cutting too deep in trying to stack assets for the future.

The Sabres have had 3 GMs who have mortgaged immediate success for future gain, and the results have been devastatingly bad.

Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, Ristolainen, and McCabe all want out.  At some point you need to stop blaming the players and seriously consider changing the team-building strategy that has resulted in this mess.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, jad1 said:

There is a such a thing as cutting too deep in trying to stack assets for the future.

The Sabres have had 3 GMs who have mortgaged immediate success for future gain, and the results have been devastatingly bad.

Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, Ristolainen, and McCabe all want out.  At some point you need to stop blaming the players and seriously consider changing the team-building strategy that has resulted in this mess.

Preaching to the choir. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

You are projecting a hockey plan onto what appears to be a transparent tax planning maneuver.  They’re not focused on winning now or in five years from now.  They’re cutting their losses and using the hockey team to offset some taxable revenue.  And they have no problem selling hope to the fans in the meantime.  They don’t give a rat’s ass about the fans.  This is fraud.

IMO

I don't see it. I think they're simply doing yet another new-GM reset to make his own team. Just like TM and JBot did. Now -- what's even scarier is that ownership truly believes this is the way. Just like getting the most overpaid UFA (Leino, Ehrhoff, Moulson) after having a good playoffs was the way. Then getting a top-3 picked center was the way. Now, they're telling themselves UPL is ready and that in 2 years... this approach is dethroning Tampa. That's the scary part.

They didn't do obvious cost-cutting (buy out Okposo). We didn't need it for the cap, but if they truly were pinching pennies, then that would've worked. Or traded a 2nd for someone else to buy out Okposo's contract. They're not doing those kinds of moves.

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I honestly didn’t think it would be this ugly.  They are definitely gunning for a top-3 pick.

They might be gunning to be so bad the league feels bad and awards them the entire first round or they get an expansion draft......

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

In the end, at this hour today we are still sitting in the same place overall as we were yesterday: needing a massive haul for Jack Eichel to make this thing seem plausible. It needs to address a few things. At the bare, bare minimum - a 1C prospect. 

The signings and lack-thereof today illustrate what kind of team we are going to be next year (and probably for a couple) and what we are targeting, but I think they've been pretty clear all along they are not prioritizing winning. We've perhaps seen the extent of what that looks like today. They are focused on the long-game, so having already expressed disappointment they aren't going to be a good team next year, and I that I don't like the strategy of the route they are going, it's all about maximizing that trade at this time. 

I would argue that right now, the bare minimum need is an NHL caliber goaltender more then a 1C.

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

I would argue that right now, the bare minimum need is an NHL caliber goaltender more then a 1C.

For next year's roster if the goal is to win now, sure. But it's not - the roster is too far down this path imo to be anything other than a roster designed with other intentions. Adams is asking for futures for Eichel - the future is where his sights are set, as a priority. In that sense, I think a 1C is the most important because it's a harder asset to acquire, our system is barren, we have 3 goalies with starter potential in a few years (though Levi may be a stretch) and zero centres in the pipeline with even NHL potential, depending on how you feel about Pekar. 

We still need what Eichel represents: a 1C. Need another guy with that potential in the system rather than relying solely on Cozens and Casey. 

I'd certainly rather be aiming for wins next year, I just don't think it's what they are focused on. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[7+6=13]

This is exactly what KA should be doing with free agency, absolutely nothing.   For once, we're doing it right.   At some point the time line to spend the money has to be appropriate. 

Otherwise we're right back where we were.  Totally suck and have no cap.  

The only thing we should be doing is finding an adequate short term goalie.  That's the only thing I'd be willing to marginally spend on.

[woods-racer]

5 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

This is exactly what KA should be doing with free agency, absolutely nothing.   For once, we're doing it right.   At some point the time line to spend the money has to be appropriate. 

Otherwise we're right back where we were.  Totally suck and have no cap.  

The only thing we should be doing is finding an adequate short term goalie.  That's the only thing I'd be willing to marginally spend on.

Not giving up draft picks for short term ( if any) relieve seems different than last time.  I still believe we had no depth in our farm system and it was the ultimate killer of a very badly planned tank. Heck, 3/4 of our farm system from 14-15 are UFA right now and even we don't want them. 

If Girgensens and Okoposo are our leaders from the darkness I will for ever admire them. Let's not kid ourselves that leadership is coming here to help us out of this. It will happen from within.

[Huckleberry]

Can we make it official and change thread title to "the blight for wright", show some professionalism please 😛