So #8

[dudacek]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Then you read that incorrectly. Kaliyev and Roberston went in the 2nd round. I wouldn't have taken either in the top 10. My point is how badly the Sabres find value. They could have drafted a player the same age with equivalent production to Quinn at 31 and ***** it up.

If your argument is you can get players as good as Quinn early in the 2nd, I say sure, if you're lucky enough for them to fall. You can get a Point or a Marchand in the 3rd. It has nothing to do with where a player should be picked.

PP points are less stable than even strength production. If I put Seth Jarvis on Ottawa 67's pp he would double his pp points. Even strength scoring is a way to normalize some of the noise that comes with pp time. Even still you are talking about 52 goals for Quinn versus 42 (in 4 less games) for Jarvis all while Jarvis plays in a more defensive league and beat Quinn in overall points. 89 to 98. 

I disagree with the bolded as too broad. PP points are less stable because of fit. Maybe Jarvis tanks on the Ottawa PP because Rossi gets his role and minutes, whereas out west everything goes through him.

I don't see it in video, I don't see it in numbers, I don't see it in scouting reports. Seth Jarvis by all accounts is the better player but Quinn because he hit that magical 52 goal threshold is getting all the praise even though if you back up and look at how they did without PP numbers, Jarvis is equivalent and was on a worse team. 

That's completely false. By the accounts of most scouting services I've read, scouts are divided on which player is better. Around here, Jarvis gets all the praise. I might be the only one around here touting Quinn as a possibility at 8 until he popped up on Pronman's mock. Taking Jarvis over Quinn is entirely defensible (even though it wasn't the discussion until you took it that way), but that doesn't mean Quinn isn't a viable choice and your numbers didn't convince me otherwise.

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by dudacek

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That's completely false. By the accounts of most scouting services I've read, scouts are divided on which player is better. Around here, Jarvis gets all the praise. I might be the only one around here touting Quinn as a possibility at 8 until he popped up on Pronman's mock. Taking Jarvis over Quinn is entirely defensible (even though it wasn't the discussion until you took it that way), but that doesn't mean Quinn isn't a viable choice and your numbers didn't convince me otherwise.

Just my opinion:

Quinn is a viable choice at #8, but probably wouldn’t be my preferred choice.  If Rossi and Raymond are gone, and they aren’t taking a D,  things get pretty tightly packed from my point of view. Lundell, Jarvis, Quinn, Amirov are very close for me.

[Brawndo]

 

[Flashsabre]

“The primary goal, from an amateur scouting perspective, is simple: Select the players who best project to make an impact at the NHL level. Within that objective exists a goal to find players who fit Adams' organizational vision - namely, high-character individuals who are invested in reaching their potential.”

With the 8th pick the Buffalo Sabres are proud to select from the Ottawa 67s, Marco Rossi.

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Honestly you still missed what I was trying to say.

Jack Quinn should not be picked in the top 10. I am not sure he should be picked in the top 15 but definitely 20. If we were drafting 18th... yea I think I would love Quinn there. At 15... eh maybe. At 8... no. There are players that are simply better. Better skating, better passing, better hockey IQ. I don't hate Quinn which seems to be something you are driving at, I just don't think he's worth the pick. Seth Jarvis does everything Quinn does but does it better. 

For the record I had Arthur Kaliyev and Nick Robertson in that 15-25 range last year. So your point about players falling to you etc... was not a good one. My point with mentioning them at all was do demonstrate how in a deep draft (I still think 2019 was deeper than this draft) you can find these types of guys because they will slide. Buffalo missed the chance because their GM was one of the dumbest drafting GMs in league history. Quinn would be in my 15-20 range and if he fell to 31, that's why I would have taken him there. I was simply showing how last year you could have had an equivalent player to Quinn without wasting an 8th overall pick on a player like Quinn. Quinn should be taken in the teens, he probably won't but I find the juxtaposition of him especially with Roberston hilarious. I was the one who said the Johnson pick was dumb and here we are 1 year later talking about drafting Nick Robertson's point equal at 8th overall. What a world. It is funny and shows why excluding the CHL for 3 years was stupid and shows why you need to create a draft list that isn't based on BS. Because some years the Quinn's slide and you can get a steal. 

10 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

“The primary goal, from an amateur scouting perspective, is simple: Select the players who best project to make an impact at the NHL level. Within that objective exists a goal to find players who fit Adams' organizational vision - namely, high-character individuals who are invested in reaching their potential.”

With the 8th pick the Buffalo Sabres are proud to select from the Ottawa 67s, Marco Rossi.

Marco Rossi would be the perfect player for Adams first draft. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly you still missed what I was trying to say.

Jack Quinn should not be picked in the top 10. I am not sure he should be picked in the top 15 but definitely 20. If we were drafting 18th... yea I think I would love Quinn there. At 15... eh maybe. At 8... no. There are players that are simply better. Better skating, better passing, better hockey IQ. I don't hate Quinn which seems to be something you are driving at, I just don't think he's worth the pick. Seth Jarvis does everything Quinn does but does it better. 

For the record I had Arthur Kaliyev and Nick Robertson in that 15-25 range last year. So your point about players falling to you etc... was not a good one. My point with mentioning them at all was do demonstrate how in a deep draft (I still think 2019 was deeper than this draft) you can find these types of guys because they will slide. Buffalo missed the chance because their GM was one of the dumbest drafting GMs in league history. Quinn would be in my 15-20 range and if he fell to 31, that's why I would have taken him there. I was simply showing how last year you could have had an equivalent player to Quinn without wasting an 8th overall pick on a player like Quinn. Quinn should be taken in the teens, he probably won't but I find the juxtaposition of him especially with Roberston hilarious. I was the one who said the Johnson pick was dumb and here we are 1 year later talking about drafting Nick Robertson's point equal at 8th overall. What a world. It is funny and shows why excluding the CHL for 3 years was stupid and shows why you need to create a draft list that isn't based on BS. Because some years the Quinn's slide and you can get a steal. 

Marco Rossi would be the perfect player for Adams first draft. 

I've been seeing a lot of mocks where Rossi is going to Ottawa, Detroit, or Joysie with Perfetti dropping. What's your take if Perfetti is there? I assume he's the pick? Is size the reason for the drop or is there something else?

[Ruff Around The Edges]

I'm all aboard the Seth Jarvis train: Who's with me?

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly you still missed what I was trying to say.

Jack Quinn should not be picked in the top 10. I am not sure he should be picked in the top 15 but definitely 20. If we were drafting 18th... yea I think I would love Quinn there. At 15... eh maybe. At 8... no. There are players that are simply better. Better skating, better passing, better hockey IQ. I don't hate Quinn which seems to be something you are driving at, I just don't think he's worth the pick. Seth Jarvis does everything Quinn does but does it better.

That clarifies things for me.

Perhaps you shouldn't have spent all that time comparing him to Jarvis, who, if memory serves, you ranked 5th or 6th.

Maybe you should be explaining why Holtz, Lundell, Askarov, Sanderson, Drysdale etc.. (not to mention Amirov, Mercer, Holloway, or whoever else you like between 10-20) all deserve to go before him.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

11 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I'm all aboard the Seth Jarvis train: Who's with me?

Depends on who's available but I'm not against it.

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I'm all aboard the Seth Jarvis train: Who's with me?

If Rossi and Raymond are gone, I’m all for it.

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I'm all aboard the Seth Jarvis train: Who's with me?

Probably others I'd prefer, but sure why not? Any team could use an Ehlers.

[dudacek]

Some highlights from Wheeler's Q&A this morning:

• Ducks likely to take Holtz or a D
• Doesn't see Jarvis slipping past the Canes, although Askarov will force a discussion
• "Sens/Red Wings like the same players, I think. Perfetti/Raymond/the two D/Askarov. Don't think they go Holtz, Rossi, Lundell, etc. Think Sabres, Wild and Jets strongly consider C at 8-10 (Rossi/Lundell). Devils have obvious connections to Rossi, so we'll see there."

 

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That clarifies things for me.

Perhaps you shouldn't have spent all that time comparing him to Jarvis, who, if memory serves, you ranked 5th or 6th.

Maybe you should be explaining why Holtz, Lundell, Askarov, Sanderson, Drysdale etc.. (not to mention Amirov, Mercer, Holloway, or whoever else you like between 10-20) all deserve to go before him.

I actually just looked and Quinn sits 15th for me so at 15 he would be perfect. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Some highlights from Wheeler's Q&A this morning:

• Ducks likely to take Holtz or a D
• Doesn't see Jarvis slipping past the Canes, although Askarov will force a discussion
• "Sens/Red Wings like the same players, I think. Perfetti/Raymond/the two D/Askarov. Don't think they go Holtz, Rossi, Lundell, etc. Think Sabres, Wild and Jets strongly consider C at 8-10 (Rossi/Lundell). Devils have obvious connections to Rossi, so we'll see there."

 

I think this seems like good news.  I hope Holtz goes too the Ducks.

What are Rossi’s connections to NJ???

Edited October 2, 2020 by Curt

[Shootica]

So assuming nobody else falls, all it takes for Rossi to get to us is either:

- Both defensemen go before us.

- One defenseman and Holtz/Quinn/Askarov goes before us.

That's starting to look increasingly likely to me.  I'm starting to get excited about this.

 

[steveoath]

 

100% on board, if only coz I used to rock the same hairdo!..... until it fell out. Haha 

[Brawndo]

Friedman reiterated that Anaheim sees a drop off after 10, so they may be interested in making a deal with teams in the 7th to 10th spot if the deal makes sense for them. For the Sabres to move It would probably take a defenseman it’s something they should definitely look into doing particularly if Rossi is still available at six

Edited October 2, 2020 by Brawndo

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

Moving 2-4 spots?  Hell no.  Take the player you want at the spot you're in.  Trading down gains you a low % draft pick for the privilege of picking from whats left over afer the teams above you pick. The greatest advantage to picking 8 is you have more to choose from than the teams picking after you.  A 2nd, or 3rd round pick with a 25% or less chance of ever making an impact  is not good compensation for taking away the number of choices you have at 8 to get a player that makes an impact.

Picks have more avenues of unlockable value than merely draft currency. 

- - - 

Edit - got @Brawndo'd.

I'd be very happy to snag Lundell. First choice after Rossi. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Thorny

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Picks have more avenues of unlockable value than merely draft currency. 

- - - 

Edit - @Brawndo'd

I'd be very happy to snag Lundell. First choice after Rossi. 

 

 

It was a reply to GA, who explicitly stated he wanted more ***** draft picks.

Ok, the ***** part is my editorial.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Weave

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

It was a reply to GA, who explicitly stated he wanted more ***** draft picks.

Ok, the ***** part is my editorial.

My first choice has been, and will remain, to trade the **** (editorializing) pick for rostered talent, I suspect we are close on draft pick philosophy overall. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, steveoath said:

 

100% on board, if only coz I used to rock the same hairdo!..... until it fell out. Haha 

Rossi or Jarvis at 8. 

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman reiterated that Anaheim sees a drop off after 10, so they may be interested in making a deal with teams in the 7th to 10th spot if the deal makes sense for them. For the Sabres to move It would probably take a defenseman it’s something they should definitely look into doing particularly if Rossi is still available at six

Kinda reinforces they are thinking Holtz and think he’ll slip by Buffalo and New Jersey. It’s also a red neon sign to Minny and Winnipeg, who need centres and probably would love to jump over the Sabres for Rossi.

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Rossi or Jarvis at 8. 

Why do you prefer Jarvis to Perfetti. Is it strictly about pace?

Interesting nugget about Perfetti from Lance Lysowski:

Perfetti is a name to watch if he drops to No. 8. One of his assistant coaches in Saginaw, Jared Nightingale, is the brother of Sabres assistant scouting director Jason Nightingale. Perfetti’s underlying numbers are among the best in this class, which would fit with Buffalo’s new scouting approach. That said, I don’t think he falls

PS Perfetti comes across as a very intelligent hockey nerd in this interview

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/prospect-profile-cole-perfetti/t-277437090/c-5420250
They’ve also done one with Jarvis that I’m just about to watch.

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/prospect-profile-seth-jarvis/t-277437090/c-5420291

Jarvis looks thicker than I expected.

Edited October 3, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Kinda reinforces they are thinking Holtz and think he’ll slip by Buffalo and New Jersey. It’s also a red neon sign to Minny and Winnipeg, who need centres and probably would love to jump over the Sabres for Rossi.

This would be so annoying for me.