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bob_sauve28

Jeff Skinner's Contract

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What if...they just let him go. I hate these long expensive contracts. Why do GMs feel they can/have to do this? 

 

What would have been the reaction if Skinner walked and we just signed someone else cheaper? 

 

 

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Fun fact, Skinner is actually scoring at his usual 5v5 rate but his pp goals have dried up. 

What if... they just got him a center?

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4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Fun fact, Skinner is actually scoring at his usual 5v5 rate but his pp goals have dried up. 

What if... they just got him a center?

That's a problem I had with Skinner, actually, he is a one man show. He has never worked with anyone else well. But ok, I'm sure a good center would help him. I still think the contract is outrageous...especially the length 

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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Fun fact, Skinner is actually scoring at his usual 5v5 rate but his pp goals have dried up. 

What if... they just got him a center?

They already have a center for him. His name is Jack Eichel.

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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Fun fact, Skinner is actually scoring at his usual 5v5 rate but his pp goals have dried up. 

What if... they just got him a center?

What putting him with a converted winger who hasn’t played center since the Bush Administration isn’t a recipe for success? 

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5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

What putting him with a converted winger who hasn’t played center since the Bush Administration isn’t a recipe for success? 

I'd rather see Larry centering Skinner than Mojo at this point.

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4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

What putting him with a converted winger who hasn’t played center since the Bush Administration isn’t a recipe for success? 

No but let's compare him to Evander Kane. Kane has played... 38.7% of this time with Hertl and 43.9% of his time with Couture. Now 9.4% of those minutes were together (all 3 of them).  Still that means that for a majority of the year, Evander Kane has had wildly better centers and yet he still sucks at producing goals 5v5 compared to Skinner. 

12 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'd rather see Larry centering Skinner than Mojo at this point.

Agree

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There is a small sample size that shows Larsson with Skinner is worth continuing. 
 

Try Skinner-Larry-Mojo for a few games 

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I think Mojo is a decent player, he simply isn't an NHL center.

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1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

That's a problem I had with Skinner, actually, he is a one man show. He has never worked with anyone else well. But ok, I'm sure a good center would help him. I still think the contract is outrageous...especially the length 

Yea, we have to go all the way back to....last season...to see him working well with another player. It's Botterill's fault for not getting another viable center, but it's not his fault that Krueger has chosen to treat Skinner and Eichel like the world would end if they skate together. 

22 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think Mojo is a decent player, he simply isn't an NHL center.

Correct. Johansson is a useful middle-6 winger who has been forced to play 2C because the GM stinks. 

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1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

That's a problem I had with Skinner, actually, he is a one man show. He has never worked with anyone else well. But ok, I'm sure a good center would help him. I still think the contract is outrageous...especially the length 

What are you saying here?

Skinner is a finisher.  He works well with people who can get him the puck in dangerous spots, and/or guys who can create havoc/rebounds in front of the net that he can clean up.

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5 minutes ago, Curt said:

What are you saying here?

Skinner is a finisher.  He works well with people who can get him the puck in dangerous spots, and/or guys who can create havoc/rebounds in front of the net that he can clean up.

Like who? 

Yes, he is a finisher, not a passer, not a hitter and lately not even a finisher. We signed a guy forever for lots of money that had a contract year. 

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1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

They already have a center for him. His name is Jack Eichel.

But Krueger would play a defenseman with Eichel before he’ll put Skinner with him.

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28 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Like who? 

Yes, he is a finisher, not a passer, not a hitter and lately not even a finisher. We signed a guy forever for lots of money that had a contract year. 

Jack Eichel? The guy who helped Skinner get 40 goals and is a perfect match? Did you hibernate through last season? 

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1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Jack Eichel? The guy who helped Skinner get 40 goals and is a perfect match? Did you hibernate through last season? 

If he did would you blame him?

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1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think Mojo is a decent player, he simply isn't an NHL center.

Or second liner

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2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

What if...they just let him go. I hate these long expensive contracts. Why do GMs feel they can/have to do this? 

 

What would have been the reaction if Skinner walked and we just signed someone else cheaper? 

 

 

I truly believe that people would have melted down, especially considering how the rest of the offseason played out in terms of our ability to acquire good offensive pieces. Losing Skinner without gaining assets wouldn't have helped that even a little bit. It probably would have forced a desperate Botterill into losing a trade for a top six forward badly.

I for sure would have melted down.

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Yea, we have to go all the way back to....last season...to see him working well with another player. It's Botterill's fault for not getting another viable center, but it's not his fault that Krueger has chosen to treat Skinner and Eichel like the world would end if they skate together. 

Krueger has had Skinner with Eichel for a fair bit lately. Too lazy to look it up. Skinner still hasn't scored.

Do I take the defense of Skinner to literally mean that unless he's with Eichel (or a top center), it's OK if he doesn't produce ANYTHING? His critics aren't necessarily asking for his production from last season. Can he score a goal? Just one? Somehow? An assist would be nice as well. Just one. He has two points in 15 games!

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50 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Like who? 

Yes, he is a finisher, not a passer, not a hitter and lately not even a finisher. We signed a guy forever for lots of money that had a contract year. 

Yeah, Jack Eichel, or probably any other center who can some of those things I listed relatively well.  He is a perennial 30ish goal scorer even when playing with mostly meh centers in CAR.

He had a career year playing with the best line mate that he ever had, not a big surprise.

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10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Krueger has had Skinner with Eichel for a fair bit lately. Too lazy to look it up. Skinner still hasn't scored.

Do I take the defense of Skinner to literally mean that unless he's with Eichel (or a top center), it's OK if he doesn't produce ANYTHING? His critics aren't necessarily asking for his production from last season. Can he score a goal? Just one? Somehow? An assist would be nice as well. Just one. He has two points in 15 games!

Jeff Skinner and Jack Eichel have played 52:28 minutes of 5v5 this season. While they are on the ice together, the Sabres have 6 goals and 3 goals against. 

In 536 minutes away from Eichel at 5v5, Skinner and whoever he has played with are seeing 16 goals for and 27 against. 

Talk about not maximizing things. Almost every advanced stat drops by about 20% when Skinner is separated from Jack. 

Now when you do the same for Reinhart, we see almost the exact inverse. When Reinhart is with neither Jack or Jeff, Reinhart's numbers across the board go up. When all 3 are together, they have the best numbers. 

My only conclusion is that Skinner and Jack work together and Skinner needs Jack but that Reinhart works just fine without Eichel or Skinner in the 67 minutes of TOI he has had this season. 

JackJeffSam_2020.thumb.PNG.fa5e4c416d6f5dbce74669e2277fd116.PNG

Edited by LGR4GM
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4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jeff Skinner and Jack Eichel have played 52:28 minutes of 5v5 this season. While they are on the ice together, the Sabres have 6 goals and 3 goals against. 

In 536 minutes away from Eichel at 5v5, Skinner and whoever he has played with are seeing 16 goals for and 27 against. 

Talk about not maximizing things. Almost every advanced stat drops by about 20% when Skinner is separated from Jack. 

Now when you do the same for Reinhart, we see almost the exact inverse. When Reinhart is with neither Jack or Jeff, Reinhart's numbers across the board go up. When all 3 are together, they have the best numbers. 

My only conclusion is that Skinner and Jack work together and Skinner needs Jack but that Reinhart works just fine without Eichel or Skinner in the 67 minutes of TOI he has had this season. 

We've known this for awhile. How, if we can see it, don't they? It's beyond frustrating 

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4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

We've known this for awhile. How, if we can see it, don't they? It's beyond frustrating 

Stupidity. Krueger has broken up every single pairing of forwards except Eichel and Reinhart. It is mind boggling especially with Olofsson out and the team imploding. 

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19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Krueger has had Skinner with Eichel for a fair bit lately. Too lazy to look it up. Skinner still hasn't scored.

Do I take the defense of Skinner to literally mean that unless he's with Eichel (or a top center), it's OK if he doesn't produce ANYTHING? His critics aren't necessarily asking for his production from last season. Can he score a goal? Just one? Somehow? An assist would be nice as well. Just one. He has two points in 15 games!

Nobody thinks it's okay, they just don't expect his contract's suggested level of production if he's not with Eichel. He's obviously performing below where he should even without Eichel right now. He will do this many more times throughout his career, too, though hopefully not for this long, just because he's an NHL goal scorer and those guys regularly have down stretches of ~15 games, and he doesn't bring a lot to the table outside of his goal scoring. But anyone coulda told you that before we traded for him so it's not high on the list of things people are really mad about

 

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Yea, we have to go all the way back to....last season...to see him working well with another player. It's Botterill's fault for not getting another viable center, but it's not his fault that Krueger has chosen to treat Skinner and Eichel like the world would end if they skate together. 

Correct. Johansson is a useful middle-6 winger who has been forced to play 2C because the GM stinks. 

I've been on this train for a while.  There are plenty of things that Botterill is guilty of, but it's not his fault that Skinner is on the ice without Eichel.  I understand the initial thought that it was worthwhile to see if he could spark a second line.  At this point, it's pretty clear that he can't, at least not right now.  Maybe something clicks in the future with different players, but it is not happening this year.

As for Johansson, he's the kind of guy I want to see playing in the playoffs.  He plays a game that I think works well there.  I'm kind of curious to see if he could be a trade chip approaching the deadline.  One more year at $4.5 million shouldn't be too restrictive for a team looking to add some depth.

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40 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

 

I for sure would have melted down.

Isn't everyone having a melt down now? Why not save cap space and have a melt down in a better financial place. JBott blinked and it's handcuffed the franchise for years. 

 

Why not take an off season melt down instead of this cluster fart? 

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