Dahlin and 60 point summit

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

To me, Eichel is wildly inaccurate with his shot, and I believe him to be among the best playmakers in the league. My view is why fight it. It's a long time ago now and a small sample size, but I remember watching a pre-draft Eichel at the Worlds looking outstanding on his strong side half wall with USA. He was feeding pucks for tap-in goals with Brock Nelson.

Let him primarily dish on the PP so his skills are maximized and he isn't firing it around the boards back into his own zone every second try. Let him cash the odd PP goal from a bad angle wrist shot, which is more accurate than his slapper by far. 

 Not opposed to this at all; in fact, like I mentioned above, I’d like to see how a lot of our players might be utilized differently on the PP.

IMO, the biggest issue with our PP last year, was that it was too Jack-centric. We asked him to be both the primary puckhandler and the primary shooter. We were drastically biased to the left side.

Jack had only 8 PP goals and he led the team. Skinner was rarely part of the puck rotation. He had 8. Sam was usually within 10 feet from the net and he only had 2. The Rasmi combined for 7.

Okposo had 7 despite the fact he rarely played and that’s because he was the only guy shooting the puck from the right side.

Edited June 12, 2019 by dudacek

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 Not opposed to this at all; in fact, like I mentioned above, I’d like to see how a lot of our players might be utilized differently on the PP.

IMO, the biggest issue with our PP last year, was that it was too Jack-centric. We asked him to be both the primary puckhandler and the primary shooter. We were drastically biased to the left side.

Jack had only 8 PP goals and he led the team. Skinner was rarely part of the puck rotation. He had 8. Sam was usually within 10 feet from the net and he only had 2. The Rasmi combined for 7.

Okposo had 7 despite the fact he rarely played and that’s because he was the only guy shooting the puck from the right side.

Okposo played a lot on the PP.  1:53 per game, 4th most among forwards.

[dudacek]

26 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

Okposo played a lot on the PP.  1:53 per game, 4th most among forwards.

That’s a bit misleading.

He was off the top unit for most of the 2nd half if I recall things correctly. He scored one fewer goal in barely over half the ice time Jack and Jeff got over the course of the season.

Over the year, he got 12 minutes more than Casey and 15 more than Sheary and more than 100 minutes less than Sam, Jack and Jeff.

Edited June 13, 2019 by dudacek

[French Collection]

Dahlin gets to 65 because of personal growth, improved PP and more ice time.

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That’s a bit misleading.

He was off the top unit for most of the 2nd half if I recall things correctly, and scored one fewer goal in barely over half the ice time Jack and Jeff (and way more than Sam) got over the course of the season. 

Over the year, he got 12 minutes more than Casey and 15 more than Sheary.

Ok.  I’m not refuting your larger point.  He was productive on the PP relative to his ice time.  I actually just thought it was misleading to say Okposo rarely played on the PP, when he in fact got quite a lot of PP time.  4th most among forwards, and as you said was on the top unit for a large portion of the season.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Curtisp5286

[Zamboni]

He surpassed my expectations as a rookie. So I can see him hitting 60. Baring injury. One thing that could could could happen this year...

teams key in on him more and punish him on the forecheck. 

Sophomore slump.

Injuries.

He takes a while to get used to the new system RK puts in place so his production dips for the first two months.

[TrueBlueGED]

Barring injury, I can easily see him hitting 60. If the team is good, I think he makes the All-Star Game. It strikes me that some are still hesitant to embrace how incredible he is. By his third pro season he'll be in the conversation for best defenseman in the league. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Barring injury, I can easily see him hitting 60. If the team is good, I think he makes the All-Star Game. It strikes me that some are still hesitant to embrace how incredible he is. By his third pro season he'll be in the conversation for best defenseman in the league. 

I have very little doubt that he will be in the Norris conversation by year 3, or 4, and likely win a few(+) in his prime years.

[PASabreFan]

Just 60?

[PASabreFan]

54 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Barring injury, I can easily see him hitting 60. If the team is good, I think he makes the All-Star Game. It strikes me that some are still hesitant to embrace how incredible he is. By his third pro season he'll be in the conversation for best defenseman in the league. 

Some of it's the language of the millennial. Incredible... amaaaaazing... So he's incredible but not in the conversation for the Norris? Words have to have some meaning. I think there are fans who want to wait until he's, ya know, incredible. Instead of very good for an 18-year-old playing defense and very promising.

Edited June 13, 2019 by PASabreFan

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Some of it's the language of the millennial. Incredible... amaaaaazing... So he's incredible but not in the conversation for the Norris? Words have to have some meaning. I think there are fans who want to wait until he's, ya know, incredible. Instead of very good for an 18-year-old playing defense and very promising.

For me, saying he's incredible has those things baked into it, but I get what you're saying. 

And he was more than just very good for an 18 year old defenseman. He had one of the best seasons ever for an 18 year old defenseman, and he did it on a bad team. It's this part that I don't think a lot of people fully appreciate. It would be pretty shocking if he doesn't end up in the Norris conversation within a few years given what he was at 18.

[PASabreFan]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

For me, saying he's incredible has those things baked into it, but I get what you're saying. 

And he was more than just very good for an 18 year old defenseman. He had one of the best seasons ever for an 18 year old defenseman, and he did it on a bad team. It's this part that I don't think a lot of people fully appreciate. It would be pretty shocking if he doesn't end up in the Norris conversation within a few years given what he was at 18.

Some people remember Tyler Myers. And some took notice of dozens of absolutely atrocious defensive plays in his own zone. Are they going to magically disappear from his game? I don't see any reason to anoint the kid, maybe even put too much pressure on him. Let's see what we have in Year 2.

[TrueBlueGED]

9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Some people remember Tyler Myers. And some took notice of dozens of absolutely atrocious defensive plays in his own zone. Are they going to magically disappear from his game? I don't see any reason to anoint the kid, maybe even put too much pressure on him. Let's see what we have in Year 2.

Myers didn't play in the NHL in his draft season. He also did that on a functional team with a good coach (no, 11 has not taken control of my keyboard). He also wasn't talked about as the next great defensive prospect since he was 16. I understand not wanting to be burned again, but the circumstances really aren't all that similar. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[Weave]

I think PA well stated my thoughts.  When he is simply amazing I’ll say he is amazing.  

 

As for not fully appreciating his roolie year, almost none of us in these conversations can honeslty say they remember in a critical way the rookie season of the last generational defenseman, so we don’t really know what that is supposed to look like.

 

the kid had a helluva season. Period.  Amazing is most likely in his future.  But I’m not going to rave about it until amazing is actually here.

This season would be nice though.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Myers didn't play in the NHL in his draft season. He also did that on a functional team with a good coach (no, 11 has not taken control of my keyboard). He also wasn't talked about as the next great defensive prospect since he was 16. I understand not wanting to be burned again, but the circumstances really aren't all that similar. 

I watched Dahlin make plays that Myers has never thought of. I will bet my avatar that Rasmus Dahlin is better than Myers. 

I am not sure Dahlin made atrocious plays in his own end. The worst I can think of is he got turned around a couple times. Not surprising for an 18yr old kid in a man's league. 

[MODO Hockey]

On 6/12/2019 at 3:24 PM, WildCard said:

Hands down yes

Edit: Great video but man that music sucks

Agreed, jesus.. some ppl have absolut 0 feel for music versus gameplay.

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Barring injury, I can eIsily see him hitting 60. If the team is good, I think he makes the All-Star Game. It strikes me that some are still hesitant to embrace how incredible he is. By his third pro season he'll be in the conversation for best defenseman in the league. 

Can definitely see him hitting 60, but wouldn't want $'s on anything above 55.

AS game is probably a reach this season.  Still several really good D-men in the old Adams and only a handful make.  Wouldn't bat an eye should he play in it when it returns after the lockout.

He really will be the best D-man the Sabres ever iced & it would be a little surprising should he never win a Norris.  That said, he'll be 19 to start this season, and the EXPECTATION should be high end 2nd pairing guy this year with flashes of 1st pairing.  The HOPE?  1st pairing definitely; but those that expect that will likely be disappointed or will have their Swedish phenom colored glasses firmly glued to their heads.  Especially when we consider that now that he has (should have) a comfort level with this level of play, he'll start to see where his limits are (& you only find them by exceeding them).  Not expecting a sophomore slump (he's too good), but do expect him to be trying for that "effortless" (which ironically require tons of skill & effort ;)) pass or look more often than in the past & expect to see him burned by it a bit more often too.

Really looking forward to watching how much he improves against odd man rushes this year.  That and power on the slapshot & 1 timers are among the very few tools in the toolbox that weren't sharp last year.  And when he finally has "man strength" he's going to move people from the front of the net like Zhitnik & Warrener used to.  Can't wait to see him launch somebody like Zhitnik launched Graves into the boards.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Taro T

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Barring injury, I can easily see him hitting 60. If the team is good, I think he makes the All-Star Game. It strikes me that some are still hesitant to embrace how incredible he is. By his third pro season he'll be in the conversation for best defenseman in the league. 

The outlook for this franchise would be vastly darker than it is now currently if Dahlin wasn't here. It was a critical stroke of luck. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

For me, saying he's incredible has those things baked into it, but I get what you're saying. 

And he was more than just very good for an 18 year old defenseman. He had one of the best seasons ever for an 18 year old defenseman, and he did it on a bad team. It's this part that I don't think a lot of people fully appreciate. It would be pretty shocking if he doesn't end up in the Norris conversation within a few years given what he was at 18.

This. Why wouldn't there be relativity built into "incredible"? There's relativity built in to everything. For an 18 year old rookie D, his season was incredible. It's not a "millennial" thing, at all. 

As you've said you had that built in to your original statement. For me, I'd say there's definitely a distinction between saying Dahlin had an incredible season, and me saying he's an incredible player at this time.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

On 6/13/2019 at 2:19 PM, Thorny said:

The outlook for this franchise would be vastly darker than it is now currently if Dahlin wasn't here. It was a critical stroke of luck. 

In my experience, there is no such thing as luck. 

[PASabreFan]

On 6/13/2019 at 12:22 PM, LGR4GM said:

I watched Dahlin make plays that Myers has never thought of. I will bet my avatar that Rasmus Dahlin is better than Myers. 

I am not sure Dahlin made atrocious plays in his own end. The worst I can think of is he got turned around a couple times. Not surprising for an 18yr old kid in a man's league. 

This is quite an incredible statement. It just goes to show we all see what we want to.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

This is quite an incredible statement. It just goes to show we all see what we want to.

I didn't want to see Dahlin make atrocious gaffes. Dahlin made atrocious (rookie) gaffes. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

This is quite an incredible statement. It just goes to show we all see what we want to.

Yupppp and you want to see the negative so you do. That's what gets you going, being negative about everything constantly. Comparing Myers to Dahlin is laughable. 

He made minor errors but you make it sound like he was trainwreck in his own zone. What's actually incredible is how wrong you are. I went back and looked at his stats and I gotta say got someone making "atrocious" defensive plays he's really good at not being bad at possession, entries, exits, shot suppression. I bet there's 1 play you're thinking of and that's where all this comes from. 

Dahlin is the best defender on the team. I'm willing to bet on it. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yupppp and you want to see the negative so you do. 

This reminds me of something, but I just can’t put my finger on it...

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

This reminds me of something, but I just can’t put my finger on it...

Ok well I don't get the reference so when you want to be less cryptic go for it.