Thorner Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Taro T said: There is still a very realistic chance that there are 2 more moves. Granted, they'd be 2nd pairing and middle 6 moves, but not sure that it can be said that 95% of the roster is set nor that any remaining moves are only going to effect the lower levels. If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle. 20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Not even close. There is legit competition for 6 roster spots which about or about 25% of the roster. There is also 6 forwards slots in the top 9 where we aren’t sure about linemates and position sloting. Add that outside Miller Montour and Dahlin we have no idea who the other 3 starting 3 D are going to be and whom everyone will be paired with. That isn’t close to a 95% set roster. 95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. Skinner - Eichel - X Johansson - X - Reinhart Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo Dahlin - Montour McCabe - Ristolainen Scandella - Miller Hutton Ullmark ....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. Edited September 1, 2019 by Thorny 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Thorny said: If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle. 95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. Skinner - Eichel - X Johansson - X - Reinhart Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo Dahlin - Montour McCabe - Ristolainen Scandella - Miller Hutton Ullmark ....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. Forgot Mitts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Thorny said: If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle. 95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. Skinner - Eichel - X Johansson - X - Reinhart Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo Dahlin - Montour McCabe - Ristolainen Scandella - Miller Hutton Ullmark ....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. The Sabres do need 1-2 more quality 2nd liners. Last I checked, guys that play on and top out at line 2 are "middle 6ers" (and yes, they are also "top 6ers" ). But unless it becomes a very large trade, Ristolainen isn't landing a top end 2nd line guy that wouldn't be terribly out of place on the 1st line. But he could land (Especially if it's a winger) a legit 2nd liner (or a young guy that's extremely close) or a 2nd/3rd line C that would be better than the other options at 2C. And either of those guys in and of themselves makes this whole jumble doable as the Sabres now have a good 1st, 3rd, and 4th line and a serviceable 2nd line. Combined with an improved (on paper) D and a goaltending tandem that won't be getting coached all year to overcompensate moving across the crease, provided Krueger is at least average as a coach (not necessarily a given) this team is in the mix legitimately this season. And honestly, if this team DOESN'T have a better option at 2C, I give serious consideration to putting Olofsson (or other should Johansson or Sheary work better) -Eichel -Reinhart out as the top line with Skinner on an island driving the 2nd line (sorry Jeff, welcome back to Carolina for 1 final season) so they can have a very good top line, a good 3 & 4, and a 2nd line that is kind of dysfunctional but at least dangerous in both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) I keep coming around to this team being only a good 2C from everything falling into place nicely as a playoff roster. We have most of the other pieces in place, including the most crucial, hardest to acquire. Franchise centre: Eichel Sniper: Skinner 1st line winger: Reinhart 2C: (Mittelstadt, Cozens) 2ndry scoring x4: Johansson Vesey, Sheary, Okposo (Olofsson, Thompson, Smith, Cozens) 3C Rodrigues (Cozens, Asplund, Ruotsalainen, Davidsson) 10th forward: Rodrigues (Davidsson, Ruotsalainen, Pekar) Grinders x3: Larsson, Girgensons, Okposo, Wilson, Lazar (Asplund, Pekar, Davidsson, Smith) Franchise defencemen: Dahlin 2nd pairing x2: Ristolainen, Montour (Jokiharju, Johnson, Samuelsson) Defenders: McCabe, Bogosian, Scandella (Johnson, Samuelsson) Attackers: Miller, Pilut (Laaksonen) Starters: (Ullmark, Luukkonnen) Backup: Hutton, Ullmark 3rd pairing x2 Starter Backup Edited September 3, 2019 by dudacek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 This is going to be an exciting training camp. I also still think Risto is moved for more forwards, making camp even crazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) This is quite interesting. The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/ Edited September 3, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is quite interesting. The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/ But, but, but,... solo zone exits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 hours ago, SwampD said: But, but, but,... solo zone exits... What about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 So looks hockey writers see a lot of talent, just no idea how all the moving parts fit together... yup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 hours ago, dudacek said: This is quite interesting. The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/ But they also have Toronto in the top 10 and ahead of Buffalo. I don’t see how the 7th best D unit in the league can have Cody Ceci in the top 4. I guess I’m just saying that I’m not taking this list too seriously. Sabres D looks much improved over last season though, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, dudacek said: This is quite interesting. The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/ If we move Ristolainen, maybe we can get that up to top 5. Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, dudacek said: This is quite interesting. The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/ Toronto has the 7th best with top-pairing Cody Ceci; You sure this isn't a satire piece? Edited September 3, 2019 by triumph_communes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 It's pretty crazy that they had us in the top ten with Scandella in their top six. I like our defense, I think it's league average with the potential for Dahlin to pull it higher. The real crime is Columbus at 11 and Minnesota at 16 - the stats indicate that Minnesota's defense is the one closest to St. Louis in terms of shot/quality shot suppression. And Spurgeon/Dumba can move pucks all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Skinner - Eichel - Sheary Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team. Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. Dahlin - Miller Pilut - Montour McCabe - Jokiharju Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Thorny said: Skinner - Eichel - Sheary Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team. Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. Dahlin - Miller Pilut - Montour McCabe - Jokiharju I’d keep Mitts on the second line. I’d rather he work with Johansson and Sam than Vesey and Olofsson in terms of developing. Olofsson has little experience and Vesey hasn’t lived up to expectations yet. ERod’s steady nature might also help Olofsson’s development. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, Thorny said: Skinner - Eichel - Sheary Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team. Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. Dahlin - Miller Pilut - Montour McCabe - Jokiharju Barring additional moves (which still can happen, there are well over a handful of quality RFAs waiting to get deals which can definitely open stuff up) really believe that Rodrigues supported (led) by Reinhart (or Skinner) gives them the best chance of having more than just an effective 1st line and 4th line. Rodrigues ISN'T a 2C, but he's most likely significantly closer than Mittelstadt at this time. Having Reinhart (or Skinner) there would still force other teams to at least play them honestly as they'd be able to overmatch the other team's bottom line (while that team was looking to overmatch the Mitts line). Best case, barring trade, Johansson shows he can at C like he did in Washington but it doesn't seem like that's the plan as most any talk of him from management was that he's a wing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: I’d keep Mitts on the second line. I’d rather he work with Johansson and Sam than Vesey and Olofsson in terms of developing. Olofsson has little experience and Vesey hasn’t lived up to expectations yet. ERod’s steady nature might also help Olofsson’s development. Mittelstadt in my estimation is just not ready for the minutes the Reinhart line must command. And I'm not sacrificing the good of the team for Mittelstadt's development, especially when he'd be in line for more sheltered, offensive minutes should he play on line 3, and still with a talented player with a potential Olofsson pairing. I'd rather one solid, reliable line, and one in-need-of-sheltering line in the middle 6 than two slightly below average lines. Rodrigues on line 2 gives us the most lines (3) I'd be comfortable out there in most situations. Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 33 minutes ago, Taro T said: Barring additional moves (which still can happen, there are well over a handful of quality RFAs waiting to get deals which can definitely open stuff up) really believe that Rodrigues supported (led) by Reinhart (or Skinner) gives them the best chance of having more than just an effective 1st line and 4th line. Rodrigues ISN'T a 2C, but he's most likely significantly closer than Mittelstadt at this time. Having Reinhart (or Skinner) there would still force other teams to at least play them honestly as they'd be able to overmatch the other team's bottom line (while that team was looking to overmatch the Mitts line). Best case, barring trade, Johansson shows he can at C like he did in Washington but it doesn't seem like that's the plan as most any talk of him from management was that he's a wing. I'm not totally opposed to moving Skinner to line 2 instead of Reinhart, but I think moving Reinhart provides the most balance. A configuration of: Johansson - Eichel - Reinhart Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary ...leaves 2 non-top 6 quality players on the same line in Rodrigues and Sheary. I mean I'm thinking, HOPEFULLY, there's a bigger difference between Reinhart and Sheary than Skinner and Johansson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Thorny said: I'm not totally opposed to moving Skinner to line 2 instead of Reinhart, but I think moving Reinhart provides the most balance. A configuration of: Johansson - Eichel - Reinhart Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary ...leaves 2 non-top 6 quality players on the same line in Rodrigues and Sheary. I mean I'm thinking, HOPEFULLY, there's a bigger difference between Reinhart and Sheary than Skinner and Johansson. If Skinner and Eichel are separated, the 1st guy I'd try with Eichel and Reinhart would be Olofsson. That would allow them to put Johansson on the 2nd line making it close to a legit 2, or keep that 2nd line you proposed with Johansson & Vesey supporting Mittelstadt. And based on comments by Botterill this off season, I'd guess that Botterill & Krueger are with most of SS in that they'll have Reinhart "driving" the 2nd line. (And at $9MM/yr, yes, Jeff should be able to score 30 goals even with Rodrigues & Sheary providing support. (And playing w/ Jack all year makes anything less than 40 a disappointment.)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Taro T said: If Skinner and Eichel are separated, the 1st guy I'd try with Eichel and Reinhart would be Olofsson. That would allow them to put Johansson on the 2nd line making it close to a legit 2, or keep that 2nd line you proposed with Johansson & Vesey supporting Mittelstadt. And based on comments by Botterill this off season, I'd guess that Botterill & Krueger are with most of SS in that they'll have Reinhart "driving" the 2nd line. (And at $9MM/yr, yes, Jeff should be able to score 30 goals even with Rodrigues & Sheary providing support. (And playing w/ Jack all year makes anything less than 40 a disappointment.)) I’m good with the first half of that bolded but not really the second, if you are referring to the Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary line I proposed. Didn’t really like that as a second line. I’d prefer moving Reinhart to line 2 but a Skinner - Rodrigues - Johansson line could work. Although that leaves us with Sheary - Mittelstadt - Vesey (if Olofsson goes to line 1) and I’m not much a fan of that. I’d rather let Mittelstadt keep Olofsson or Johansson. And that means Sheary on line one hopefully buoyed up by Eichel and one of Skinner/Reinhart. Skinner - Eichel - Sheary Johansson - E-Rod - Reinhart Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey or Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart Skinner - E-Rod - Johansson Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey ..where Johansson and Olofsson can switch in either scenario. Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Curt said: But they also have Toronto in the top 10 and ahead of Buffalo. I don’t see how the 7th best D unit in the league can have Cody Ceci in the top 4. I guess I’m just saying that I’m not taking this list too seriously. Sabres D looks much improved over last season though, of course. If you define 1st pairing offensive defencemen as defencemen who finish in the top 62 in scoring, we have four of them. Dahlin 23, Ristolainen 26, Montour 41, Miller 60 9 hours ago, Thorny said: . If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. This always surprises me. Roslovic put up 9 goals and 24 points last year. That’s worse than the worst full seasons any of Okposo, Sheary, Vesey and Mittelstadt have ever put up. I get that he’s young and has upside, but I don’t understand the idea that is a clear upgrade over those guys this season. Edited September 4, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I’d like to see: Olofsson-Eichel-Mantha Skinner-Mitts-Reinhart Johansson-Rodriguez-Vesey Zemgus-Larry-KO Dahlin-Montour Gardiner-Miller McCabe-Joker I think we would need to move about a million in salary to become cap compliant, but I’m sure there’s ways around that (cough cough Sobotka) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Thorny said: I’m good with the first half of that bolded but not really the second, if you are referring to the Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary line I proposed. Didn’t really like that as a second line. I’d prefer moving Reinhart to line 2 but a Skinner - Rodrigues - Johansson line could work. Although that leaves us with Sheary - Mittelstadt - Vesey (if Olofsson goes to line 1) and I’m not much a fan of that. I’d rather let Mittelstadt keep Olofsson or Johansson. And that means Sheary on line one hopefully buoyed up by Eichel and one of Skinner/Reinhart. Skinner - Eichel - Sheary Johansson - E-Rod - Reinhart Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey or Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart Skinner - E-Rod - Johansson Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey ..where Johansson and Olofsson can switch in either scenario. Sheary on the top line makes me want to barf. He is the very definition of an offensive passenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.