2019-2020 Lineup

[nfreeman]

15 hours ago, Thorny said:

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart

Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. 

Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team.

Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. 

If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. 

Dahlin - Miller

Pilut - Montour

McCabe - Jokiharju

I like this, although I think Sheary, Olofsson and Vesey (and maybe Jojo) will all be competing for that #1RW spot, and I don’t think Sheary will win that competition.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

@thorny

Funny but I thought you said the lineup was 95% set yet, as I suggested, you just rolled out 3 new ideas for the top 9.  I guess not so set after all.  

Nothing is set in stone right now.  Read the Jbot interview and he is pretty clear they are want many jobs to be won in camp. 

One other note.  You said the bottom of the lineup is something like meaningless.  I think you’ll find not a single organization thinks this.  Good teams get production from their bottom 6.  The Sabres have been trying to upgrade this area for years.  The goal is that we upgrade our depth until guys  Girgensons and Larsson, who add virtually no offense, aren’t here. Once those guys are gone I’ll show you a playoff bound Sabres team.

Edited September 4, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@thorny

Funny but I thought you said the lineup was 95% set yet, as I suggested, you just rolled out 3 new ideas for the top 9.  I guess not so set after all.  

Nothing is set in stone right now.  Read the Jbot interview and he is pretty clear they are want many jobs to be won in camp. 

One other note.  You said the bottom of the lineup is something like meaningless.  I think you’ll find not a single organization thinks this.  Good teams get production from their bottom 6.  The Sabres have been trying to upgrade this area for years.  The goal is that we upgrade our depth until guys  Girgensons and Larsson, who add virtually no offense, aren’t here. Once those guys are gone I’ll show you a playoff bound Sabres team.

Wait, I missed this interview. Can I get a link?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Wait, I missed this interview. Can I get a link?

It’s on Sabres.com. 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-jack-eichel-sam-reinhart-jeff-skinner/c-308824724

The video is Jbot on the Instigators.

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

If you define 1st pairing offensive defencemen as defencemen who finish in the top 62 in scoring, we have four of them.

Dahlin 23, Ristolainen 26, Montour 41, Miller 60

This always surprises me. Roslovic put up 9 goals and 24 points last year.

That’s worse than the worst full seasons any of Okposo, Sheary, Vesey and Mittelstadt have ever put up.

I get that he’s young and has upside, but I don’t understand the idea that is a clear upgrade over those guys this season.

He spent the bulk of his time on their fourth line. I doubt he's worth a Risto trade, and don't think he'll be great, but I don't think his point total is close to indicative of what he would bring a team like Buffalo in a new role even this season. It's more reflective of Winnipeg's wing depth. How many points would you expect Sheary or Mitts to get in 9:45 a night behind some of those wingers?

Edited September 4, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s on Sabres.com. 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-jack-eichel-sam-reinhart-jeff-skinner/c-308824724

The video is Jbot on the Instigators.

 

"We are willing to put 1 way contacts in the minors if younger players are ready to take their jobs" - Jason Botterill

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

"We are willing to put 1 way contacts in the minors if younger players are ready to take their jobs" - Jason Botterill

I'll save you the time, Jason - Scandella and Sobotka lost their jobs 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

"We are willing to put 1 way contacts in the minors if younger players are ready to take their jobs" - Jason Botterill

Correct.  This is why I have been saying that this roster is far from set in stone.  We have no idea who will be playing with whom for the guys we know will be in Buffalo and we have about 6 roster spots where vets could be replaced by kids or recent signees.  

Add if Risto gets traded and the next 4 weeks should be very interesting.

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'll save you the time, Jason - Scandella and Sobotka lost their jobs 

That is entirely possible.  

As to Sobotka, I can’t see how he makes the team.

On Scandella, he had better hope that Pilut and Bogo aren’t healthy and Gilmour or Jokiharju don’t outplay him in camp.  

Edited September 4, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

"We are willing to put 1 way contacts in the minors if younger players are ready to take their jobs" - Jason Botterill

Which is absolutely reasonable and why I've firmly been of the belief that Sobotka doesn't sniff this roster.

When your owner has more money than he knows what to do with, there should be no reason at all to not bury a bad player regardless of contract.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

He spent the bulk of his time on their fourth line. I doubt he's worth a Risto trade, and don't think he'll be great, but I don't think his point total is close to indicative of what he would bring a team like Buffalo in a new role even this season. It's more reflective of Winnipeg's wing depth. How many points would you expect Sheary or Mitts to get in 9:45 a night behind some of those wingers?

Not buying it.

Not the part about producing more if he’s playing with Jack or Sam, the part about him doing more with that opportunity than the guys we already have.

 Kyle Okposo frequently played on the 4th line and rarely played with good players last year. He’s consistently put up more than 40 points a season paired with good players. Sheary put up 50. We saw what Pominville did with or without Jack last year. Vesey doubled Roslovic’s goal totals playing with Brett Howden. Mittelstadt is more talented and in the same place developmentally.

I‘m not against acquiring Roslovic, but I think it’s naive to think he’s a solution to our top six issues. He’s as much of a roll of the dice as any of the other players listed above.

[Randall Flagg]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not buying it.

Not the part about producing more if he’s playing with Jack or Sam, the part about him doing more with that opportunity than the guys we already have.

 Kyle Okposo frequently played on the 4th line and rarely played with good players last year. He’s consistently put up more than 40 points a season paired with good players. Sheary put up 50. We saw what Pominville did with or without Jack last year. Vesey doubled Roslovic’s goal totals playing with Brett Howden. Mittelstadt is more talented and in the same place developmentally.

I‘m not against acquiring Roslovic, but I think it’s naive to think he’s a solution to our top six issues. He’s as much of a roll of the dice as any of the other players listed above.

I think you're leaning too much on points here. Kyle's production has been fine the last two seasons, while his play simultaneously (when put above the fourth line) is a large part of why we failed as a team. Using Roslovic's point totals in 9 minutes a night with Appleton or the Copp line or whatever (I know he's gotten run with Little-Laine last year, but Laine was a ***** awful ES hockey player last year and it made any line he was on ineffective) just doesn't tell us anything about what he could bring us relative to Sheary or Kyle or Vesey. We need to actually watch Jack and project what his game could bring next to some of our players, the stats aren't going to say anything. 

All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone here has really watched an appreciable amount of Jack, and we KNOW that a lot of the guys you list were plain bad NHLers for us. 

FTR I basically have no interest in acquiring him for anything, much less Risto 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think you're leaning too much on points here. Kyle's production has been fine the last two seasons, while his play simultaneously (when put above the fourth line) is a large part of why we failed as a team. Using Roslovic's point totals in 9 minutes a night with Appleton or the Copp line or whatever (I know he's gotten run with Little-Laine last year, but Laine was a ***** awful ES hockey player last year and it made any line he was on ineffective) just doesn't tell us anything about what he could bring us relative to Sheary or Kyle or Vesey. We need to actually watch Jack and project what his game could bring next to some of our players, the stats aren't going to say anything. 

All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone here has really watched an appreciable amount of Jack, and we KNOW that a lot of the guys you list were plain bad NHLers for us. 

FTR I basically have no interest in acquiring him for anything, much less Risto 

And I do have some interest. I think finding young square pegs from other organizations and cheaply plugging them into better fits here is a good way to build. 

But this discussion started with Thorny talking about adding Roslovic to our top six and Thorny has been very vocal about needing quality forwards who can help us now. I look at Roslovic and see a track record that is a whole lot closer toTage Thompson than Marcus Johansson.

I am definitely putting a lot of weight on production. I am basically making the same argument here that you guys were making earlier about Vesey: if we are going to fix our top six, we need better.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dudacek

[Thorny]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

If you define 1st pairing offensive defencemen as defencemen who finish in the top 62 in scoring, we have four of them.

Dahlin 23, Ristolainen 26, Montour 41, Miller 60

This always surprises me. Roslovic put up 9 goals and 24 points last year.

That’s worse than the worst full seasons any of Okposo, Sheary, Vesey and Mittelstadt have ever put up.

I get that he’s young and has upside, but I don’t understand the idea that is a clear upgrade over those guys this season.

I think it's because of the defensive presence he might be able to provide for that line. Seems to be a better option than...

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sheary on the top line makes me want to barf. He is the very definition of an offensive passenger. 

This is what happens when we only have 3 maybe 4 legitimate top 6 players. We are going to have guys in the top 6 that have no business being there. We have arguably 1 top 6 C and 2 maybe 3 top 6 wings in Skinner, Reinhart, and Johansson. Two of those wings are going to the weaker, non-top 6 C (Rodrigues), so I'm counting on Eichel to buoy Sheary. This is why I want to keep Skinner on the top line, so Eichel isn't expected to carry the load alone on that line. 

If we can't get a top 6 C, the priority, we should be bringing in a top 6 W. Then perhaps we'll have 4, which can be rotated around the 2 centres to find the best pairings. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorny]

9 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I like this, although I think Sheary, Olofsson and Vesey (and maybe Jojo) will all be competing for that #1RW spot, and I don’t think Sheary will win that competition.  

Vesey can't win it because he's terrible and if he's on the top line Botterill/Kreuger have failed. I can't see Johansson there, as if Skinner stays, the 2nd line is going to be too weak around a non-top 6 C in Rodrigues. (Sheary - Rodrigues - Reinhart). 

Mittelstadt has to have something to work with on line 3, so I'm keeping Olofsson (or I guess maybe Johansson) on that line. Sheary is going to need to play in the top 6 as things stand. So, put him with Eichel and hope Jack can elevate him. Sheary is definitely the piece that sticks out like a sore thumb in our lineup/top 6. 

It's also dumb (Botterill) that the 4 you listed as competing for 1RW are all left shots. The roster is still super unbalanced. Risto absolutely needs to be moved for a C or RW. And Sheary would then be the odd man out in that top 6. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorny]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@thorny

Funny but I thought you said the lineup was 95% set yet, as I suggested, you just rolled out 3 new ideas for the top 9.  I guess not so set after all.  

Nothing is set in stone right now.  Read the Jbot interview and he is pretty clear they are want many jobs to be won in camp. 

One other note.  You said the bottom of the lineup is something like meaningless.  I think you’ll find not a single organization thinks this.  Good teams get production from their bottom 6.  The Sabres have been trying to upgrade this area for years.  The goal is that we upgrade our depth until guys  Girgensons and Larsson, who add virtually no offense, aren’t here. Once those guys are gone I’ll show you a playoff bound Sabres team.

GTFO of here. I clearly stated I meant bodies wise. Most of the players that will play for the Sabres are here. You are talking configuration of the lineup, which of course is not set. You idea for the roster not being set is akin to deck chairs on the titanic, for the most part.

"Who's gonna win the competition between Girgensons and CJ Smith??!!!! Tune in next week, same Bat time, same Bat channel!" WGAF. 

We are going to have a better bottom 6 when we bring in more top 6 players, pushing guys down in the lineup. Not because we collect 800 replacement players and expect evolution to take place over a single training camp. 

I'm not sure where you are getting your idea for the second bolded. I didn't say the bottom 6 was meaningless, I said it didn't matter who the victor of the competitions were for those bottom 6 jobs because the guys we have competing for those spots who weren't in them last season are all varying levels of replacement player. 

You don't have a very good understanding of what the bottom 6 needs if you think we are waiting on Larsson to be replaced to find success. Larsson is a reasonable bottom 6 player. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think it's because of the defensive presence he might be able to provide for that line. Seems to be a better option than...

This is what happens when we only have 3 maybe 4 legitimate top 6 players. We are going to have guys in the top 6 that have no business being there. We have arguably 1 top 6 C and 2 maybe 3 top 6 wings in Skinner, Reinhart, and Johansson. Two of those wings are going to the weaker, non-top 6 C (Rodrigues), so I'm counting on Eichel to buoy Sheary. This is why I want to keep Skinner on the top line, so Eichel isn't expected to carry the load alone on that line. 

If we can't get a top 6 C, the priority, we should be bringing in a top 6 W. Then perhaps we'll have 4, which can be rotated around the 2 centres to find the best pairings. 

Don't sell Olofsson short.  Really expect that he'll show that he can fit in the top 6 without tanking a line quite well.

Can see him ending up on the 3rd line to give Mittelstadt a scorer (in which case he will be hovering close to 20 goals on the season) but he'll be around 30 if he plays w/ Eichel &/or gets 1PP time.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Don't sell Olofsson short.  Really expect that he'll show that he can fit in the top 6 without tanking a line quite well.

Can see him ending up on the 3rd line to give Mittelstadt a scorer (in which case he will be hovering close to 20 goals on the season) but he'll be around 30 if he plays w/ Eichel &/or gets 1PP time.

Hope springs eternal. We don't need top 6 additions this offseason, it'll all come internally! ?

I still fall in line with the bolded. I'd like to give Mittelstadt one capable player on line 3. If Risto is moved for, say, a Mantha, we should be able to field a capable top 6 wing core and at the same time not feel the need to try Olofsson there. 

Like the idea that with 2 solid top lines, and a capable 4th, we can heavily shelter line 3 with offensive matchups and give Olofsson - Mittelstadt some space to shine. 

We want a better bottom 6? Bring in a top 6 guy allowing a potential top 6 talent in Olofsson to stay in the bottom 6 for now and feast on matchups. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't know.  Maybe this quote

Quote

I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. 

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but saying you don't give a rat's arse about the players in our bottom six reads to me like saying their meaningless.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't know.  Maybe this quote

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but saying you don't give a rat's arse about the particular players currently in/fighting for our bottom six reads to me like saying their meaningless.

Edited for clarity.

It's not competition among replacement level players that builds a good bottom 6. It's players winning the jobs by default because our top 6 is too jammed pack with quality players. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

Edited for clarity.

It's not competition among replacement level players that builds a good bottom 6. It's players winning the jobs by default because our top 6 is too jammed pack with quality players. 

Which it is almost. Reinhart, Johansson, Eichel, Skinner is top 4. That leaves 2 spots for roughly 10 guys? 

[Brawndo]

 

[WildCard]

15 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Yup, no surprise there. Eichel said the same thing; it's a massive jump for rookies to get accustomed to the NHL grind

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Now we have more in shape and smarter Dahlin... it's going to be something. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Yup, no surprise there. Eichel said the same thing; it's a massive jump for rookies to get accustomed to the NHL grind

I wonder what Dahlin's version of the ice cream freezer was