... Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Depends on how you define "great". Quenneville, a great coach if you define "great" as the number of Cup wins a coach has been party to, was still fired. Toe Blake, by that definition, was better than a great coach. because of consecutive wins. In our time, Arbour is his equal. No one, though, beats Scotty Bowman. And Bowman might be the only truly great NHL coach, a guy who could win with any team, seemingly, and who did so throughout his entire career. None of the other "great" coaches have sustained a career like Bowman - again assuming Cup wins are the measure. All of the other "greats" won with the same team, all within the same relative time period. What does that tell you? It should tell you something. So, are we imagining another Bowman is out there waiting to be discovered, or are we going to look at the record, and realize that these "great" coaches weren't operating in a vacuum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 I wonder if we could convince Housley to serve as an associate coach under Quennville? As in demote him without changing his salary and letting him focus on player development and teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Look at what Babcock did with the 2015-16 Leafs, they were ranked 14th in Total Corsi at 51.35 and they were designed to finish 30th. That team out possessed their opponents may a night, however they could not score or make a save. And they scored one less goal then the Sabres that year. Does Housley have a playoff caliber roster, absolutely not. However the question does need to be asked once the Sabres do field a playoff caliber roster is Housley the right coach for it? It's a fair question, but until we get such a roster we’ll never know. I can say this, when they play like Housley wants them to play, the can compete with anyone. I am going to disagree on the talent. We are the second most top heavy team in the NHL after Edm. We get almost 48% of our goals from our top line. The league average is 40%. We still lack any real scoring depth up front. That may be a lack of actual talent or a lack of matured talents (like Mitts and Tage), but the stats clearly state we don’t have horses. Edited March 20, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, ... said: Depends on how you define "great". Quenneville, a great coach if you define "great" as the number of Cup wins a coach has been party to, was still fired. Toe Blake, by that definition, was better than a great coach. because of consecutive wins. In our time, Arbour is his equal. No one, though, beats Scotty Bowman. And Bowman might be the only truly great NHL coach, a guy who could win with any team, seemingly, and who did so throughout his entire career. None of the other "great" coaches have sustained a career like Bowman - again assuming Cup wins are the measure. All of the other "greats" won with the same team, all within the same relative time period. What does that tell you? It should tell you something. So, are we imagining another Bowman is out there waiting to be discovered, or are we going to look at the record, and realize that these "great" coaches weren't operating in a vacuum? Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Q-Ville is a great coach because he consistently made his team a Cup contender despite having major roster turnovers year after year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Cup contenders? In Quenvilles first 10 seasons he had one division title and made it to the final four once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said: Q-Ville is a great coach because he consistently made his team a Cup contender despite having major roster turnovers year after year. I’m calling BS on that. Their core was incredibly stable over their 3 Cup wins over 6 years. Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson were the core of all 3 wins. Saad and Versteeg added depth scoring for two wins each plus they had grinders Bickell and Bolland for 2 wins each. We should be so lucky to be anchored by 4 HOFers, plus 3 other excellent players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I’m calling BS on that. Their core was incredibly stable over their 3 Cup wins over 6 years. Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson were the core of all 3 wins. Saad and Versteeg added depth scoring for two wins each plus they had grinders Bickell and Bolland for 2 wins each. We should be so lucky to be anchored by 4 HOFers, plus 3 other excellent players Yes, that is a great core. But you don't win with seven players, I don't care how good they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said: Yes, that is a great core. But you don't win with seven players, I don't care how good they are. Yet you think Housley should be winning and isn't even close to that roster talent....hmmmm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said: Yes, that is a great core. But you don't win with seven players, I don't care how good they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said: Yet you think Housley should be winning and isn't even close to that roster talent....hmmmm. I think his win percentage since the win streak should be significantly better than the tank teams that we're designed to fail. Yet they aren't. Don't twist my words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Why does everyone insist on pretending the win streak didn’t exist? Blues are awful. Without their 11 game win streak, they’d be bottom five in the league. Take away that run where the Flyers won 12 of 14 and they are dead last in the league. It doesn’t make sense for those teams, so why does it for us? Why aren’t you saying that if it wasn’t for our recent streak of losing nine of 10, we’d still be in the race? We are what our record says we are. (Besides, with the exception of winning the Dahlin lottery, the streak as the happiest I’ve been as a hockey fan in maybe 10 years.) Edited March 20, 2019 by dudacek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, dudacek said: Why does everyone insist on pretending the win streak didn’t exist? Blues are awful. Without their 11 game win streak, they’d be bottom five in the league. Take away that run where the Flyers won 12 of 14 and they are dead last in the league. It doesn’t make sense for those teams, so why does it for us? Why aren’t you saying that if it wasn’t for our recent streak of losing nine of 10, we’d still be in the race? We are what our record says we are. (Besides, with the exception of winning the Dahlin lottery, the streak as the happiest I’ve been as a hockey fan in maybe 10 years.) Blues had a long win streak. Sabres had a long win streak. There's one major difference............ They're in the playoff hunt. Take away the Sabres win streak and they're dead last in the league. Even worse than the Phlyers would have been. Edited March 20, 2019 by JJFIVEOH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, dudacek said: Why does everyone insist on pretending the win streak didn’t exist? Blues are awful. Without their 11 game win streak, they’d be bottom five in the league. Take away that run where the Flyers won 12 of 14 and they are dead last in the league. It doesn’t make sense for those teams, so why does it for us? Why aren’t you saying that if it wasn’t for our recent streak of losing nine of 10, we’d still be in the race? We are what our record says we are. (Besides, with the exception of winning the Dahlin lottery, the streak as the happiest I’ve been as a hockey fan in maybe 10 years.) In part because it happened so early. Also because of how bad we've been outside of it. BTW, the Blues aren't awful. They're sitting at a +14 goal differential. While that's hardly world beater status, they're definitely more than just a lucky win streak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said: In part because it happened so early. Also because of how bad we've been outside of it. BTW, the Blues aren't awful. They're sitting at a +14 goal differential. While that's hardly world beater status, they're definitely more than just a lucky win streak. The Blues are light years ahead of where the Sabres are right now, even if they probably won't win the Cup this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, dudacek said: Why does everyone insist on pretending the win streak didn’t exist? Blues are awful. Without their 11 game win streak, they’d be bottom five in the league. Take away that run where the Flyers won 12 of 14 and they are dead last in the league. It doesn’t make sense for those teams, so why does it for us? Why aren’t you saying that if it wasn’t for our recent streak of losing nine of 10, we’d still be in the race? We are what our record says we are. (Besides, with the exception of winning the Dahlin lottery, the streak as the happiest I’ve been as a hockey fan in maybe 10 years.) So we are 25th overall with the added benefit of a lucky win-streak. And that says a lot about how bad we've been sans streak, to fall so far after being in 1st place 30% of the way through the season. The underlying metrics said that win streak wasn't sustainable, whereas the losing streak was statistically appropriate. That's a big difference. One was an anomaly relative to the rest of the season, whereas the other was much more representative of the season as a whole. --- Totally agreed on the streak, though, enjoyment wise. I'm very thankful for it as it provided a really fun month in an otherwise downer season. Edited March 20, 2019 by Thorny 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Why does everyone insist on pretending the win streak didn’t exist? Because they've been tank level bad outside of it. Not mediocre. Not below average. Among worst in the league bad. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 I wonder sometimes if Housley was told to not worry about winning games but focus on developing the system this year. He certainly does not seem to coach individual games and situations or create specific game plans for the opponent. So I guess you have to half empty half full things and choose whether you believe he is bad at that, or he will be doing that differently next year. Wait and see I guess cause he isn't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 You get swept by Toronto, you get fired. It's pretty simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I wonder sometimes if Housley was told to not worry about winning games but focus on developing the system this year. He certainly does not seem to coach individual games and situations or create specific game plans for the opponent. So I guess you have to half empty half full things and choose whether you believe he is bad at that, or he will be doing that differently next year. Wait and see I guess cause he isn't going anywhere. We say this every year. ...and it could very well be true. Edited March 21, 2019 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Brawndo said: Look at what Babcock did with the 2015-16 Leafs, they were ranked 14th in Total Corsi at 51.35 and they were designed to finish 30th. That team out possessed their opponents many a night, however they could not score or make a save. And they scored one less goal then the Sabres that year. Once more talented players came on the roster, they were a playoff team. Does Housley have a playoff caliber roster, no but he does have the talent to be in the race right now. The question does need to be asked once the Sabres do field a playoff caliber roster is Housley the right coach for it? I’m saying no to this one. think this thread can be closed. There is no other conclusion other than “yes” he needs to be fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: I’m saying no to this one. think this thread can be closed. There is no other conclusion other than “yes” he needs to be fired The team, after winning 10 times in 10 tries at one point, has won 14 times in their next 48 tries. It's legitimately more astounding than disappointing. Edited March 21, 2019 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I wonder sometimes if Housley was told to not worry about winning games but focus on developing the system this year. He certainly does not seem to coach individual games and situations or create specific game plans for the opponent. So I guess you have to half empty half full things and choose whether you believe he is bad at that, or he will be doing that differently next year. Wait and see I guess cause he isn't going anywhere. I've had enough waiting and seeing. This organization is an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 But but but ... let’s give Phil another full season cause like ... optics n stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zamboni said: But but but ... let’s give Phil another full season cause like ... optics n stuff . My guess would be it's more related to desired stability than it is to optical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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