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matter2003

Resemblance to the 2005-2006 Team coming out of the lockout?

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Just seems to have some similarities to me...the team came out and was kind of unexpectedly good immediately that year and we didn't know whether to really believe if they were good early on or if they were just getting lucky.  They could skate, had a lot of young guys making key contributions, and were a lot of fun to watch.  

Will this team go on to repeat what that team did and make the playoffs?  Who knows.  All I know is this team really has started to remind me of that one in a lot of ways. I don't like the way they are getting outplayed at the beginning of a lot of games but at some point it almost seems like they flip a switch and just completely take over the game near the midway point or near the end of the 2nd period and just dominate the game in the 3rd for the most part.

This team has only started its journey towards becoming good again, and is going to be a lot of fun to watch in the upcoming years, especially now that we don't have to worry about locking up their good players due to money issues.

Edited by matter2003

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Matt LarkinVerified account @THNMattLarkin 12m12 minutes ago
Fun fact: since the start of 2016-17, Jack Eichel averages more points per game than Alex Ovechkin, Auston Matthews, John Tavares, Artemi Panarin and Tyler Seguin. Cherrypicking? Of course. but just making a point that Eichel = gooood

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We need a lot more depth scoring before I am ready to make that comparison. the 05-06 Sabres had 11 guys with over 40 points, a 6 guys with over 20 goals...absurd numbers there. 

but, things are starting to pan out similarly in that we didn't expect much this year other than improvement on last season, just like we didn't expect much from them coming out of the lock out.

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I’d love to hear what Pommers thinks since he has been here for both turnarounds. Then again so have Chris Taylor and Jbot to a certain extent.

There is a similar feel, but the cores of the two teams are completely different.

The 2005-6 was a team of guys at or near their peek.  Drury was 29, Kotalik 26, Briere 27, Connolly 24, Max 25, Campbell 26, Kalinin 25, Lydman and McKee 27, Hecht 28.  Even Miller was 25.  The 3 Kids, Pommers (22), Roy (22) and Vanek (21) had much more experience as pros then some of our kids today.  Only Vanek was a blue chip player.

This team has a different pedigree which may mean a longer run of success.  The core is also younger.  Dahlin is 18, Mittelstadt 19, Eichel 21, Reinhart 22 and Ristolainen 23.  The only key players arguably in their primes are Skinner 26, Sheary 26, McCabe 24, Scandella and Bogo 28.  Skinner, Jack, Casey, Bogo, Sam, Risto and Dahlin are all top 10 draft picks.  With that core, plus top 10 pick like Nylander, we could have a decade worth of great hockey vs 2 years.

 

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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This team is somewhat like the 2005-06 team in that both teams never quit and frequently overcame deficits in thrilling fashion.

However, most of the mainstays on the 2005-06 teams were pickups and castoffs from other teams with a bit more experience, while most of the current team's mainstays are homegrown and younger.  Also, as @Marions Piazza points out, the 2005-06 team had tons of scoring up and down the lineup.  The Vanek-Roy-Max line was their 3rd line and was highly productive -- Vanek had I think 36 goals but was still healthy-scratched in the playoffs! -- and created major matchup difficulties for the opponents.

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Yeah I think this current team is way more top heavy than the 06'-07' team. That team was great because they had three lines that were all equally dangerous, so the other team couldn't match up with their depth scoring. The current team is really led by the Eichel/Skinner line and scoring from the defense. 

I really think the only comparison between the two is that they were/are unexpectedly successful. But they are doing it in completely different ways.

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Perhaps a comparison to 98-99 is more apt?  After all, we're only in a lot of these games due to goaltending.

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30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d love to hear what Pommers thinks since he has been here for both turnarounds. Then again so have Chris Taylor and Jbot to a certain extent.

There is a similar feel, but the cores of the two teams are completely different.

The 2005-6 was a team of guys at or near their peek.  Drury was 29, Kotalik 26, Briere 27, Connolly 24, Max 25, Campbell 26, Kalinin 25, Lydman and McKee 27, Hecht 28.  Even Miller was 25.  The 3 Kids, Pommers (22), Roy (22) and Vanek (21) had much more experience as pros then some of our kids today.  Only Vanek was a blue chip player.

This team has a different pedigree which may mean a longer run of success.  The core is also younger.  Dahlin is 18, Mittelstadt 19, Eichel 21, Reinhart 22 and Ristolainen 23.  The only key players arguably in their primes are Skinner 26, Sheary 26, McCabe 24, Scandella and Bogo 28.  Skinner, Jack, Casey, Bogo, Sam, Risto and Dahlin are all top 10 draft picks.  With that core, plus top 10 pick like Nylander, we could have a decade worth of great hockey vs 2 years.

 

 

definitely haven't thought of it this way, great thinking and post

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2 minutes ago, Marions Piazza said:

definitely haven't thought of it this way, great thinking and post

Thank you. 

One interesting thing is the comparison of the PK.  One of the things I really remember about 05-06 was the great PK.  I knew if we got a penalty 9 times out of 10 they’d kill it and keep us in the game.  They finished 2nd that year at about 88%.

This year I’m getting a similar feel.  We are 6th right now at 83% but we are getting better each week.  

Special teams drove that 05-06 team (they also finished 3rd on the PP.  They aren’t quite the driver this season but if we can get the PP clicking, this team could become just as dangerous as 05-06.

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11 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Perhaps a comparison to 98-99 is more apt?  After all, we're only in a lot of these games due to goaltending.

Oh wow...I wasn't aware Hutton scored 5 goals last night also.

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Thank you. 

One interesting thing is the comparison of the PK.  One of the things I really remember about 05-06 was the great PK.  I knew if we got a penalty 9 times out of 10 they’d kill it and keep us in the game.  They finished 2nd that year at about 88%.

This year I’m getting a similar feel.  We are 6th right now at 83% but we are getting better each week.  

Special teams drove that 05-06 team (they also finished 3rd on the PP.  They aren’t quite the driver this season but if we can get the PP clicking, this team could become just as dangerous as 05-06.

Remember how bad the PP was the following year tho when we literally wanted to decline the penalty because we would give up more shorthanded opportunities than get shots, and half the time couldn't even get into the zone?

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Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Thank you. 

One interesting thing is the comparison of the PK.  One of the things I really remember about 05-06 was the great PK.  I knew if we got a penalty 9 times out of 10 they’d kill it and keep us in the game.  They finished 2nd that year at about 88%.

This year I’m getting a similar feel.  We are 6th right now at 83% but we are getting better each week.  

Special teams drove that 05-06 team (they also finished 3rd on the PP.  They aren’t quite the driver this season but if we can get the PP clicking, this team could become just as dangerous as 05-06.

AND actually play better in the 1st period...yikes, we'd be scary.

Special teams is super important, was it the Winnipeg game that we killed the penalty late in the game that went in to OT and then took another one to finish OT? 

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They remind me a little bit of Nashville when Housley was there. They were a fun team to watch , in part because of their defensemen. They moved the puck, they jumped in on the play and they were physical. I loved watching them during their playoff run. I see some similarities now.

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10 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Oh wow...I wasn't aware Hutton scored 5 goals last night also.

Remember how bad the PP was the following year tho when we literally wanted to decline the penalty because we would give up more shorthanded opportunities than get shots, and half the time couldn't even get into the zone?

He didn't, but he kept us in the game and gave us a chance to win ,  just like he has most of the time this year. That did not happen last season, among other issues with the team.

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8 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Oh wow...I wasn't aware Hutton scored 5 goals last night also.

Don't be asinine.  In thread after thread we marvel at the fact that the Sabres start slow, and even when the other team scores X goals, it's been goaltending that kept the game within reach.

 

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36 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d love to hear what Pommers thinks since he has been here for both turnarounds. Then again so have Chris Taylor and Jbot to a certain extent.

There is a similar feel, but the cores of the two teams are completely different.

The 2005-6 was a team of guys at or near their peek.  Drury was 29, Kotalik 26, Briere 27, Connolly 24, Max 25, Campbell 26, Kalinin 25, Lydman and McKee 27, Hecht 28.  Even Miller was 25.  The 3 Kids, Pommers (22), Roy (22) and Vanek (21) had much more experience as pros then some of our kids today.  Only Vanek was a blue chip player.

This team has a different pedigree which may mean a longer run of success.  The core is also younger.  Dahlin is 18, Mittelstadt 19, Eichel 21, Reinhart 22 and Ristolainen 23.  The only key players arguably in their primes are Skinner 26, Sheary 26, McCabe 24, Scandella and Bogo 28.  Skinner, Jack, Casey, Bogo, Sam, Risto and Dahlin are all top 10 draft picks.  With that core, plus top 10 pick like Nylander, we could have a decade worth of great hockey vs 2 years.

 

 

Well, 2 years was self imposed.  It should've been more like 5-6.

And I do expect this current team to be good longer than that.  10 years would be awesome.  But even with breaks working against them, they should be in the mix for about 8.

Thing is, that difference in ages (from '06 to today) is why right now I am not quite sold on these guys yet. They don't feel like that squad (though if they can sustain this & come out of the next 9 5-4-0 or better, the standings will say they are).  They NEED that early goaltending to finally get going, and the '05-'06 squad could dominate to a point they didn't always need Miller to stand on his head.   Though they did take a step back w/ Miller's thumb injury, that team had come out of the gate well & was building off where they were previously.  This squad is following some historically bad hockey & without the goaltending upgrade would still only be middling.

But their D pairings (hopefully) will have more similarities to that '06 squad that was just fair to start the season but was running a veteran Finn & a nearly Norris quality D-man at the end of the year along with some NA toughness into pretty much the best top 6 D (when healthy) of the entire league.

They definitely don't feel like the '86 Habs (a youth dominated squad that ran the table) at present, but watching the joy on their faces in these games MAYBE  there's a BIT of the '80-'81 Eulers.  A VERY young & talented team that rode some very good goaltending to a stunning 1st round upset before being vanquished afterputting a scareinto the eventual SC champions.  Those Eulers were still quite a ways away, but '81 was their coming out party & showed they were agood NHL squad.

But regardless, they're fun to watch & the 3rd period confidence is contagious.

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3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, 2 years was self imposed.  It should've been more like 5-6.

But that is another reason why it may be different this time.  Management.  DR did a great job building that team from bits and pieces thrown away from other teams plus some lucky drafting (Campbell, Kotalik, Gaustad and Miller).  However he was under huge $ constraints from Quinn and Golisano, Which is why it died quickly.

This time Jbot is firmly in control and TP to his credit has given him the leeway to build it properly.  I expect Jbot to pay the core players, keep a strong farm system and keep it going for at least a decade.

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6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But that is another reason why it may be different this time.  Management.  DR did a great job building that team from bits and pieces thrown away from other teams plus some lucky drafting (Campbell, Kotalik, Gaustad and Miller).  However he was under huge $ constraints from Quinn and Golisano, Which is why it died quickly.

This time Jbot is firmly in control and TP to his credit has given him the leeway to build it properly.  I expect Jbot to pay the core players, keep a strong farm system and keep it going for at least a decade.

I hope to see it last 10+, & agree that we FINALLY appear to be in position for Pegula bucks & his treatment of players to be a positive for us.

But after having endured the past 20 years (& a lot more) where even when we were on a high there was always the threat of the rocks below being JUST far enough away to be able to bash our skulls when we hit them as we knew ownership was going to force the fall; not ready to truly avail myself of THAT wishful of thinking.  Right now, enjoying this season & imagining how much better next season should be are enough to think, yeah, we could get used to this for another 2.  8's about as far as I'll dream for now.

 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:
Matt LarkinVerified account @THNMattLarkin 12m12 minutes ago
Fun fact: since the start of 2016-17, Jack Eichel averages more points per game than Alex Ovechkin, Auston Matthews, John Tavares, Artemi Panarin and Tyler Seguin. Cherrypicking? Of course. but just making a point that Eichel = gooood

Of course he's good. Even goood. But gooood? I dunno.

35 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Don't be asinine.  In thread after thread we marvel at the fact that the Sabres start slow, and even when the other team scores X goals, it's been goaltending that kept the game within reach.

 

That's not really how Dom did it though. The Sabres aren't winning these games 1-0 with Bogosian blasting a shot off Berglund's ear and into the net.

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29 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Don't be asinine.  In thread after thread we marvel at the fact that the Sabres start slow, and even when the other team scores X goals, it's been goaltending that kept the game within reach.

 

Correct.  Hutton was first star of last nights game going away (save on Kessel was a major turning point).  I'm allowing myself to enjoy the moment here, but I'm not that naïve to ignore that for the better part of two periods, we were abhorrent and were totally outplayed by a struggling team.   In any event, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit when comparing this team to '05-'06.  We are on the right track, and are showing lots of good qualities, but I'm not quite where the other board members are yet with the optimism.

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A nice little discussion from the past... Thanks to those in that topic that are still tapping the keys here:

 

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One common thread between this team and the 2005 squad, besides the negative press (Thanks SDS), is a team adapted to the way the game is played at the time.  That team would love today’s NHL of smaller, faster and more skilled players.  That team was able to take advantage of the post lockout rules and the open ice that came with it not unlike this team.

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The fans are voting with their feet. Despite a bold move by ownership to lure them back, early season attendance is disappointing.

It's no surprise — the patrons are fed up after several years without a playoff appearance, including a lockout season. And this franchise just can't score goals, and that's no fun. The arena has been dead inside.

But there are hopeful signs. It's suddenly another live puck era as the league tries to get the red lights to come on more often. The refs have been instructed to crack down on fouls that prevent offensive players from doing what they do best: skate and score.

Perhaps even the Sabres can take advantage. In fits and starts in the early going, they do just that, including almost 10 times in a memorable win at home.

The real problem of course is winning enough games to get back into the hunt. A 6-4 start is OK but just on the edge of what's needed to make the postseason. What they need is... a streak.

It's been many, many years since they've had a really good one, say six games — back during what looks in comparison to be the good old days. As the season gets going, the Sabres win a handful in a row, two or three, but six remains a pipe dream.

They're getting closer though. You can feel it.

Finally, with the holidays fast approaching, it happens! There's a 3-2 win in Minnesota, one of two wins out West. There are two overtime wins, one in Pittsburgh, in an all-time franchise house of horrors. The captain got that one early in the proceedings. There's a narrow win at home over a team from the Western Conference, and number six comes against the Penguins.

Seven straight? Only a game against the hated Flyers stood in their way.

Edited by PASabreFan
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This right here was a turning point in that unforgettable year.

Ottawa was soooooo loaded that year, with all-stars at forward and D and a guy named Dominik in net.

They had crushed the Sabres 3 times before this game -- 5-0, 10-4 and 6-1.

This time it was taut, hard-fought and evenly played. 1-1 after regulation, and no scoring in OT.  Miller stopped Alfie and Heatley, and Vanek then had a chance to win it.

Here he comes:

 

 

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2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Perhaps a comparison to 98-99 is more apt?  After all, we're only in a lot of these games due to goaltending.

The 98-99 team was a skating cardiac arrest for lack of scoring and Hasek standing on his head. But as for a comparison.... That 98-99 team was coming off an Eastern Conference Finals loss. They didn't surprise anyone or sneak up on anyone in '99 (you could even argue they underachieved in the regular season until Barnes and Juneau and Warrener showed up and solidified the lines/pairings).

Today's team is led by under-23 top-end talent (top-10 draft picks). I'm not sure we have a season/era team that compares to this one. We are new.

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2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

They remind me a little bit of Nashville when Housley was there. They were a fun team to watch , in part because of their defensemen. They moved the puck, they jumped in on the play and they were physical. I loved watching them during their playoff run. I see some similarities now.

I think this is far more accurate than any Sabres team I can recall.  They do remind me of Nashville and that fun style they play/played.

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