Eichel Hammy Interview 8/22

[PASabreFan]

19 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Through the 1st 15 games (which includes 3 November games) there were exactly 5 players w/ more than 5 points.  Eichel (14), his 2 linemates (15 & 13 respectively), O'Reilly (12), & Pouliot (7) were the 5.

Clearly, the slow start was on Eichel. <_<

5-8-2 was a slow start for sure — losing 13 of the next 15 took things to another level. And in those 15 games Eichel's production dropped. By game 30 the season was over, if it wasn't over before that. Four of the losses were in OT; many of the losses were reasonably close. Eichel could have made a difference. Yes, it happens. All I've been pointing out, which should be a giant "duh!", is that Eichel and the team can't do it again this season.

[LTS]

Cherry picking season ends mid-August around WNY.

 

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

5-8-2 was a slow start for sure — losing 13 of the next 15 took things to another level. And in those 15 games Eichel's production dropped. By game 30 the season was over, if it wasn't over before that. Four of the losses were in OT; many of the losses were reasonably close. Eichel could have made a difference. Yes, it happens. All I've been pointing out, which should be a giant "duh!", is that Eichel and the team can't do it again this season.

I totally agree....bravo!!!!

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I was trying to add context to Eichel's season. Maybe someone should figure out Eichel's ppg and league ranking from just before Christmas through the end.

 

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

 All I've been pointing out, which should be a giant "duh!", is that Eichel and the team can't do it again this season.

I think this is the context. It can't happen again. It isn't acceptable and Eichel needs to be part of the solution. I think his individual production  has been good but we need more than just points. We need some leadership on this team. 

[pi2000]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I think this is the context. It can't happen again. It isn't acceptable and Eichel needs to be part of the solution. I think his individual production  has been good but we need more than just points. We need some leadership on this team. 

They need leadership from the players but more importantly the head coach.     
They also need players who take pride in their ability to defend.    

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I think this is the context. It can't happen again. It isn't acceptable and Eichel needs to be part of the solution. I think his individual production  has been good but we need more than just points. We need some leadership on this team. 

You said it better than I could.  

[Thorny]

19 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think you supplied the best answer to your question.

It won’t happen until Eichel has a season like MacKinnon just had - 90 points, and leads his team to the playoffs.

Until then, we’re talking about his potential.

 

I agree.

I do take issue however when his production rate within his first 3 seasons is construed as anything other than a success. A near point-per-game pace in his most recent two seasons is anything other than a disappointment or an indication that he isn't living up to his ability/potential thus far. 

If his production stays as is and fails to improve, ya, we'd have an issue. I don't see that happening, though. At his age, with his ability, and with the production he's had so far, there's no reason to suspect that would be the case.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Thorny

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

He had 7 points in October. If that is considered fast, then I think we Sabres fans need to re-calibrate.

Except, he had 12 points in October. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Except, he had 12 points in October. 

?

Sorry. I meant November.

[inkman]

I was wondering how a boring interview in the dregs of the off-season could get so many posts. Then I read this thread. Mistake. ?

[PASabreFan]

Back to reality: If Eichel thought his first two seasons were "mediocre," what did he think of his third? I'm pretty sure I know where Jack would come down in this debate, and that's to his credit.

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Back to reality: If Eichel thought his first two seasons were "mediocre," what did he think of his third? I'm pretty sure I know where Jack would come down in this debate, and that's to his credit.

To your point, he'd definitely say the same thing about his third. The fact that he thinks seasons of an ~80 point pace are mediocre bodes well, regardless of how off-base that sentiment seems to me. 

A lot of his disappointment with regards to his second year though is probably rooted in the extended time he missed due to injury. 

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

A lot of his disappointment with regards to his second year though is probably rooted in the extended time he missed due to injury. 

Wasn't that the season he admitted to giving up at the end of the season and missed a performance bonus because of it?  I think there is more to be disappointed about than the injury.

[Thorny]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

Wasn't that the season he admitted to giving up at the end of the season and missed a performance bonus because of it?  I think there is more to be disappointed about than the injury.

Right, that's why I said "a lot" and not "all".

There are certainly things that didn't go the way we'd have wanted them to within that season, but looking at the season as a whole, and last season too, I still feel they were generally very good seasons for a player of his age. Like I said, an ~80 point pace is certainly nothing to sneeze at, particularly given the team he was playing on.

Serious question to PA, Weave, or anyone disappointed in his most recent two seasons as a whole: what were you expecting? Was your expectation a 90 point pace from someone starting those seasons at age 19 and 20? Is it rooted in the team's failure to make the playoffs? Were you expecting more maturity right from the get go? 

To expect a better production rate (within those years) than what we saw is still something I'd consider to be pretty questionable. The team concern I get, but there's so much blame to go around there, beyond just Jack. I'd get the maturity concerns the most, I'd say those hold the most water. But because he's still so young and has shown much improvement in that regard as of late, it's not something that bothers me, personally. 

---

He's a 10 million dollar man this year, so he's certainly past the point where anything less that a seasoned vet's maturity is acceptable going forward. If he isn't given the C prior to the season starting, I'd have a level of concern. As for production rate, I think the bar is a point per game. He should be at that level or above going forward.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Hey, I have been the propaganda master for the “kids get better” movement. I can’t argue at all with the above, especially the part that the maturity pass expires this season.. I do think some have a double standard though, in how they will forgive the youth thing in Jack, but not Sam, or vice versa.

Edited August 28, 2018 by dudacek

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Hey, I have been the propaganda master for the “kids get better” movement. I can’t argue at all with the above, especially the part that the maturity pass expires this season.. I do think some have a double standard though, in how they will forgive the youth thing in Jack, but not Sam, or vice versa.

Sam is an interesting one. I certainly did my fair share of ragging on the guy last season, but that was because he was producing at a near non-existent rate for half the season. I say he's an interesting one not just because he had perhaps the largest contrast in half-seasons I've ever seen, but also because he seems to be more of a wildcard in terms of where his mindset is at. 

It's sort of accepted that Jack came into the league as this immature kid, but what of Sam? Is he level headed and grounded like we heard so much while he was playing in the WJC? Or did he, similar to Jack, have a ton of growing up to do, as evidenced by the whispers we heard around the time he was made to sit on the bench without playing, for instance?

[erickompositör72]

Am I the only one who feels that Samson's game finally just "clicked"? Meaning, he's figured out how to use his skills at an NHL level, and he's established a new floor for himself?

My observation of him lead me to believe it wasn't just a blip or a hot streak, but he's now playing a totally different game that will be consistent and effective, and he's poised to build tremendously off of it. I have high hopes for Samson.

[dudacek]

I think @nfreeman correctly reads Sam as entitled. He is a rich West Van son of a former NHLer who has been better than his peers all his life. What I think freeman misses is that he is the youngest and highest achieving of three boys, with all the competitive stubbornness that implies.

He was awful to start last year. The centring Griffith and Other scraps was part of it. The fact that Botterill and Housley didn’t seem to dote on him the way Murray did may have also been part of it. I think there may have been more. Something happened though and he found his game when the calendar turned.

I don’t think it’s money, money is not an issue for Sam. I do think it could have been pride and I am OK with that as a motivator.

I don’t agree with those who characterize his 37 points in 39 games finish as a hot streak. Hot streaks last a week or two, not months. I think he found his game -as a lot of 22-year-olds do, and there is no looking back. Nobody arrives in the NHL fully formed as a teenager, not McDavid, not Matthews, and not Reinhart. It takes time. And I believe the player we drafted has arrived.

Edited August 28, 2018 by dudacek

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think @nfreeman correctly reads Sam as entitled. He is a rich West Van son of a former NHLer who has been better than his peers all his life. What I think he misses is that he is the youngest and highest achieving of three boys, with all the competitive stubbornness that implies.

He was awful to start last year. The centring Griffith and Other scraps was part of it. The fact that Botterill and Housley didn’t seem to dote on him the way Murray did may have also been part of it. I think there may have been more. Something happened though and he found his game when the calendar turned.

I don’t think it’s money, money is not an issue for Sam. I do think it could have been pride and I am OK with that as a motivator.

I don’t agree with those who characterize his 37 points in 39 games finish as a hot streak. Hot streaks last a week or two, not months. I think he found his game -as a lot of 22-year-olds do, and there is no looking back. Nobody arrives in the NHL fully formed as a teenager, not McDavid, not Matthews, and not Reinhart. It takes time. And I believe the player we drafted has arrived.

The bolded is key. It's much easier to see second-half Sam as the "real" Sam, because that is the man he was drafted to be. His successes in the second half of last season were in line with draft projections, not in spite of them.

It's pretty exciting in a sense, in that his 37 in 39 pace equates to 78 points in a full season. That might even be more offence that what was hoped for him. So there's some wiggle room there, even if a portion of that stretch can be attributed to a "hot streak". With plenty of room to continue developing, as well. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Won't the real Sam Reinhart please stand up? 

[PASabreFan]

Standard boilerplate text here about being careful when evaluating team/player success when the season is effectively over.