Eichel Hammy Interview 8/22

[LGR4GM]

 

39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You didn't even get the PPG rank correct. http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/points/sort/avgPoints

I am going to set the bar at 5games. If you played less than 5 games you don't count. After you do that it eliminates 7 players all of who played 2 games or less. Then you have to take into account the fact that Jack Eichel was tied in ppg with 2 other players. So even if your rank of 39 was right I could say 37th instead because ties, interesting you took the lowest possible for Jack.

Finally what we have is a list of roughly 33 players instead of 40 and counting the ties, Jack Eichel was 29th not 39th in PPG last year based off of the ESPN stats I located. He was tied with Forsberg and Benn.  Considering Buffalo (199) scored 9 fewer goals than the next closest team Arizona and there are only 2 teams (Montreal and Arizona) within 10 goals of the Sabres... no I am not disappointed a team with the worst offensive output in the entire league bar none, had Jack Eichel at 29th in PPG. For the record, no one from Arizona (208), Montreal (209), Detroit (217), or Vancouver (218) is on the list above Eichel. Those are the 4 teams directly ahead of Buffalo in goals scored last season. 

(Note Van tied with Calgary in goals with 218, Calgary has Johnny Gaudreau on the list tied at 16th overall in PPG. To get Eichel to Guadreau, Jack would have needed to get roughly 6 more points in the same number of games played.)

 

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

(I went by nhl.com.)

And that's a lot of hoops to jump through to make Jack look a little less disappointing. One thing to think about is that scoring went up last year in the NHL and Jack couldn't take advantage. Now, that might very well point to Housley.

There seems to be some excuse-making going on here. Some of you are waiting for the perfect scenario for Jack where he's surrounded by all this talent. Then he'll take off and lead the Sabres somewhere. In reality, he is the talent who's supposed to lead. It just hasn't happened yet, apparently because he's just not good enough to do so. No great criticism of Jack there, he'd have to be someone pretty special to do so. Maybe he's just going to be a very good player if the team is ever very good. No shame. The first three years will have been kind of a reality check.

Also, breaking down his season last year, it was the first two months that was the problem. He can't have that kind of slow start again. Because the team can't.

Now someone can tell me he didn't really have a slow start because the Sabres can't score goals and strength of opposition and Relative Mikko Makela on Sundays.

A lot of hoops? I took out the 7 players who played 2 games or less. That's just common sense. Then I didn't put him last in a group of players he was tied with. I don't think he looked disappointing, you do which is why you did what you did and how you did it. 

As for the rest of your post, League scoring went up, Sabres scoring did not. They scored 2 less goals then they did the previous year. League scoring went up while the Sabres basically stayed the same and there were suddenly more players above Eichel in PPG... funny how that works. 

I like how at the end of all that you post some BS to try and validate your other points. Jack Started slow, it's why he and his team weren't better last season. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by LGR4GM

[erickompositör72]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A lot of hoops?

I thought the same thing. What struck me as "proper context" was characterized by PA as "a lot of hoops"

[LGR4GM]

Why taking away the players with 2 or less games played is just common sense. Justin Holl, defender. He played in 2 games and had 2 points. That gives him a 1.0ppg. Justin also had 2 shots on goal and 2 goals. That gives him a 100sh%. Now do we really believe that Justin will have a 100sh% over the course of more than a couple games? The answer is no and the question rhetorical.

Just now, erickompositör72 said:

I thought the same thing. What struck me as "proper context" was characterized by PA as "a lot of hoops"

Considering I was called out for "proper context" earlier this week, I felt it appropriate that I apply some the next time I used stats. 

[dudacek]

So Jack was 29th in PPG.

Is that where you generally  expect him to be over the next 5 or 6 years?

Is that the standard we should be content with?

[LGR4GM]

Here's more context, depending on how you round Eichel could be 30th in PPG. Jamie Benn is higher before rounding. 

Just now, dudacek said:

So Jack was 29th in PPG.

Is that where you generally  expect him to be over the next 5 or 6 years?

Is that the standard we should be content with?

No but the year before he was 11th. We need jack to be consistent at or above 1ppg. That's the threshold we need from him. 80-90 point season for 82 game seasons. 

[LGR4GM]

We lost ROR and Kane but added Skinner, Dahlin, Sheary, Thompson, and Mittelstadt. Should Jack need them? No. Will the help him? Yes. Chicken and Egg. Will Eichel be better because health and maturity or will Eichel be better because he doesn't have to feed passes to Justin Bailey or Zemgus Girgensons anymore? 

[PASabreFan]

25 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

I thought the same thing. What struck me as "proper context" was characterized by PA as "a lot of hoops"

I'd say getting down to rounding to tenths of points and moving Eichel up in a group of tied players is "hoops."

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Here's more context, depending on how you round Eichel could be 30th in PPG. Jamie Benn is higher before rounding. 

No but the year before he was 11th. We need jack to be consistent at or above 1ppg. That's the threshold we need from him. 80-90 point season for 82 game seasons. 

Is it OK to want more?

[PASabreFan]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

A lot of hoops? I took out the 7 players who played 2 games or less. That's just common sense. Then I didn't put him last in a group of players he was tied with. I don't think he looked disappointing, you do which is why you did what you did and how you did it. 

As for the rest of your post, League scoring went up, Sabres scoring did not. They scored 2 less goals then they did the previous year. League scoring went up while the Sabres basically stayed the same and there were suddenly more players above Eichel in PPG... funny how that works. 

I like how at the end of all that you post some BS to try and validate your other points. Jack Started slow, it's why he and his team weren't better last season. 

Why are you acting like Eichel didn't contribute to the Sabres' scoring woes, especially early in the season? I'm not sure how to read your last sentence. Are you denying that Jack got off to a slow start? OMG it's August and now I have to go look at game by game stats from last fall. #fml #likeomg

[dudacek]

Off the ice, Mittelstadt telling reporters Jack flew out to Minny this summer and organized a golf game for Casey and a handful of other Sabres living in the area, just as a bonding trip.

 

[PASabreFan]

OK — to be precise, Eichel didn't have a slow start. He had 4-7 in the first nine games. But from just before Halloween to just before Christmas, with the season circling the drain, he had roughly the same production (4-9) but in 27 games. Then, IIRC, came the stick breaking and the sitdown with Brandon Claus and he started to produce again.

[7+6=13]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

(I went by nhl.com.)

And that's a lot of hoops to jump through to make Jack look a little less disappointing. One thing to think about is that scoring went up last year in the NHL and Jack couldn't take advantage. Now, that might very well point to Housley.

There seems to be some excuse-making going on here. Some of you are waiting for the perfect scenario for Jack where he's surrounded by all this talent. Then he'll take off and lead the Sabres somewhere. In reality, he is the talent who's supposed to lead. It just hasn't happened yet, apparently because he's just not good enough to do so. No great criticism of Jack there, he'd have to be someone pretty special to do so. Maybe he's just going to be a very good player if the team is ever very good. No shame. The first three years will have been kind of a reality check.

Also, breaking down his season last year, it was the first two months that was the problem. He can't have that kind of slow start again. Because the team can't.

Now someone can tell me he didn't really have a slow start because the Sabres can't score goals and strength of opposition and Relative Mikko Makela on Sundays.

Wow, this is not just a difference in opinion, you're just wrong.  I mean seriously man,  I'm not sure I'll ever be able to respect an actual hockey thing you say again because of how faulty your logic is here.  

I'll just pick one of the many things incorrect in this post to respond to.  Are you serious with this bolded?  New head coach that's changing the line mates almost on a nightly basis at the start of the season and that's on Jack for a slow start?  I mean, wow.   

Edited August 27, 2018 by 7+6=13

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Wow, this is not just a difference in opinion, you're just wrong.  I mean seriously man,  I'm not sure I'll ever be able to respect an actual hockey thing you say again because of how faulty your logic is here.  

I'll just pick one of the many things incorrect in this post to respond to.  Are you serious with this bolded?  New head coach that's changing the line mates almost on a nightly basis at the start of the season and that's on Jack for a slow start?  I mean, wow.   

He had 7 points in October. If that is considered fast, then I think we Sabres fans need to re-calibrate.

[LGR4GM]

43 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Why are you acting like Eichel didn't contribute to the Sabres' scoring woes, especially early in the season? I'm not sure how to read your last sentence. Are you denying that Jack got off to a slow start? OMG it's August and now I have to go look at game by game stats from last fall. #fml #likeomg

You have now changed the topic. You used what about after the original point was put in doubt, that we should look down on Eichel for finishing 29th (39th in your version) in PPG last season. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

48 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I'd say getting down to rounding to tenths of points and moving Eichel up in a group of tied players is "hoops."

Is it OK to want more?

Sure it is. What isn't okay is use his ppg ranking as the threshold/line.  It was an up year for scoring in the NHL. In converse the Sabres had a 2nd down year. What that means is hard to say. I think Eichel will be better this year but I have no doubt when he is, the credit will be placed at the feet of Skinner or Sheary as opposed to a combination. If Jack is better it will be because the team is better and he himself is better. 

30 minutes ago, SwampD said:

He had 7 points in October. If that is considered fast, then I think we Sabres fans need to re-calibrate.

No one was good enough in October. No one. Eichel wasn't and we should want better from him and everyone else. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

(I went by nhl.com.)

And that's a lot of hoops to jump through to make Jack look a little less disappointing. One thing to think about is that scoring went up last year in the NHL and Jack couldn't take advantage. Now, that might very well point to Housley.

There seems to be some excuse-making going on here. Some of you are waiting for the perfect scenario for Jack where he's surrounded by all this talent. Then he'll take off and lead the Sabres somewhere. In reality, he is the talent who's supposed to lead. It just hasn't happened yet, apparently because he's just not good enough to do so. No great criticism of Jack there, he'd have to be someone pretty special to do so. Maybe he's just going to be a very good player if the team is ever very good. No shame. The first three years will have been kind of a reality check.

Also, breaking down his season last year, it was the first two months that was the problem. He can't have that kind of slow start again. Because the team can't.

Now someone can tell me he didn't really have a slow start because the Sabres can't score goals and strength of opposition and Relative Mikko Makela on Sundays.

nhl.com......also has Jack at #37.

Jack did take advantage of up tick in scoring, his P/GP went up from the year before (.93--.96). And yet, Sidney Crosby dropped from 1.19 --1.09 so he must be starting his downslide. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
bad eyesight

[PASabreFan]

59 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Wow, this is not just a difference in opinion, you're just wrong.  I mean seriously man,  I'm not sure I'll ever be able to respect an actual hockey thing you say again because of how faulty your logic is here.  

I'll just pick one of the many things incorrect in this post to respond to.  Are you serious with this bolded?  New head coach that's changing the line mates almost on a nightly basis at the start of the season and that's on Jack for a slow start?  I mean, wow.   

Turns out he didn't have a slow start. So there's that. Also — I don't give two shits if you respect my opinion.

2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

nhl.com......also has Jack at #37.

Jack did take advantage of up tick in scoring, his P/PG went up from the year before (.93--.98). And yet, Sidney Crosby dropped from 1.19 --1.09 so he must be starting his downslide. 

Thanks. That's fair. But relative to other top offensive players, he didn't really take advantage. How else do you explain his production going up slightly and his PPG ranking dropping so much from the previous year?

[PASabreFan]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You have now changed the topic. You used what about after the original point was put in doubt, that we should look down on Eichel for finishing 29th (39th in your version) in PPG last season. 

I don't know what this means.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I don't know what this means.

You original were talking about Jack Eichel's ppg ranking. That was your original point. He was ranked 29th and you thought he should be higher. Now you are talking about Eichel contributing to the teams scoring woes in October and November. That's fine but they are separate arguments to consider. 

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

nhl.com......also has Jack at #37.

Jack did take advantage of up tick in scoring, his P/GP went up from the year before (.93--.98). And yet, Sidney Crosby dropped from 1.19 --1.09 so he must be starting his downslide. 

And I explained why. If people want to count the 7 players who played 2 games or less in the PPG rankings then go for it but that is silly. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Turns out he didn't have a slow start. So there's that. Also — I don't give two shits if you respect my opinion.

Thanks. That's fair. But relative to other top offensive players, he didn't really take advantage. How else do you explain his production going up slightly and his PPG ranking dropping so much from the previous year?

How does Crosby drop from 2nd to16th ....or Stamkos from 3rd to 14th??? Chit happens from year to year. Scheifele dropped from 9th to 31st.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And I explained why. If people want to count the 7 players who played 2 games or less in the PPG rankings then go for it but that is silly. 

I was pointing out to PA that his ranking was incorrect no matter what source he used.....and you're right, why argue over a couple spots in rank.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure it is. What isn't okay is use his ppg ranking as the threshold/line.  It was an up year for scoring in the NHL. In converse the Sabres had a 2nd down year. What that means is hard to say. I think Eichel will be better this year but I have no doubt when he is, the credit will be placed at the feet of Skinner or Sheary as opposed to a combination. If Jack is better it will be because the team is better and he himself is better. 

No one was good enough in October. No one. Eichel wasn't and we should want better from him and everyone else. 

Through the 1st 15 games (which includes 3 November games) there were exactly 5 players w/ more than 5 points.  Eichel (14), his 2 linemates (15 & 13 respectively), O'Reilly (12), & Pouliot (7) were the 5.

Clearly, the slow start was on Eichel. <_<

[PASabreFan]

31 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I was pointing out to PA that his ranking was incorrect no matter what source he used.....and you're right, why argue over a couple spots in rank.

I had looked it up a while back. I had 39 stuck in my head. Can you blame a Sabre fan for that? (But the more obvious answer is 39 made Eichel look worse than 37).

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

You original were talking about Jack Eichel's ppg ranking. That was your original point. He was ranked 29th and you thought he should be higher. Now you are talking about Eichel contributing to the teams scoring woes in October and November. That's fine but they are separate arguments to consider. 

I was trying to add context to Eichel's season. Maybe someone should figure out Eichel's ppg and league ranking from just before Christmas through the end.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I had looked it up a while back. I had 39 stuck in my head. Can you blame a Sabre fan for that? (But the more obvious answer is 39 made Eichel look worse than 37).

This whole thing is kind of dumb anyway.....but just for chits and giggles.....Jeff Skinner also dropped in rank from #43 to #161 and Conor Sheary dropped from #25 to #343. And these guys might be Jack's new linemates, LOL