Stanley Cup Finals: 2018 NHL Playoffs

[TrueBlueGED]

You're really reaching here. The Vegas player was fine, Drury was bleeding everywhere and had a concussion. Drury took a head shot

 

In no way are they on the same level

 

This kind of reasoning could get you a job in the NHL's DOPS. Doling out punishment based upon whether or not a player got injured is the worst IMO.

 

The hit on Drury was worse because it was higher, but as Smell said, they were quite similar. 

[WildCard]

This kind of reasoning could get you a job in the NHL's DOPS. Doling out punishment based upon whether or not a player got injured is the worst IMO.

 

The hit on Drury was worse because it was higher, but as Smell said, they were quite similar. 

The Drury hit was a head shot and targeted as such. The Wilson hit wasn't. That's why there was an injury, and the intent is a lot different

[TrueBlueGED]

The Drury hit was a head shot and targeted as such. The Wilson hit wasn't. That's why there was an injury, and the intent is a lot different

Do you think the only thing wrong with the hit on Drury is that it was to the head? If so, that's where our difference lies. I think the but to the head was only one thing among many that was wrong.

[That Aud Smell]

This kind of reasoning could get you a job in the NHL's DOPS. 

 

Lord have mercy.

 

The Drury hit was a head shot and targeted as such. The Wilson hit wasn't. That's why there was an injury, and the intent is a lot different

 

I do wonder: Did Wilson not make principal contact with the Vegas player's (can't spell it) head as a matter of intent or luck, or a combination of both? In that situation, I happen to think everyone involved was just fortunate that Wilson's shoulder didn't inadvertently ride up and knock the other player silly.

 

Because that's what tends to happen when you come in late, blindside, and on a vulnerable player.

 

OTOH, Neil did seem to make a last second effort to front on Drury and then drove up into his face.

 

Anyway: Terrible effing hits, both. One worse than the other.

 

 

Do you think the only thing wrong with the hit on Drury is that it was to the head? 

 

Aptly posed.

[WildCard]

Do you think the only thing wrong with the hit on Drury is that it was to the head? If so, that's where our difference lies. I think the but to the head was only one thing among many that was wrong.

I don't think it was the only wrong thing. I think it does make it a lot different though

[Doohickie]

My point was not that the Wilson hit was clean, it was that the refs had put their whistles away.  When you do that, this stuff happens.  If the refs did their job, they'd have called a crosscheck by Reaves before he scored the tying goal.  Let that stuff go the other team gets frustrated by a goal that shouldn't have been scored, and you get stuff like the Wilson hit.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Doohickie

[pi2000]

My point was not that the Wilson hit was clean, it was that the refs had put their whistles away. When you do that, this stuff happens. If the refs did their job, they'd have called a

. Let that stuff go the other team gets frustrated by a goal that shouldn't have been scored, and you get stuff like the Wilson hit.

15 years ago that's a clean hit. Marcchesault simply got caught admiring his pass and paid the price. That was hockey back then. Today, that's probably labelled a late blindside hit and is generally frowned up, if not penalized severely. Such is the modern NHL.

[inkman]

Maybe late to this, but what a POS Wilson is, man. That hit was just slightly less awful than Neil's on Drury. Garbage.

I found very little wrong with Wilson's hit. Maybe a little late and possibly checking from behind but nothing awful. Neil's hit was dirty in every way possible.

[SabresBillsFan]

15 years ago that's a clean hit. Marcchesault simply got caught admiring his pass and paid the price. That was hockey back then. Today, that's probably labelled a late blindside hit and is generally frowned up, if not penalized severely. Such is the modern NHL.

This is spot on

[That Aud Smell]

15 (20?) years ago players were said to have admired their passes, and then they might get their bells rung, too. (I realize there’s no reported concussion on this play.) I’m not pining to return to the days of Scott Stevens getting guys lined up in the trolley tracks, either. Onward we move, with due regard for player health and safety.

 

Late, blind side hits can leave the game and never come back, as far as I’m concerned. That goes the same for the varietals that end up relatively benign (as this one fortunately did, it appears) and those that end up badly.

[Neo]

^ I really like this post. Morning coffee, freshly brewed. My eyes jolt open and sweet slumber’s vanquished for another day. Still, I want another mug.

[SwampD]

15 (20?) years ago players were said to have admired their passes, and then they might get their bells rung, too. (I realize there’s no reported concussion on this play.) I’m not pining to return to the days of Scott Stevens getting guys lined up in the trolley tracks, either. Onward we move, with due regard for player health and safety.

 

Late, blind side hits can leave the game and never come back, as far as I’m concerned. That goes the same for the varietals that end up relatively benign (as this one fortunately did, it appears) and those that end up badly.

If every "late" blind side hit was as perfect as the one Wilson delivered, they would still be in the game.

[That Aud Smell]

If every "late" blind side hit was as perfect as the one Wilson delivered, they would still be in the game.

 

That's like the inverse of a blind squirrel finding a chestnut.

 

Late, blindside hits are, by their nature, reckless.  

 

How often do we hear about how fast the game moves (in both the NHL and NFL, actually) and how it's essentially impossible for a hitting player to calibrate the precise manner of contact so as to avoid head contact? Wilson was coming in with a sledgehammer, not a scalpel. The fact that he didn't hit the Vegas player's head is merely good fortune.

[WildCard]

That's like the inverse of a blind squirrel finding a chestnut.

 

Late, blindside hits are, by their nature, reckless.  

 

How often do we hear about how fast the game moves (in both the NHL and NFL, actually) and how it's essentially impossible for a hitting player to calibrate the precise manner of contact so as to avoid head contact? Wilson was coming in with a sledgehammer, not a scalpel. The fact that he didn't hit the Vegas player's head is merely good fortune.

Or the fact that he, you know, just didn't target it. It's not exactly surgical to not go after someone's head; in fact it's pretty much the exact opposite

[darksabre]

15 (20?) years ago players were said to have admired their passes, and then they might get their bells rung, too. (I realize there’s no reported concussion on this play.) I’m not pining to return to the days of Scott Stevens getting guys lined up in the trolley tracks, either. Onward we move, with due regard for player health and safety.

 

Late, blind side hits can leave the game and never come back, as far as I’m concerned. That goes the same for the varietals that end up relatively benign (as this one fortunately did, it appears) and those that end up badly.

The thing with a blindside hit is that it doesn't matter whether the target was the head, or if it was late, or if someone was actually hurt. Lining up a guy for a blindside hit is essentially the same as pointing a gun at someone. A blindside hit is automatically loaded with intent to injure. There's no other reason for it.

 

Wilson could have elected to simply skate hard at Marchessault to close the gap and put some pressure on him. And then he would have peeled off and reset, as it happens a hundred times a game.

 

But he didn't make that choice. The moment he turned to go after Marchessault it was obvious that he was coming in to blow him up. He was already too far behind the play. But that didn't matter. He saw the red mist.

[WildCard]

I found very little wrong with Wilson's hit. Maybe a little late and possibly checking from behind but nothing awful. Neil's hit was dirty in every way possible.

Thank you

[pi2000]

The thing with a blindside hit is that it doesn't matter whether the target was the head, or if it was late, or if someone was actually hurt. Lining up a guy for a blindside hit is essentially the same as pointing a gun at someone. A blindside hit is automatically loaded with intent to injure. There's no other reason for it.

 

Wilson could have elected to simply skate hard at Marchessault to close the gap and put some pressure on him. And then he would have peeled off and reset, as it happens a hundred times a game.

 

But he didn't make that choice. The moment he turned to go after Marchessault it was obvious that he was coming in to blow him up. He was already too far behind the play. But that didn't matter. He saw the red mist.

Back when I played competitively in the early to mid 90s, hitting was used as an intimidation tactic. Finish your check, put your man through the boards, because the next time he gets the puck he's going to be more worried about taking a hit than making the smart play.

 

USA hockey no longer teaches that. They stress that hitting is meant only for separating your man from the puck.

 

That said, what we've seen over the past 15-20 years is a shrinking of the hitting window after the puck has left the stick.

 

Generally, I'm ok with that, but hockey is a violent chaotic sport. You need to protect yourself out there. Just beacuse a check was hard doesn't mean it was illegal and should be removed from the game. A blinside hit is only blinside if the player doesn't have his head on a swivel, eyes up in the direction they're moving.

 

Marcchesault made a pass and drifted to the middle of the ice with his eyes still focused on the puck. Bad idea. I've been on the receiving end of many of those, and yeah it sucks, but had I turned and looked to middle of the ice instead of "admiring my pass" I would've seen the hit coming.

Edited May 30, 2018 by pi2000

[Doohickie]

Wilson could have elected to simply skate hard at Marchessault to close the gap and put some pressure on him. And then he would have peeled off and reset, as it happens a hundred times a game.

 

But he didn't make that choice.

And this is shortly after Reaves cross-checked his way to a goal.  I don't blame Wilson one bit for making that hit.  If the refs aren't calling penalties against the other team and it's hurting your team, you take matters into your own hands.

A blinside hit is only blinside if the player doesn't have his head on a swivel, eyes up in the direction they're moving.

 

Thus the remark about "admiring a pass."  Then again, that wouldn't have helped in the Wilson check which came in from the rear quarter.

[pi2000]

And this is shortly after Reaves cross-checked his way to a goal. I don't blame Wilson one bit for making that hit. If the refs aren't calling penalties against the other team and it's hurting your team, you take matters into your own hands.

 

 

Thus the remark about "admiring a pass." Then again, that wouldn't have helped in the Wilson check which came in from the rear quarter.

I disagree, if Marcchesault turned and looked to the middle of the ice ( which was the direction he was mving) he would've seen Wilson out of the corner of his eye for the last fraction of a second before the hit... which is enough time to take a defensive posture.

[That Aud Smell]

Or the fact that he, you know, just didn't target it. It's not exactly surgical to not go after someone's head; in fact it's pretty much the exact opposite

 

My point is that when you come in from that angle, the collision is as likely, if not more likely, to involve contact with the head (or a trauma to the head when it strikes the ice).

 

I suppose it's possible that Wilson made an effort to avoid contact with the head, and succeeded.

 

The thing with a blindside hit is that it doesn't matter whether the target was the head, or if it was late, or if someone was actually hurt. Lining up a guy for a blindside hit is essentially the same as pointing a gun at someone. A blindside hit is automatically loaded with intent to injure. There's no other reason for it.

 

This is the larger point. We don't need that hit in the game.

 

Back when I played competitively in the early to mid 90s, hitting was used as an intimidation tactic.

 

And, of course, it still can be used in that manner without permitting blindside smears.

 

 

A blinside hit is only blinside if the player doesn't have his head on a swivel, eyes up in the direction they're moving.

 

Marcchesault made a pass and drifted to the middle of the ice with his eyes still focused on the puck. Bad idea. I've been on the receiving end of many of those, and yeah it sucks, but had I turned and looked to middle of the ice instead of "admiring my pass" I would've seen the hit coming.

 

It's a fair assessment to say that the Vegas player was moving in a direction where his eyes were not focused. OTOH, the idea of "admiring a pass" seems antiquated. The phrase seems to suggest something that's self-satisfied, indulgent, maybe even lazy -- rather, than, y'know, tracking the movement of the puck in order to plan your next move toward a spot on the ice.

 

Also, the idea of your head being on a swivel always seemed to suggest, to me, that you need to have eyes in the back of your head, etc. I now understand the phrase to refer to the idea that you need to be moving your head (and eyes) constantly so as to focus on the direction in which you're headed. Interesting.

 

And I can see the point that's being made now, a bit better. I just don't have use for blindside hits in the game, I guess.

[kishoph]

I disagree, if Marcchesault turned and looked to the middle of the ice ( which was the direction he was mving) he would've seen Wilson out of the corner of his eye for the last fraction of a second before the hit... which is enough time to take a defensive posture.

Why would/should Marchessault look back to the center of the ice ? Marchessault's following the play which was on the boards, he shouldn't have to take his eyes off the puck to see where he's skating. 

[darksabre]

I disagree, if Marcchesault turned and looked to the middle of the ice ( which was the direction he was mving) he would've seen Wilson out of the corner of his eye for the last fraction of a second before the hit... which is enough time to take a defensive posture.

That's not the point though. Marchessault shouldn't have to be looking for Wilson. Wilson is a good skater with good reflexes and the skill to make good clean hits. He's more than capable of policing himself and not blind-siding a player. He just chose to do it anyway, because he's a scumbag. 

 

Those old cliches like "head on a swivel" and not "admiring passes" only go so far. They work just fine if the hits are on time and from clean angles. You get blown up on a clean hit for not paying attention? Fine.

 

But at some point the players doing the illegal sh*t need to not be doing it. 

[pi2000]

.08s late... not late enough to warrant any further discipline.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by pi2000

[That Aud Smell]

Why would/should Marchessault look back to the center of the ice ? Marchessault's following the play which was on the boards, he shouldn't have to take his eyes off the puck to see where he's skating. 

 

This is my view of the matter as well. I don't care for the principle or proposition that the game is characterized by traps for the unwary, such that if you make a nice pass and track its progress for a moment, you're apt to get blown up by someone approaching laterally. But I understand that this is how the game was commonly played, for a long time.

 

That's not the point though. Marchessault shouldn't have to be looking for Wilson. Wilson is a good skater with good reflexes and the skill to make good clean hits. He's more than capable of policing himself and not blind-siding a player. He just chose to do it anyway, because he's a scumbag. 

 

Those old cliches like "head on a swivel" and not "admiring passes" only go so far. They work just fine if the hits are on time and from clean angles. You get blown up on a clean hit for not paying attention? Fine.

 

But at some point the players doing the illegal sh*t need to not be doing it. 

 

And this, too. Wilson's track record informs an understanding of what's going on there.

 

Not for nothing: Liverpool lost the Champions League final last weekend in large part because human POS Sergio Ramos took down Mo Salah with a pretty clear intent to injure (an attempt that was successful). I effing hate Ramos, but recognize that winning teams often have players like that on their rosters.

.08s late... not late enough to warrant any further discipline.

 

I never wanted to get into the weeds on supplementary discipline. I'm more advocating for that sh1t to go away, generally.

[SwampD]

That's not the point though. Marchessault shouldn't have to be looking for Wilson. Wilson is a good skater with good reflexes and the skill to make good clean hits. He's more than capable of policing himself and not blind-siding a player. He just chose to do it anyway, because he's a scumbag. 

 

Those old cliches like "head on a swivel" and not "admiring passes" only go so far. They work just fine if the hits are on time and from clean angles. You get blown up on a clean hit for not paying attention? Fine.

 

But at some point the players doing the illegal sh*t need to not be doing it. 

Are blind side hits actually illegal, though?

 

I know late hits are. That hit may have been borderline late.

I know blind side hits where the principle point of contact is the head are illegal. That hit wasn't that.

 

I'm not sure there was anything wrong with that hit. I liked it and don't want it gone from the game. It drives me crazy that every big hit is now deemed illegal. Sometimes it's just a big hit. You don't like it? Go watch Olympic hockey or the WNHL.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SwampD