WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Chicken and egg argument. Players fault for sucking, or management's fault for choosing the sucky players? Who knows. It's really both. Terry isn't management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 how about bringing back in guys who are proven and can play to help now? It never hurts leaving guys in the minors a little longer then needed I really think Guhle could help now, and I've seen enough of Porter/Paetsch. Who is proven and can help now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 problem with GMTM was that the other GM didn't have a problem pulling the trigger cause in most cases they were getting more then they should have for what the were giving up. I was all for getting Kane, but they gave up way too much for a guy the Jets were actively looking to dump and the Sabres were one of the only teams that could give the Jets something that could help them that year while taking a player who would t be healthy til the next year. I had no problems using prospects or picks in the deal, and no problem with dealing Myers or Stafford. Too much was given up to a team you almost had over a barrel. They could have kept a few of those assetts in another deal. Giving up a 1st (even a late one) for a goalie coming off big concussion issues and not proving much before the injuries is also an overpayment. SENS needed to move someone Giving up a 1st for an average goaltender was by far the worst move GMTM made. Yeah, he overpaid for most of the moves he made. But, the opposite extreme was Darcy who wouldn't pull the trigger on any move. I have no delusions about this team magically getting better via trade. But, to get anyone who can make a difference we need to trade a "name" player like Samson or Risto. We've had a terrible team for years now. Jack is obviously the guy we'll build around. I like ROR too because he can play in all phases of the game and good 2-way centers are hard to find. Most other guys are expendable in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 This man came to the conclusion this summer that he needs to be more involved than he has been, no? He didn't want to own any of the mess he helped create, so he denied having any significant input into Murray and Bylsma. It was a lie. Maybe he was embarrassed. But he owns everything from that day forward. There's no deleting it from the media guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 It’s a difficult situation . It is not possible to trade players who are not playing well and get fair value. Some at this point may need sit and watch and ponder their careers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Terry isn't management He was pretty clearly Darcy's co-GM. And he was dumb enough to brag about it. After that, who knows? I suspect he's focusing his incredible sports intellect on his real big fish, the Bills. That's good news for the Sabres. Or should be. Giving up a 1st for an average goaltender was by far the worst move GMTM made. Yeah, he overpaid for most of the moves he made. But, the opposite extreme was Darcy who wouldn't pull the trigger on any move. I have no delusions about this team magically getting better via trade. But, to get anyone who can make a difference we need to trade a "name" player like Samson or Risto. We've had a terrible team for years now. Jack is obviously the guy we'll build around. I like ROR too because he can play in all phases of the game and good 2-way centers are hard to find. Most other guys are expendable in my book. My gut says other GMs will chuckle at the idea that these guys are "names." Also, they'll smell blood in the water fo sho. Edited October 21, 2017 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Again: this is why you don't tank. When you bottom out, you usually stay at the bottom. Now we're looking at yet another year in the wilderness. I still think it's fairly likely that as the season progresses there will be real reasons for hope, but there's also a real likelihood that we're looking at another bottom-3 finish. What a freaking debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 It's not Terry's fault. It's the players' You guys are missing my point: he rolled the dice on a tank and he lost. Like most teams do. Five years of horrible hockey and no payoff. Sure we got Jack. Enjoying that? This was a logical consequence of the tank and Terry was responsible for the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Giving up a 1st for an average goaltender was by far the worst move GMTM made. Yeah, he overpaid for most of the moves he made. But, the opposite extreme was Darcy who wouldn't pull the trigger on any move. I have no delusions about this team magically getting better via trade. But, to get anyone who can make a difference we need to trade a "name" player like Samson or Risto. We've had a terrible team for years now. Jack is obviously the guy we'll build around. I like ROR too because he can play in all phases of the game and good 2-way centers are hard to find. Most other guys are expendable in my book.i dont disagree, but i think where Darcy was hesitant to pull the trigger without being a clear winner, TM was the exact opposite where he would get too excited to get a guy he liked that he didn't care about the cost. Basically, DR would be the guy in the dealership haggling for hours to get the undercoating and tinting thrown in for free on a new car after walking away from other dealerships that wouldn't do it. TM would be the guy walking onto the dealership offering them more the the sticker price for a car he wanted just so he can get that exact one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 You guys are missing my point: he rolled the dice on a tank and he lost. Like most teams do. Five years of horrible hockey and no payoff. Sure we got Jack. Enjoying that? This was a logical consequence of the tank and Terry was responsible for the tank. It was not the logical consequence of a tank. Look at Toronto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 He didn't want to own any of the mess he helped create, so he denied having any significant input into Murray and Bylsma. It was a lie. Maybe he was embarrassed. But he owns everything from that day forward. There's no deleting it from the media guide. How do you know this? (Hint: you don't.) And where is the big surprise you promised us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Again: this is why you don't tank. When you bottom out, you usually stay at the bottom. Now we're looking at yet another year in the wilderness. I still think it's fairly likely that as the season progresses there will be real reasons for hope, but there's also a real likelihood that we're looking at another bottom-3 finish. What a freaking debacle. Again, look at Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Again: this is why you don't tank. When you bottom out, you usually stay at the bottom. Now we're looking at yet another year in the wilderness. I still think it's fairly likely that as the season progresses there will be real reasons for hope, but there's also a real likelihood that we're looking at another bottom-3 finish. What a freaking debacle. This is so far beyond the realm of the tank. This is about depth too. About scouting and drafting and development, something this team hasn't managed to do since the guys it drafted in like...2000. We've developed so little talent that we've been looking elsewhere for help for what feels like a decade. Look at our depth right now. Who is ready? Who is coming? And when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 how about bringing back in guys who are proven and can play to help now? It never hurts leaving guys in the minors a little longer then needed Yeah like ROR and Okposo amd Poulliot and Moulson. Proven. that .. we need more speed and hunger. Bring on the youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Toronto appears to be the exception of tanks, not the norm. The fact that Terry signed off on it in the first place might indicate how bad of an idea it was. I wish we hadn't done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 This is so far beyond the realm of the tank. This is about depth too. About scouting and drafting and development, something this team hasn't managed to do since the guys it drafted in like...2000. We've developed so little talent that we've been looking elsewhere for help for what feels like a decade. Look at our depth right now. Who is ready? Who is coming? And when? A-la we're Edmonton before McDavid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 You guys are missing my point: he rolled the dice on a tank and he lost. Like most teams do. Five years of horrible hockey and no payoff. Sure we got Jack. Enjoying that? This was a logical consequence of the tank and Terry was responsible for the tank. o said from the start that tanking was not the way to go, but everyone kept saying it had to be done to get his team over the hump and build a winner like Pittsburgh or Chicago. You can only get the best players by being the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Toronto appears to be the exception of tanks, not the norm. The fact that Terry signed off on it in the first place might indicate how bad of an idea it was. I wish we hadn't done it. It did it's sole purpose of acquiring elite talent. Everything else is not because of the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Very disappointed. Their passing and pick possession is horrible. They very rarely win puck battles. Whether or not fans admit it, this team is in serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Again: this is why you don't tank. When you bottom out, you usually stay at the bottom. Now we're looking at yet another year in the wilderness. I still think it's fairly likely that as the season progresses there will be real reasons for hope, but there's also a real likelihood that we're looking at another bottom-3 finish. What a freaking debacle. I remember a select few of us being anti-tank around here (you, D4rk, a few others). This site was petty grim back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Again, look at Toronto. They tanked the right way. Brought in the right people from the top down first. Buffalo is trying to bring them in from the bottom up. They got Jack, but had no one in place upstairs to know wtf to do after that......and apparently still don't. Although I will still give them some time to right the ship, I will not give them my money while I'm waiting. Edited October 21, 2017 by Claude Balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Toronto was in the wilderness for 11 freaking years AND they won the lottery AND it was in a year in which a great player was available AND they landed the best coach in the last generation. That is not a #blueprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 And if we got McDavid this whole conversation would be useless. It is even without him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Yeah like ROR and Okposo amd Poulliot and Moulson. Proven. ###### that .. we need more speed and hunger. Bring on the youth.this team doesn't need more unknowns with potential. They have plenty of that. They need guys who can come in and be upgrades now. No more picks and prospects. For every name you listed, you can prob a my name 2 young players/prospects that had potential and did nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 They tanked the right way. Brought in the right people from the top down first. Buffalo is trying to bring them in from the bottom up. They got Jack, but had no one in place upstairs to know wtf to do after that......and apparently still don't. Although I will still them some time, but not my money while I'm waiting for them to figure it out. Tanked the right way? They got won their lottery and got the best coach in hockey Toronto was in the wilderness for 11 freaking years AND they won the lottery AND it was in a year in which a great player was available AND they landed the best coach in the last generation. That is not a #blueprint. AND tanking gives you the best chance at winning the lottery AND McDavid was available AND landing the coach has nothing to do with tanking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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