Trade Sam or the 1st pick for Elusive Stud Defenceman?

[Sabre fan]

I see where WGR550 have evaluated Sam Reinhart's 1st two seasons and clearly are not impressed by his totals and more importantly attitude towards the game in year two. We used the 2nd overall pick to draft Sam and obviously expect BIG things. Maybe a new coach will do wonders and he will return to form he showed in the first year which most importantly means a change of attitude.

 

Meanwhile, the most rpessing question at this  point is how do we get a stud defenceman to go with Risto? I do think Guhle will be a special player soon, but in the meantime we need a clear #2 guy. We also of course could/can trade our pick at the amateur draft and maybe that could fetch us something good from say Anaheim. I am also for trading kane IF we will not re-sign him. If we have plans or thoughts to re-sign Kane then I woulds rather keep him over Sam because plain and simply, Kane knows how to score and does it very well. he was obviously our leading goal scorer this past season, even though he missed a chunk of games.

 

This is not a easy decision and will be vital in the team moving forward. The Oilers gave Hall but Larrson has changed the whole dynamic of that team, and I feel a new defenceman could do the same for us (like maybe Fowler etc).

 

Having said that, is there any area more important then deciding which way to go towards acquiring that defenceman we all know we so desperately need? By this, I mean of course once a new GM is hired...

[Thorny]

I don't believe Sam had a down year in his second season. I would much rather trade the pick than Sam, as trading Sam sets the rebuild back further.

 

Sam is a playmaker, and greatly improved his assist total this season, while being drastically misused. I don't at all understand the sentiment of disappointment that seems to be so prevelant with the guy.

 

I always hear the "not productive enough for a second overall pick" meme, but I think it would do well to take a look back at 2nd overall picks of the last decade or so and see how they've done. Some seem to be clouded by recent 2nd overalls that have been instant stars (Eichel, Laine), which isn't really the norm.

 

Keep Sam Reinhart.

[I-90 W]

1st pick yeah sure, Sam absolutely not. Dmen take a while to develop so trading away our first pick (Liljegren)/ Makar/ Heiskanen/ Valimaki) for an already established top 4 dman and another prospect would be fine. Why are so many people talking about trading Sam? It's not as if there is no other way to acquire a dman? Are there no top dmen that are going to be UFA this year?

[TrueBlueGED]

If we trade Reinhart for the 2017 equivalent of Adam Larsson, I'll lose my mind. Reinhart, playing out of position in a system, was still one of our top-3 forwards at even strength by all the meaningful metrics. I'd probably get over a trade for someone like Hanifin, but if it's for a Brodin type, I'll snap.

[I-90 W]

I don't believe Sam had a down year in his second season. I would much rather trade the pick than Sam, as trading Sam sets the rebuild back further.

 

Sam is a playmaker, and greatly improved his assist total this season, while being drastically misused. I don't at all understand the sentiment of disappointment that seems to be so prevelant with the guy.

 

I always hear the "not productive enough for a second overall pick" meme, but I think it would do well to take a look back at 2nd overall picks of the last decade or so and see how they've done. Some seem to be clouded by recent 2nd overalls that have been instant stars (Eichel, Laine), which isn't really the norm.

 

Keep Sam Reinhart.

 

Exactly. Also let us not forget that he is a natural center, playing on a team with Eichel and ROR. Unbelievable how expendable some people seem to think he is. 

If we trade Reinhart for the 2017 equivalent of Adam Larsson, I'll lose my mind. Reinhart, playing out of position in a ###### system, was still one of our top-3 forwards at even strength by all the meaningful metrics. I'd probably get over a trade for someone like Hanifin, but if it's for a Brodin type, I'll snap.

 

Yes precisely. When he becomes our #2 center someday and ROR goes to wing Sam's numbers will be even better.

[LGR4GM]

If we trade Reinhart for the 2017 equivalent of Adam Larsson, I'll lose my mind. Reinhart, playing out of position in a ###### system, was still one of our top-3 forwards at even strength by all the meaningful metrics. I'd probably get over a trade for someone like Hanifin, but if it's for a Brodin type, I'll snap.

I agree. I think Sam was fine... and he did improve but can be better. He needs to center someone like Kane and Okposo and he'll be an assist machine.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Neither.  

 

I should explain.

 

I don't see either of them alone would get a stud dman in return, that's pretty obvious.  So, we are really talking one, or the other, +++.

 

Samson should be a centre and I am not willing to trade him until we at least try him there.  If he is not a great centre then put him back on wing.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Sabres Fan In NS

[That Aud Smell]

It occurs to me: One of the best things about parting ways with Bylsma is that we'll get a fair shot at seeing Reinhart play centre.

 

Like True, I can abide the idea of trading Reinhart, but only if he brings a like-value young D-man in return.

[dudacek]

One of the first things I want to hear from the new brain trust is:

"Sam Reinhart will be a Sabre, he will be a centre, and I will surprised if he is not a very good one."

 

Sam has not been Laine or Draisaitl. And definitely not Matthews, Eichel or McDavid.

Don't let that overshadow what he has done:

 

First two seasons:

Reinhart 90 points

Barkov 60

Monahan 96

Drouin 42

Galchenyuk 58

Nugent-Hopkins 74

Huberdeau 59

Hall 95

Seguin 89

Johansen 33

 

Don't go to sleep on Sam.

He was playing out of position in a system poorly matched to his skill set.

[Thorny]

One of the first things I want to hear from the new brain trust is:

"Sam Reinhart will be a Sabre, he will be a centre, and I will surprised if he is not a very good one."

Sam has not been Laine or Draisaitl. And definitely not Matthews, Eichel or McDavid.

Don't let that overshadow what he has done:

First two seasons:

Reinhart 90 points

Barkov 60

Monahan 96

Drouin 42

Galchenyuk 58

Nugent-Hopkins 74

Huberdeau 59

Hall 95

Seguin 89

Johansen 33

Don't go to sleep on Sam.

He was playing out of position in a system poorly matched to his skill set.

Combined with the fact that even when he's at his best, he's not the type of player to show a lot of flash, or jump off the screen at you. His middle name is going to have to be changed to "Underrated" before all is said and done.

 

Let's just hope it's not our management team that underrates him.

[kas23]

I just don't see our new GM making any big splashes his 1st year. If he does, it's he likely has strong preconceived notions, like shipping out Kane. Unless there are more meetings Sam was late to...

[pi2000]

Trading Sam or 1st round pick as part of a package for a dman would be a panic move IMO.    They have all summer to work something out, draft BPA and use him as a key piece if needed, no need to rush.    

[Norcal]

NFW

[Tondas]

It occurs to me: One of the best things about parting ways with Bylsma is that we'll get a fair shot at seeing Reinhart play centre.

 

Like True, I can abide the idea of trading Reinhart, but only if he brings a like-value young D-man in return.

 

This ^^.  And I'm ready to do it now. 

 

I dont think Sam's skating will ever be elite and is just average for the NHL.  He makes up for it with his IQ.  I say we trade for a D-Man before we find out if he is the real deal.  If we wait and he is not, all we will have to show for it is a mis-placed 3rd line RW.  I think the value in Sam is his upside uncertainty and the next GM will find another GM that will bite.  The hated coach in New England does this all the time.  People say WTF??? and then it turns out to be the smart move.  The risk isn't trading him, the risk is keeping him.  We're good down the middle with ROR and Jack (and Larsson/Pu/Girgs). 

[3putt]

Nope. Keep all your assets. You won't get anything remotely equal in value. Someone will pop loose. He won't be a top four. Teams don't give those up.

[I-90 W]

This ^^. And I'm ready to do it now.

 

I dont think Sam's skating will ever be elite and is just average for the NHL. He makes up for it with his IQ. I say we trade for a D-Man before we find out if he is the real deal. If we wait and he is not, all we will have to show for it is a mis-placed 3rd line RW. I think the value in Sam is his upside uncertainty and the next GM will find another GM that will bite. The hated coach in New England does this all the time. People say WTF??? and then it turns out to be the smart move. The risk isn't trading him, the risk is keeping him. We're good down the middle with ROR and Jack (and Larsson/Pu/Girgs).

Two seasons and he has 40 goals/ 90 points so far in his career. Hes a natural center playing as a winger. Sam is the real deal.

[Tondas]

Two seasons and he has 40 goals/ 90 points so far in his career. Hes a natural center playing as a winger. Sam is the real deal.

 

You feel the same way as many GM's do.  That's my point and why we should trade him for a stud D-Man now.  We need a 1-3 D-Man more than we need Sam.

[I-90 W]

You feel the same way as many GM's do. That's my point and why we should trade him for a stud D-Man now. We need a 1-3 D-Man more than we need Sam.

Is there a reason why we can't have both? We're already dumping some dead weight this off season, calling up a few players hopefully and getting a new GM and HC.

 

Getting rid of Sam is almost as silly as getting rid of Jack imo. There are other ways to improve our blue line.

[Tondas]

Is there a reason why we can't have both? We're already dumping some dead weight this off season, calling up a few players hopefully and getting a new GM and HC.

 

Getting rid of Sam is almost as silly as getting rid of Jack imo. There are other ways to improve our blue line.

 

Not as quickly as a trade.  Hopefully, Guhle is the real deal.  That leaves us with Risto, Guhle and McCabe.  Need another stud now to go along with Bogo and Gorges as 5 & 6.

[GASabresIUFAN]

One of the first things I want to hear from the new brain trust is:

"Sam Reinhart will be a Sabre, he will be a centre, and I will surprised if he is not a very good one."

Sam has not been Laine or Draisaitl. And definitely not Matthews, Eichel or McDavid.

Don't let that overshadow what he has done:

First two seasons:

Reinhart 90 points

Barkov 60

Monahan 96

Drouin 42

Galchenyuk 58

Nugent-Hopkins 74

Huberdeau 59

Hall 95

Seguin 89

Johansen 33

Don't go to sleep on Sam.

He was playing out of position in a system poorly matched to his skill set.

I couldn't agree more. The WGR is complete garbage. http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/sam-reinhart-living-his-draft-status.

 

If you are going to compare the forwards, show me their averages over their first 2 seasons and then their careers.

[I-90 W]

Not as quickly as a trade. Hopefully, Guhle is the real deal. That leaves us with Risto, Guhle and McCabe. Need another stud now to go along with Bogo and Gorges as 5 & 6.

I agree that a trade is the fastest way but not nesecarrily the only way. There will be some (admittedly not alot) UFA dmen this summer. Even if we have to trade we don't have to trade Sam. Much rather see Kane go seeing that he hasn't led anyone to believe he wants to be here long term.

[JJFIVEOH]

He's 21, no conclusion on his production, or his potential, should be drawn at this point. 

[Tondas]

I agree that a trade is the fastest way but not nesecarrily the only way. There will be some (admittedly not alot) UFA dmen this summer. Even if we have to trade we don't have to trade Sam. Much rather see Kane go seeing that he hasn't led anyone to believe he wants to be here long term.

 

Now I'll drink to that, Saratoga! :beer:

[dudacek]

I couldn't agree more. The WGR is complete garbage. http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/sam-reinhart-living-his-draft-status.

If you are going to compare the forwards, show me their averages over their first 2 seasons and then their careers.

I'm starting to think that Sam and Jack have shown Paul some pushback in response to his agenda-driven lines of questioning. Wouldn't surprise me if he's also overhead one or both of them mocking him in the way 20-year-old jocks might be prone to mocking a portly, middle-age windbag.

 

It's fed his agenda all season and if he doesn't watch out it's going to bite him hard.

The Pegulas are keeping WGR afloat. Paul could not only find himself frozen out of the dressing room, but also on the receiving end of some censure from his frightened bosses after an angry call from PSE, or a type A new coach or GM.

Edited April 25, 2017 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

I couldn't agree more. The WGR is complete garbage. http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/sam-reinhart-living-his-draft-status.

 

If you are going to compare the forwards, show me their averages over their first 2 seasons and then their careers.

That wgr article is garage. It about his goals dropping then casually mentions he had way more assists and more points this year. Absolute garbage article.

 

Give me Reinhart at center with a real coach for 2 years. I'm not trading him fit anything short of Hanifin +