OT: Happy Independence Day!

[North Buffalo]

Ya gotta admit, there's something at least mildly amusing about a conservative being upset by language and liberals telling him to lighten up, they're just funny words. Talk about total role reversal.

Somewhere, CV is muttering to himself "why don't they just read the book."

Sigh tis the silly season and only gets worse until Nov 2, can't wait till hockey season so I can tune in, turn on, and drop out...

You

Edited July 5, 2016 by North Buffalo

[Ogre]

I don't know that it necessarily needs to be a conservative vs liberal thing. I consider myself a liberal mind and also find abuse of flag etiquette and colorful nicknames for our country a bit offensive. I would never call anyone out personally for it as I feel we are all free to think what we will.

My second generation American father volunteered for service in Vietnam. He was extremely proud of his nationality. A trait instilled in him by his father(who was proud to be in this country). He paid the price for it though with a nasty leg wound and what they now call PTSD. Us kids knew it by another name. His selfless service really struck a chord in me as a youngun. It honestly clicked in my head the sacrifices of previous generations. 200 hundred years of sacrifice.

Again. If I am offended by any of this I keep it to myself and remain grateful to be who I am where I am. Plain old iT in the fantastic USA.

Edited July 5, 2016 by iTInSn

[Randall Flagg]

What even is 'Murica? I don't understand why it's said, but I do notice that the people I see saying it are generally very patriotic and very much interested in respecting the flag and country and all that.

[ubkev]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murica

 

These definitions and examples pretty much cover it.

[GoPre]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murica

 

These definitions and examples pretty much cover it.

 

Whenever I hear 'Murica I immediately think redneck. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by GoPre

[PASabreFan]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=murica

 

These definitions and examples pretty much cover it.

Hold onto your hats! ginger pube is trending on that site. I knew Eichel couldn't stay off Snapchat.

[Drunkard]

What even is 'Murica? I don't understand why it's said, but I do notice that the people I see saying it are generally very patriotic and very much interested in respecting the flag and country and all that.

 

Just type Murica into google image search and try not to laugh too loud at work.

[Claude_Verret]

Ya gotta admit, there's something at least mildly amusing about a conservative being upset by language and liberals telling him to lighten up, they're just funny words. Talk about total role reversal.

 

Somewhere, CV is muttering to himself "why don't they just read the book."

 

Absolutely.  The back and forth here aligns quite well with Haidts moral foundation theory, the sanctity/degradation foundation is one that conservatives are highly attuned to and liberals not so much.

 

http://religionandpolitics.org/2012/05/31/what-psychology-teaches-us-about-moral-and-political-divides/

 

Here's an example from the book about cutting up the American flag.

 

Fascinatingly, even when these vignettes are carefully and artfully written to avoid any victimization, subjects highly attuned to the concerns the experiment is designed to elicit (sanctity/degradation in the case of the above three, for example) will try to invent a victim. As Haidt writes:

 

I had trained my interviewers to correct people gently when they made claims that contradicted the text of the story. For example, if someone said, “It’s wrong to cut up the [American] flag because a neighbor might see her do it, and he might be offended,” the interviewer replied, “Well, it says here in the story that nobody saw her do it. So would you still say it was wrong for her to cut up her flag?” Yet even when subjects recognized that their victim claims were bogus, they refused to say that the act was OK. Instead, they kept searching for another victim. They said things like “I know it’s wrong, but I just can’t think of a reason why.” They seemed to be morally dumbfounded—rendered speechless by their inability to explain verbally what they knew intuitively.

 

This theme comes up over and over throughout the book: our moral rationalizations are window dressing. Haidt’s experiments, and reams of other psychological research, suggest that for the most part our moral ideas emerge from gut-level reactions, not carefully reasoned thought. But once we’ve had such a gut reaction, it wouldn’t do to simply throw up one’s hands and say, “I don’t know why I believe it, but it’s true” (as some of Haidt’s subjects were forced to do when they were starved of other options). Instead, we weave stories that back up our claims.

 

 

 

[...]

Claude_Verret, on 06 Jul 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:Claude_Verret, on 06 Jul 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:Claude_Verret, on 06 Jul 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Absolutely.  The back and forth here aligns quite well with Haidts moral foundation theory, the sanctity/degradation foundation is one that conservatives are highly attuned to and liberals not so much.

 

http://religionandpolitics.org/2012/05/31/what-psychology-teaches-us-about-moral-and-political-divides/

 

Here's an example from the book about cutting up the American flag.

 

I hope you and TBPhD aren't implying my reaction to "'Merica"/"'Murica" is gut-level and without reason. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr

[SwampD]

I hope you and TBPhD aren't implying my reaction to "'Merica"/"'Murica" is gut-level and without reason. 

Haven't you been listening? There is no reason any more, apparently. There is only using reason to validate gut feelings.

[Claude_Verret]

I hope you and TBPhD aren't implying my reaction to "'Merica"/"'Murica" is gut-level and without reason. 

 

 

It isn't without reason, but rather reasoning that serves your intuition.  I think there's some compelling research behind Haidt's moral foundation theory, but I'm not getting into it again.  Like TBPhd said, I'll just keep muttering "read the book" from the sidelines.

Haven't you been listening? There is no reason any more, apparently. There is only using reason to validate gut feelings.

 

Once again, you apparently have not been listening.

[SwampD]

It isn't without reason, but rather reasoning that serves your intuition.  I think there's some compelling research behind Haidt's moral foundation theory, but I'm not getting into it again.  Like TBPhd said, I'll just keep muttering "read the book" from the sidelines.

 

Once again, you apparently have not been listening.

That's what I just said.

[PASabreFan]

Mods, can we merge the Independence Day thread and the Vesey thread? Then I want to launch it into deep space, so at some point other life forms can see who we were and what we did.

[Claude_Verret]

That's what I just said.

 

There's plenty of reason independent of serving your intuition, just not so much when it comes to moral arguments. But don't take my word for it, the research papers are out there, published in well respected peer reviewed journals, so feel free to read and decide for yourself if there's anything to it instead of dismissing out of hand.

[SwampD]

There's plenty of reason independent of serving your intuition, just not so much when it comes to moral arguments. But don't take my word for it, the research papers are out there, published in well respected peer reviewed journals, so feel free to read and decide for yourself if there's anything to it instead of dismissing out of hand.

I will read it and have already been reading about it. I just thinks it's a little humorous that he thinks people don't already step out of their moral matrices (maybe often) because they haven't read his book yet (or in his words "taken the red pill). What an ego.

[qwksndmonster]

Mods, can we merge the Independence Day thread and the Vesey thread? Then I want to launch it into deep space, so at some point other life forms can see who we were and what we did.

I only like this idea if we're still alive and we're trying to keep other life forms away from us. If we're all dead, then send up Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Denzel Washington's filmography.

[Weave]

I hope you and TBPhD aren't implying my reaction to "'Merica"/"'Murica" is gut-level and without reason.

Why do you find "Murica" offensive?

[WildCard]

Mods, can we merge the Independence Day thread and the Vesey thread? Then I want to launch it into deep space, so at some point other life forms can see who we were and what we did.

Yeah, this is terrible.

I only like this idea if we're still alive and we're trying to keep other life forms away from us. If we're all dead, then send up Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Denzel Washington's filmography.

I'd send up Independence Day as a deterrent. And Team America

 

On a serious note, Sagan and others really did launch a golden disk containing some thousands of images they deemed most important in representing the human race. It's actually incredible to see which images made the cut

Edited July 6, 2016 by WildCard

[Claude_Verret]

I will read it and have already been reading about it. I just thinks it's a little humorous that he thinks people don't already step out of their moral matrices (maybe often) because they haven't read his book yet (or in his words "taken the red pill). What an ego.

His theories are by no means dogma, but to me it can lead us to a greater understanding of other points of view in contrast to the simplistic rhetoric that says there just must be something wrong with liberals/conservatives that dominates political discourse everywhere.

 

So yeah I think more people need to take the red pill.

[PASabreFan]

Yeah, this is ###### terrible.

I'd send up Independence Day as a deterrent. And Team America

 

On a serious note, Sagan and others really did launch a golden disk containing some thousands of images they deemed most important in representing the human race. It's actually incredible to see which images made the cut

Now I'm intrigued. I take it one can view these images on a gizmo?

I only like this idea if we're still alive and we're trying to keep other life forms away from us. If we're all dead, then send up Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Denzel Washington's filmography.

I like the cut of your jib.

[Randall Flagg]

Now I'm intrigued. I take it one can view these images on a gizmo?

 

The Voyager probe's record is one of my favorite things humans have ever done. The wiki page has good info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record

 

also: http://www.vox.com/2015/11/11/9702090/voyager-golden-record-pictures

[spndnchz]

Mods, can we merge the Independence Day thread and the Vesey thread? Then I want to launch it into deep space, so at some point other life forms can see who we were and what we did.

 

NO