Ristolainen Signed, 6yrs 5.4mil per

[pi2000]

The longer this drags on, the more likely we see a 2-3 year bridge deal... Which is probably what GMTM wants, and he likely already knows this is the likely outcome but he's probably waiting until the last minute to make that offer wth hopes he signs a cheaper per year 6 year deal.

Very likely outcome (though I'd expect more like $3.75-4 per) at this point. Tis a shame as I expect that to bite them hard on the next contract's AAV.

It will only cost more in a few years if he reaches elite level... Which I think he can reach if he has the monetary motivation to do so.

[bob_sauve28]

So is the biggest issue here the cap? Seems strange after throwing money around they would get stingy with Risto

[TrueBlueGED]

So is the biggest issue here the cap? Seems strange after throwing money around they would get stingy with Risto

Whether it's stingy depends on what the team's offer is. If the Peters report is accurate, that's being stingy. But if Murray is offering around Rielly/Jones money, that's proper valuation.

[pi2000]

So is the biggest issue here the cap? Seems strange after throwing money around they would get stingy with Risto

Biggest issue is they just don't know what they have yet. Is he Tyler Myers or Brian Campbell? He's only 21, just not a long enough resume yet.

[TrueBlueGED]

Biggest issue is they just don't know what they have yet. Is he Tyler Myers or Brian Campbell? He's only 21, just not a long enough resume yet.

Are you just in general against betting on progression, or is this specific to Risto?

[rakish]

So is the biggest issue here the cap? Seems strange after throwing money around they would get stingy with Risto

 

Exactly how I look at it

[pi2000]

Are you just in general against betting on progression, or is this specific to Risto?

If he had better advanced stats and +\- I would be more willing to give him a longer richer deal. I know I know, plus minus has no meaning and plays against good players all the time on a team. However, that doesn't make him a good player, all it does is raises question marks which makes me less inclined to offer him a rich contract. Let's see how he measures up on a good team before making such a big commitment.

[TrueBlueGED]

If he had better advanced stats and +\- I would be more willing to give him a longer richer deal. I know I know, plus minus has no meaning and plays against good players all the time on a ###### team. However, that doesn't make him a good player, all it does is raises question marks which makes me less inclined to offer him a rich contract. Let's see how he measures up on a good team before making such a big commitment.

Way to dance around my question :p

[WildCard]

If he had better advanced stats and +\- I would be more willing to give him a longer richer deal. I know I know, plus minus has no meaning and plays against good players all the time on a ###### team. However, that doesn't make him a good player, all it does is raises question marks which makes me less inclined to offer him a rich contract. Let's see how he measures up on a good team before making such a big commitment.

Would you build a team based off of +/-?

[pi2000]

Would you build a team based off of +/-?

No. But I'd look closely at that number when picking a #1 defenseman.

[inkman]

No. But I'd look closely at that number when picking a #1 defenseman.

Especially when he's been playing against the leagues best players on the worst NHL teams of all time

Edited October 2, 2016 by inkman

[GASabresIUFAN]

I hate to keep bringing up Tyler Myers and his terrible deal given my Regier. A 7 year deal @ 5.5 per season based on one good year and he was good on both ends of the ice. After that he regressed each of the next couple seasons in Buffalo. Admittedly not all his fault, but his work ethic and game suffered after getting the huge deal.

 

I'm very happy that GMTM is taking a more conservative line here. Risto's 41 pts were great but his second half was terrible on D and his pts evaporated despite the team generally playing much better hockey around him. As he regressed, Bogo's game improved and McCabe progressed significantly. GMTM is trying to avoid Reiger's mistakes and I don't blame him. I'll be happy to give Risto Norris caliber D money once he earns it.

[bob_sauve28]

What is the longest deal we can sign him to and still have his rights after the deal is up?

[rakish]

My guess is 4

 

Ristolainen will have 7 Accrued Seasons before his hits 27, so we don't have to worry about his birthday.

 

You get Accrued Seasons by being on the regular season roster for 40 games (Don't be confused by the 10 game threshold, that's something else). Ristolainen played 34 NHL games in 13/14, I'm rather confident that the Sabres didn't bring him up a week too early to burn his first Accrued Season. So at this time, he has 2 Accrued Seasons, leaving him with 5 remaining before UFA, minus 1 as the last year before UFA, gives you 4.

Edited October 2, 2016 by rakish

[Hoss]

It's 3

 

(He was on the roster his entire first year, Rakish, just played 34 games)

Edited October 2, 2016 by Hoss

[rakish]

You might be right, but he played 34 in the AHL, is playing in the AHL 'On the roster?'

[Hoss]

I blanked on Risto's rookie year and forgot he was in the A for a chunk. I don't know then. It'd take some research.

[Thorny]

I blanked on Risto's rookie year and forgot he was in the A for a chunk. I don't know then. It'd take some research.

I was under the impression he has 4 more RFA seasons left, like you said. So I'm still thinking max bridge is a 3 year deal.

[beerme1]

I am actually starting to get worried about this. It appears that we are very far apart and GMTM is holding firm and while I appreciate that, I want this to end.  

[pi2000]

I am actually starting to get worried about this. It appears that we are very far apart and GMTM is holding firm and while I appreciate that, I want this to end.

GMTM likely hasn't gotten to the point of offering a bridge deal yet. That's a last resort type of deal that would get done quickly a day before game 1. I'm not tge least bit worried about it.

 

In the meantime he's hoping he'll agree to a 5 or 6 year deal at $4.5mil.

[thewookie1]

GMTM likely hasn't gotten to the point of offering a bridge deal yet. That's a last resort type of deal that would get done quickly a day before game 1. I'm not tge least bit worried about it.

 

In the meantime he's hoping he'll agree to a 5 or 6 year deal at $4.5mil.

 

Then GMTM is a moron since 5/6 years literally gives us nothing in terms of safety. He could walk or gouge us.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Then GMTM is a moron since 5/6 years literally gives us nothing in terms of safety. He could walk or gouge us.

If Risto becomes a truly elite D, up there with Keith, Doughty and Karlsson, he'll get whenever the market rate is from us not to worry. However right now he isn't there and doesn't deserve and hasn't earned that kind of dough.

[Drunkard]

If Risto becomes a truly elite D, up there with Keith, Doughty and Karlsson, he'll get whenever the market rate is from us not to worry. However right now he isn't there and doesn't deserve and hasn't earned that kind of dough.

 

But if we lock him up now there's the opportunity to have a top notch defender for below market rates through his entire 20's. That's why I'm on board for 8 years and if they can't work that out I'd prefer 3.

 

The main question is would you rather overpay him now or overpay him later by having to resign him long term in his prime after a shorter contract now. Right now we have the funds because two of our best players are on ELC in Eichel and Reinhart. I'd rather overpay now and lock him up than possibly risk losing him when he's 25 or 26 or having to pony up big money then and risk over paying him when he's past his prime at the end of his long term deal (8 year deal signed at 26 would put him at 34 at the end of it).

[bob_sauve28]

But if we lock him up now there's the opportunity to have a top notch defender for below market rates through his entire 20's. That's why I'm on board for 8 years and if they can't work that out I'd prefer 3.

 

The main question is would you rather overpay him now or overpay him later by having to resign him long term in his prime after a shorter contract now. Right now we have the funds because two of our best players are on ELC in Eichel and Reinhart. I'd rather overpay now and lock him up than possibly risk losing him when he's 25 or 26 or having to pony up big money then and risk over paying him when he's past his prime at the end of his long term deal (8 year deal signed at 26 would put him at 34 at the end of it).

I like the way you think Drunkard! 

[pi2000]

Especially when he's been playing against the leagues best players on the worst NHL teams of all time

 

Risto's defensive play contributed to them being one of the worst NHL teams of all time.    He was 19,20 years old, most young defenseman will struggle in that situation.    That doesn't mean he's a good player or a bad player, it just makes it more difficult to evaluate him, which is why I would look elsewhere if building a team.

Then GMTM is a moron since 5/6 years literally gives us nothing in terms of safety. He could walk or gouge us.

 

...or agree to a reasonable extension before the deal expires... which is likely to happen if the team is winning and he's having success.   Hell, he's skating in camp without a contract!  Doesn't sound like the guy will bolt first chance he gets.

But if we lock him up now there's the opportunity to have a top notch defender for below market rates through his entire 20's. That's why I'm on board for 8 years and if they can't work that out I'd prefer 3.

 

The main question is would you rather overpay him now or overpay him later by having to resign him long term in his prime after a shorter contract now. Right now we have the funds because two of our best players are on ELC in Eichel and Reinhart. I'd rather overpay now and lock him up than possibly risk losing him when he's 25 or 26 or having to pony up big money then and risk over paying him when he's past his prime at the end of his long term deal (8 year deal signed at 26 would put him at 34 at the end of it).

 

..or overpay him now and overpay him later by giving him a lucrative contract he never lives up to.. he feels the pressure to the #1 guy and never gets there, sticking the Sabres with an 8 year untradeable contract for a minus player who struggles in his own end.

 

I'd rather hedge my bets by signing him to a reasonable 5-6 year deal, or a 3 year bridge.   Let's find out what type of player he develops into before committing a large % of the salary cap to him for the next decade.