OT - opinions of interaction with police

[Sabresince70]

If you all could help me with something.... I am curious to get opinions from people that 1.don't know me and are giving honest thoughts, not what they think I want to hear, and 2. people not associated with law enforcement in any way.

 

I know what goes through my mind when I approach a car on a traffic stop, or a couple that is arguing/fighting and neighbors have called and reported a "domestic", etc.... I am curious as to what the other side is thinking. Even what the caller is expecting. When/If you have been pulled over, and you know that you were speeding/ran a sign,whatever, what are you expecting from the officer? Do you think he is going to give you a ticket no matter the circumstances? Do you expect him to just give a warning? Do you consider that he may not have a choice?

 

If you have ever been involved in a domestic, either an involved party or a reporting person (neighbor/witness/etc...) what have you expected?

 

As I have gotten older, and have seen new and young officers (we recently hired one who views the world much differently than I) it has hit me that we teach fully from our POV as opposed to the publics. We certainly need to be taught to see things from a safety way (that quick movement to your jacket pocket because you just now realized that is where you left your wallet does send signals to us that you do not intend) but I think it would be helpful to have input from "the other side". 

 

Mods - feel free to get rid of this if you feel it is not appropriate, I don't intend for it to cause fighting or bad feelings and I know it is no way Sabre related, I just thought it was a good source of "unknown" friends that could help.  Thanks, Dan

[dEnnis the Menace]

If you all could help me with something.... I am curious to get opinions from people that 1.don't know me and are giving honest thoughts, not what they think I want to hear, and 2. people not associated with law enforcement in any way.

 

I know what goes through my mind when I approach a car on a traffic stop, or a couple that is arguing/fighting and neighbors have called and reported a "domestic", etc.... I am curious as to what the other side is thinking. Even what the caller is expecting. When/If you have been pulled over, and you know that you were speeding/ran a sign,whatever, what are you expecting from the officer? Do you think he is going to give you a ticket no matter the circumstances? Do you expect him to just give a warning? Do you consider that he may not have a choice?

 

If you have ever been involved in a domestic, either an involved party or a reporting person (neighbor/witness/etc...) what have you expected?

 

As I have gotten older, and have seen new and young officers (we recently hired one who views the world much differently than I) it has hit me that we teach fully from our POV as opposed to the publics. We certainly need to be taught to see things from a safety way (that quick movement to your jacket pocket because you just now realized that is where you left your wallet does send signals to us that you do not intend) but I think it would be helpful to have input from "the other side". 

 

Mods - feel free to get rid of this if you feel it is not appropriate, I don't intend for it to cause fighting or bad feelings and I know it is no way Sabre related, I just thought it was a good source of "unknown" friends that could help.  Thanks, Dan

 

Work is actually slow today, so I'll respond!

 

I've been pulled over a couple times.  I'm a firm believer in treating authority with respect.  I've always been respectful of the officer pulling me over.  honest with them, and up front.  I've gotten both speeding tickets reduced on the spot.  I don't go into it expecting to get out of the ticket.  In my opinion, I was in the wrong, I expect to face the consequences.  Then again, my parents pounded that into my head growing up that when you're wrong, you own it. I've known several officers over the years, and I try to make sure that i don't make any sudden movements or anything that may be misconstrued.  I want the police to help me if the time comes, and am a believer in karma in a way.   

[darksabre]

I think it's important for both parties to realize the other is probably nervous, regardless of outwards appearances. 

[Sabresince70]

It occurred to me I wasn't being fair by not giving at least a little of my view... so

 

When I pull a car over, let's say for speeding, I have choices (every dept. is different, though). If I am timing in a 25 MPH zone, by state law, I have to give 10 over to stop for speeding (state police only need 5). I give 15. So I will not pull someone over for less than 40. If you are going between 40 and 45, and you don't hit certain buttons when I get to the window (and all of your paperwork is good) it is a warning. If you are over 45 and don't , in my mind, have a good reason, you are getting a ticket. It may not be for the full 20 over, but you are getting something. I made this rule for myself shortly after I was hired, my chief has no problems with it, and I stick to it. Race, sex, nothing matters (only attitude). 

 

And yes, nervous. every time. I find myself going to the passenger's side more and more these days.

[MattPie]

Stage 1: Adrenaline. Heart thudding. Nervous, even over "minor" stuff like speeding (or most recently, an expired registration)

Stage 2: Prep, because I want to be respectful and as non-threatening as possible. Take my wallet out, get the registration out before the officer approaches and have them ready. If it's nice out, roll down all the windows and if it's dark, turn on all the interior lights. Shut off the car, of course.

Stage 3: When the officer approaches, make sure to keep things visible (head, hands, etc.) to make sure there's no mistaking my intentions.

Stage 4: Admit to whatever I did wrong. I'm not really going to fight the ticket; I was wrong, might as well suck it up.

Stage 5: Wish the officer good day, etc.

 

Now that's being said as a middle-aged white guy who is generally Lawful-Good. I give all that thought because in the back of mind I know these things can go bad, even though it's unlikely they will for me. I have a tough time imagining how I'd feel if I were non-white and had more chance (real or perceived) of being harassed by the police. (I'm not casting aspersions here, I think the data shows that minorities have more interaction with the police in general, and more bad interactions as well.)

[Weave]

If I am being pulled over, I expect I am getting a ticket.  Not because I think the officer is being a dick, but because if I am being pulled over, I expect that I've done something to warrant it.  The few times I've been pulled over and not given a ticket it has always felt like the cop that pulled me over was on a fishing expedition and I just happened to swim through.  

 

As a civilian, what I don't like is being followed.  Especially when the cruiser is following very closely.  I have spent plenty of time working off shifts and coming home late at night.  I just want to go home and not be bothered.  I can't count the number of times a cruiser has pulled out behind me and followed me for several miles, sometimes (often) way too closely, and then does a U-turn after I haven't swerved, veered, whatever to give him/her justification for pulling me over.  Frankly, it makes me much more nervous than I care to be on the road.  I'm concentrating on the cop behind me more than I'm concentrating on the road.  Counter-productive.

 

Every officer I've ever encountered in a traffic stop has been professional.  Not always polite.  But professional.  I don't assume that an officer is going to be polite if I've done something to warrant being pulled over.  I'm OK with that if I was in the wrong.  I'm not fond of the occasional intimidation that comes with a traffic stop (and I know some of it may be in my head).  Being someone who almost never has interactions with law enforcement, I guess I don't appreciate it when on the rare occasion I have one, I feel like I am being intimidated.  If my report is clean, and all I've done is go a bit too fast, you can lighten up a bit.   You probably know by then I'm not a bad guy.  I'm just a guy in a hurry.

 

I'm glad you've brought this up.  Social media has really publicized the negative incidents.  A few bad apples aside, it seems to me that the biggest issue that law enforcement has with the public is related to how you guys are trained to react to us.  I know full well that your priority is to go home.  Ours is too.  But we also don't want to be viewed as "them" (as in "us" and "them").  Even though we may speed once in awhile, or roll a stop sign, we're good guys too, and just want to be treated as such.

[qwksndmonster]

I've only had bad experiences with police.

 

I've never been arrested.  I've been driving for 5 years, and I've only gotten one ticket.  It was a speeding ticket for going 69 in a 55 (Friday night on 13 heading to Ithaca to see my girlfriend).  I was issued a 200 dollar ticket which I got reduced to 120 when I appealed in traffic court. The officer lectured me, but whatever, it was fine.

 

The other times I had run in with police:

 

About 8 months ago got stopped on a Saturday night at around midnight because the officer said I went over the white line (I didn't).  I was driving my Dad's BMW.  I suspect that this never would have happened if I was in my usual minivan.  He asked me why my hand was shaking and I told him that my hands have always been shaky.  He then asked me if I was nervous, which I said yes. He asked me if I had anything to drink, I said yes, a(one) Southern Tier IPA at 10. Then he had me come behind my car for a sobriety test.  He attempted to mislead me into saying that I had more than one drink three times.  ("You said you had a couple drinks tonight?")  He awkwardly sent me on my way afterwards.  I was infuriated by this.

 

Several times when I was in a band driving to or from a gig (car full of college age curly headed hipsters), we were stopped and rudely, aggressively questioned about where our drugs were (we had no drugs).  My friend even consented to a search one time.  The cop accused my friend of stealing from Hot Topc because his manager keys were in the glove box.  We had to wait until the cop called his store to get back into our car.  Friends of ours (in a different band) have had their equipment damaged after consenting to a search.

 

One time, my friend and I were parked in a parking lot next to Taco Bell eating our food (again, two curly headed college age hipsters).  A cop turned on his lights and siren and rolled up on us.  He asked me where I lived and left us embarrassed after seeing that we were eating.

 

When I was a kid I was in the car with my 16 year old brother.  He was a pipsqueak of a teenager and got pulled over on the street we live on for no reason (because he looked young).  2 officers came to his car.  After asking my brother if he knew why he had been stopped ("no?"), he awkwardly asked after a long pause if there was a reason why my brother didn't have a rear license plate.  Surprised, my brother got out of the car to inspect it with the 2 cops.  The other officer said "It's on. clearly on there."  My brother was super polite.  But once they were gone he raged.

 

When I see a cop, my stomach instantly drops.  I don't feel safer, I feel like this is a person with power over me who will do whatever he can to arrest me.

[shrader]

My only experience with being in a pulled over car came when I was much younger, so I don't really have a good perspective on this.  I do know from those cases though that you definitely reap what you sow.  Treat them with respect and that's what you'll get in return.  There was only one time where we got a lot of attitude from the cop, but we totally understood it.  My friend was speeding on the highway at night in a section that had the entire right lane blocked off with cones for future construction.  My friend had one of those "oh crap, you got me" reactions, but had no idea where to pull over.  He wound up driving for an extra mile or so until the cones were gone and immediately pulled over.  The officer right away wasn't happy about that, but my friend was very quick with the "sorry sir, I had no idea where to pull over" and his attitude changed fairly quickly.  I'm sure it didn't hurt that he could clearly see the goalie pads and hockey sticks in the back seat and knew right away where we were coming from.  I can't remember whether or not he wound up with a ticket, as I didn't particularly care too much since I wasn't the one at fault.

 

Honestly though, I think I would have done the same exact thing had I been driving.  I see those cones as a "stay the hell out of here" message and would have been just as confused.  The road was fairly deserted, so there wasn't any risk of accident.  What would the officer expect a driver to do in this situation?

[SDS]

I just got pulled over in Alden on Saturday driving by a school.

 

Expectations: I'm getting a ticket, but hope my stellar behavior gets it reduced to a warning.

 

While waiting for the officer to approach, I got my wallet out and my license and put my hands firmly on the wheel at 10 and 2. I don't move them. Officer asked if I knew how fast I was going. I said no, because I was slowing down because of the 15 MPH zone. He asks if I was aware of the 30 MPH zone prior to the 15 and then states I was going 47. Probably true. Asks for license and reg. My wife asks permission to go into the glove box to retrieve the reg.

 

He asks where I am going, where I am from, where I am staying and who is in the car with me. I answer all questions honestly about going to see family, etc...

 

Came back with a warning. Best case scenario.

[Sabresince70]

I've only had bad experiences with police.

 

I've never been arrested.  I've been driving for 5 years, and I've only gotten one ticket.  It was a speeding ticket for going 69 in a 55 (Friday night on 13 heading to Ithaca to see my girlfriend).  I was issued a 200 dollar ticket which I got reduced to 120 when I appealed in traffic court. The officer lectured me, but whatever, it was fine.

 

The other times I had run in with police:

 

About 8 months ago got stopped on a Saturday night at around midnight because the officer said I went over the white line (I didn't).  I was driving my Dad's BMW.  I suspect that this never would have happened if I was in my usual minivan.  He asked me why my hand was shaking and I told him that my hands have always been shaky.  He then asked me if I was nervous, which I said yes. He asked me if I had anything to drink, I said yes, a(one) Southern Tier IPA at 10. Then he had me come behind my car for a sobriety test.  He attempted to mislead me into saying that I had more than one drink three times.  ("You said you had a couple drinks tonight?")  He awkwardly sent me on my way afterwards.  I was infuriated by this.

 

Several times when I was in a band driving to or from a gig (car full of college age curly headed hipsters), we were stopped and rudely, aggressively questioned about where our drugs were (we had no drugs).  My friend even consented to a search one time.  The cop accused my friend of stealing from Hot Topc because his manager keys were in the glove box.  We had to wait until the cop called his store to get back into our car.  Friends of ours (in a different band) have had their equipment damaged after consenting to a search.

 

One time, my friend and I were parked in a parking lot next to Taco Bell eating our food (again, two curly headed college age hipsters).  A cop turned on his lights and siren and rolled up on us.  He asked me where I lived and left us embarrassed after seeing that we were eating.

 

When I was a kid I was in the car with my 16 year old brother.  He was a pipsqueak of a teenager and got pulled over on the street we live on for no reason (because he looked young).  2 officers came to his car.  After asking my brother if he knew why he had been stopped ("no?"), he awkwardly asked after a long pause if there was a reason why my brother didn't have a rear license plate.  Surprised, my brother got out of the car to inspect it with the 2 cops.  The other officer said "It's on. clearly on there."  My brother was super polite.  But once they were gone he raged.

 

When I see a cop, my stomach instantly drops.  I don't feel safer, I feel like this is a person with power over me who will do whatever he can to arrest me.

Wish there was a way to convince you there are good and bad in every job. I am sorry those things have happened to you. Best advice I was ever given at the academy (nearly 20 years ago) was treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Most of those I work with and know from other departments do this. The others make it harder for us...

[PromoTheRobot]

My only interaction with police has been at traffic stops.  I'm always calm and respectful.  I make sure I have license, registration and insurance cards at the ready and my hands are always visible. Nine times out of ten I get a warning. But I don't take for granted for a minute that I'm and older white man. My experience could be much different if I were young and black or hispanic.

Edited December 3, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[qwksndmonster]

Oh! Forgot one!  The Summer after my senior year of high school some friends and I went to the Bonnaroo music festival in Manchester, Tennessee.  The car we took had a bunch of bumper stickers.  Sublime, Grateful Dead, religious tolerance stuff, etc.  The girl driving the car when we got pulled over is not the brightest, but very nice.  The officer acted like it was for speeding even though there were two lanes on the highway to our left going faster than we were (I think we were going 77 in a 70).  After putting my poor friend on the spot he asked in his best manipulate-citizen-into-relinquishing-rights voice "You don't mind if I search your car, right?"  So of course she said no and we had to stand next to our car for 30 minutes while he went through all of our camping supplies and luggage.  He awkwardly said to us afterwards that he saw our tolerance bumper sticker and wondered if we were "tolerant" of anything else.

Wish there was a way to convince you there are good and bad in every job. I am sorry those things have happened to you. Best advice I was ever given at the academy (nearly 20 years ago) was treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Most of those I work with and know from other departments do this. The others make it harder for us...

I know a couple good cops.  But I can't really forgive any of them for willfully participating in a broken system.

[WildCard]

It's either great or it's terrible. 

[MattPie]

Honestly though, I think I would have done the same exact thing had I been driving.  I see those cones as a "stay the hell out of here" message and would have been just as confused.  The road was fairly deserted, so there wasn't any risk of accident.  What would the officer expect a driver to do in this situation?

 

I had a similar one, but on a fairly narrow but moderate traffic road. There's no way I could have gotten off the road enough to not block a lane, putting everyone at risk so I put the flashers on (to acknowledge the cop) and drove up less than a mile to parking area I knew was there. I like to think he appreciated that he didn't have to stand in traffic to talk to me; he didn't give me any trouble about not pulling over in any case. SS70, what would you prefer in that situation? I assume you make stops on those windy narrow roads up there often. Should the driver wait until there's somewhere safe for everyone or pull over immediately?

Edited December 3, 2015 by MattPie

[Wyldnwoody44]

I am wearing my scrubs and stethoscope approx 90% of my life, I even have medical plates on my cars so typically, I usually don't get hassled too much by cops, then again I don't try and push the rules too much. Sometimes on a rush to the hospital I'll get pulled over but if the officer is reasonable they see that I'm on my way to something serious and typically give me a pass, sometimes even escort me which is nice.

 

Typically in Street clothes I usually drop the whole hospital/doctor thing, which I feel bad about (but I hate tickets) and it works 95% of the time. But yeah when I was younger especially in a smaller town, cops were on power trips looking for stupid things.. Rolling stops, tint too dark, 31 in a 30,etc etc.

[shrader]

I had a similar one, but on a fairly narrow but moderate traffic road. There's no way I could have gotten off the road enough to not block a lane, putting everyone at risk so I put the flashers on (to acknowledge the cop) and drove up less than a mile to parking area I knew was there. I like to think he appreciated that he didn't have to stand in traffic to talk to me; he didn't give me any trouble about not pulling over in any case. SS70, what would you prefer in that situation? I assume you make stops on those windy narrow roads up there often. Should the driver wait until there's somewhere safe for everyone or pull over immediately?

 

We did the same, slowed down significantly and had the blinker on.

[TrueBlueGED]

Don't have time to go into details right now, but my only bad experiences have involved youth (either my own or the cop's). I suspect that cops tend to be more skeptical of younger kids, and I can't entirely blame them for that. As for younger cops, my experience with younger cops is they are very much about projecting their authority. I'm not comfortable generalizing that to most young cops, but my experience has very much been that way (only a few encounters, so yea, definitely not making a blanket statement here).

Edited December 3, 2015 by TrueBlueGED

[Sabresince70]

My only experience with being in a pulled over car came when I was much younger, so I don't really have a good perspective on this.  I do know from those cases though that you definitely reap what you sow.  Treat them with respect and that's what you'll get in return.  There was only one time where we got a lot of attitude from the cop, but we totally understood it.  My friend was speeding on the highway at night in a section that had the entire right lane blocked off with cones for future construction.  My friend had one of those "oh crap, you got me" reactions, but had no idea where to pull over.  He wound up driving for an extra mile or so until the cones were gone and immediately pulled over.  The officer right away wasn't happy about that, but my friend was very quick with the "sorry sir, I had no idea where to pull over" and his attitude changed fairly quickly.  I'm sure it didn't hurt that he could clearly see the goalie pads and hockey sticks in the back seat and knew right away where we were coming from.  I can't remember whether or not he wound up with a ticket, as I didn't particularly care too much since I wasn't the one at fault.

 

Honestly though, I think I would have done the same exact thing had I been driving.  I see those cones as a "stay the hell out of here" message and would have been just as confused.  The road was fairly deserted, so there wasn't any risk of accident.  What would the officer expect a driver to do in this situation?

without knowing the area, it would not be fair for me to say, "you should have..." It does sound as though the officer accepted you friend's explanation and reacted "sorry sir, I had no idea where to pull over" and his attitude changed fairly quickly, well.    After a mile, he may well have been calling for another car (we expect the worse at that point). Not making excuses, but his "not happy about" might have been his " I m expecting crap" attitude. 

[WildCard]

It's funny, the best experiences I've had are with younger cops. Every older cop I've met just treats me like I'm some moronic college student, young guys seem to treat me like a person

[TrueBlueGED]

It's funny, the best experiences I've had are with younger cops. Every older cop I've met just treats me like I'm some moronic college student , young guys seem to treat me like a person

Well, I mean.... :nana:

[WildCard]

Well, I mean.... :nana:

I've been lying, I don't even go to college

[Sabresince70]

I had a similar one, but on a fairly narrow but moderate traffic road. There's no way I could have gotten off the road enough to not block a lane, putting everyone at risk so I put the flashers on (to acknowledge the cop) and drove up less than a mile to parking area I knew was there. I like to think he appreciated that he didn't have to stand in traffic to talk to me; he didn't give me any trouble about not pulling over in any case. SS70, what would you prefer in that situation? I assume you make stops on those windy narrow roads up there often. Should the driver wait until there's somewhere safe for everyone or pull over immediately?

Wait until it is safe! I don't know if you are familiar with Alburtis, but we have very narrow roads. The flashers are a great idea. Atleast we know you see us. And slow down. If your speed remains the same (or worse increases) our reaction will be different! I would rather talk in a parking lot than in traffic.

It's funny, the best experiences I've had are with younger cops. Every older cop I've met just treats me like I'm some moronic college student, young guys seem to treat me like a person

This idea all started with our "new young" guy. He seems much more "hopeful" that each call will bring excitement. I am guessing the paperwork will slow him down. I have three daughters (two in college, one graduated last June) and I have a second job at a college (free tuition is a wonderful thing). I will not discuss my opinion on college.... :cry:

[MattPie]

I just looked up Alburtis, for some reason I thought it was up towards Allegheny. Seeing where it is, I've probably ridden through at some point going to a friends house in Macungie. I know I've ridden Mountain Rd. and even went had a burger at Snuzzle's.

 

If you ever pull over a guy on a silver BMW with an orange helmet, say hi!

[PASabreFan]

A number of years ago I had to call 911 for an ambulance for my dad. The next day I picked up the phone and accidentally hit the redial button. When 911 answered, I did the worst thing you can do. Hang up. Five minutes later an officer was knocking on the door. Despite my nervous, almost hilarious, "come on in, take a look around, I don't care" the words all running together, he just said have a nice day. I was surprised. I could have had multiple hostages.

 

More to the OP's interest, sometimes the office doesn't have a choice. I was driving a veteran home from a radiation treatment in Buffalo in my own car. He couldn't wear a seat belt because of the discomfort in his abdomen. We got pulled over in Ellicottville by an officer who must have had 20/5 vision to see it. Despite the explanation, my friend got a ticket. The problem was he didn't have a letter from a doctor stating he couldn't wear a belt. The officer was very respectful and almost apologetic. He was just doing his job. Unfortunately, the veteran never did have to pay the ticket, as he died a few months later.

[Sabresince70]

I just looked up Alburtis, for some reason I thought it was up towards Allegheny. Seeing where it is, I've probably ridden through at some point going to a friends house in Macungie. I know I've ridden Mountain Rd. and even went had a burger at Snuzzle's.

 

If you ever pull over a guy on a silver BMW with an orange helmet, say hi!

Macungie is our "sister". Each department (normally) has only one officer on at a time, so we are each other's back up. I spent more time in Macungie last weekend than in our Boro.  If you get pulled over  feel free to use "do you know Summy [sum-me] ? For nearly everyone in either department it should help. (Maybe not the chief in Macungie, but that is a long story).