JJFIVEOH Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Claude did. I largely agree even if I'm not convinced at all that we have the ability to properly vet these refugees. Why would ISIS need to bother with smuggling in terrorists disguised as refugees when it's much easier to just walk across our southern border. These are not refugees, but good work by the Hondurans to ID the fake passports. Right, refugees wouldn't be coming here with a motive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Right, refugees wouldn't be coming here with a motive. Sarcasm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hey guys, just wanted to add my two cents. There's a good huffpost article that may be of help to those who want to see if there is any proof that Islam and in particular, Muhammad would condemn this if he were alive today. There is overwhelming proof against this sort of behavior and I'd have to say what we are seeing is a clear example of the Hegelian dialect, i.e problem-reaction-solution. It is what moves along the geopolitical game. "Today the dialectic is active in every political issue that encourages taking sides. We can see it in environmentalists instigating conflicts against private property owners, in democrats against republicans, in greens against libertarians, in communists against socialists, in neo-cons against traditional conservatives, in community activists against individuals, in pro-choice versus pro-life, in Christians against Muslims, in isolationists versus interventionists, in peace activists against war hawks. No matter what the issue, the invisible dialectic aims to control both the conflict and the resolution of differences, and leads everyone involved into a new cycle of conflicts." http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm In terms of where can we find condemnation of this in Islam, I would just like to link the article and present some authentic sayings recorded from Muhammad. "At this time of dissension, he said there would appear "a group of young people who would be immature in thought and foolish." They would speak beautiful words but commit the most heinous of deeds. They would engage in so much prayer and fasting that the worship of the Muslims would appear insignificant in comparison. They would call people to the Quran but would have nothing to do with it in reality. The Quran would not go beyond their throats, meaning they wouldn't understand its essence at all, merely regurgitating it selectively. The Prophet then went on to describe these people as "the worst of the creation." As if this outline wasn't clear enough, another tradition in the book Kitaab Al Fitan reported by Caliph Ali, the fourth successor to Prophet Muhammad, describes these people as having long hair and bearing black flags. Their "hearts will be hard as iron," and they would be the companions of a State (Ashab ul Dawla). Interestingly, ISIS refers to itself as the Islamic State or Dawla. The tradition further mentions that they will break their covenants, not speak the truth and have names that mention their cities. The ISIS caliph, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, comes to mind. Prophet Muhammad furiously and painfully described these evildoers, and admonished Muslims to beware of their evil and fight it. "Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them," he proclaimed. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7702064 Anyways, we are all susceptible to emotional reactions but we're going to have to try real hard to retain and build upon our critical thinking capabilities and band together against tyranny of any kind! And just as side note, I know I haven't posted in forever but I am around and am watching allllllll the games with my free Rogers NHL gamecenter live app and it's amazing!!!!! My quality of life has improved tremendously since chromecast and live streaming! Nice post! You referenced the Hegelian dialect, so I'm guessing you are no welder! Philosophy is not my cup of tea (but I'm not a welder either), but the Hegelian dialect really is a beautiful idea. It seems to be a very powerful force in how damn near everything happens. I learned it as thesis / antithesis / synthesis where synthesis eventually degrades into thesis, or status quo or stagnation, so the cycle never ends. The more I look and listen to France, post attack, the more I see them installing a US type response to 9/11 including their own version of the Patriot Act.Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Those geniouses probably don't realise that jesus is mentioned alot in the Quran, probably don't even know how to read. I said it before, these are criminals whom travelled so Syria, put themselves outside of normal society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Interesting short read. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-defector-explained-key-reason-180356055.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Interesting short read. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-defector-explained-key-reason-180356055.html Grateful ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Interesting short read. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-defector-explained-key-reason-180356055.html I heard something similar yesterday. I'm glad this information is making its way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 That would make them mercenaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 That would make them mercenaries. Are 18 yr old American men who join the military because they have no other good options mercenaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastajoe Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Are 18 yr old American men who join the military because they have no other good options mercenaries? Many do join because they don't have good options, but once they join they're under the command of the President and our military laws for the duration of their service. Mercenaries are like free agents that take temporary jobs with the highest bidders, and whose actions are sometimes outside the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Many do join because they don't have good options, but once they join they're under the command of the President and our military laws for the duration of their service. Mercenaries are like free agents that take temporary jobs with the highest bidders, and whose actions are sometimes outside the law. What is different is the organization they joined, not the motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastajoe Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 What is different is the organization they joined, not the motivation. I repectfully disagree. I believe the vast majority who join the American military as the best option also have a sense of patriotism and believe in our laws, and want to remain respected within our country by showing their loyalty to our country and laws. Mercenaries have no loyalty to one country or laws and will often do anything for the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't doubt that the financial motivation is real, but I think way too simplistic. What happens when those motivated to join for financial reasons are told to don their suicide vest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't doubt that the financial motivation is real, but I think way too simplistic. What happens when those motivated to join for financial reasons are told to don their suicide vest? Those aren't the ones who are using suicide vests. The fanatics are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't doubt that the financial motivation is real, but I think way too simplistic. What happens when those motivated to join for financial reasons are told to don their suicide vest? Read the article. It wasn't about terrorists signing up. It was about people joining ISIS so they can participate in the ISIS economy (and of course, fight in Iraq/Syria). I repectfully disagree. I believe the vast majority who join the American military as the best option also have a sense of patriotism and believe in our laws, and want to remain respected within our country by showing their loyalty to our country and laws. Mercenaries have no loyalty to one country or laws and will often do anything for the money. Yup. We'll disagree on how different they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Those aren't the ones who are using suicide vests. The fanatics are. Read the article. It wasn't about terrorists signing up. It was about people joining ISIS so they can participate in the ISIS economy (and of course, fight in Iraq/Syria). Ok, Unfortunately whatever their motivation is it's too late for them and those who continue to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Ok, Unfortunately whatever their motivation is it's too late for them and those who continue to join. If you read the article, it details how ISIS works. You either join and participate in the economy or you are basically starved out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 If you read the article, it details how ISIS works. You either join and participate in the economy or you are basically starved out. I understand, or you're murdered I imagine. I'm just saying that with the situation deteriorating to the point that it has in Syria it's too late to remove that financial motivation without enduring whats coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Interesting short read. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-defector-explained-key-reason-180356055.html If Syrians are joining out of economic desperation, how do those living under ISIS rule have economic means to pay the taxes and fees that support the regime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 If Syrians are joining out of economic desperation, how do those living under ISIS rule have economic means to pay the taxes and fees that support the regime? ISIS doesn't have taxes, the export millions of dollars in crude oil every month to support themselves. This is coming from an article posted earlier discussing US air strikes on these crude oil convoys in an effort to cripple them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Anne Frank, and the Frank family, was turned down for a US visa. Something to think about: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/14/us-annefrank-letters-idUSN1430569220070214#HmyajvjLmsX2tVYf.97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 If Syrians are joining out of economic desperation, how do those living under ISIS rule have economic means to pay the taxes and fees that support the regime? Extortion. Taking what little they have. You get starved out if you don't sign on. It's in that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeygirl Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 So the US is bombing the heck out of Syria, Russians are bombing and sending in cruise missiles. The French are bombing the hell out of Syria. Britain is lobbying their government to bomb the hell out of Syria Syria must really be hell on Earth right now Anybody else have some bombs they want to drop in the desert? The playground is open for all...besides, we need a strong quarter or the investors will sell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeygirl Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) You referenced the Hegelian dialect, so I'm guessing you are no welder! Philosophy is not my cup of tea (but I'm not a welder either), but the Hegelian dialect really is a beautiful idea. It seems to be a very powerful force in how damn near everything happens. I learned it as thesis / antithesis / synthesis where synthesis eventually degrades into thesis, or status quo or stagnation, so the cycle never ends. It is brilliant and maniacal at the same time. It is all about influencing change and thus is best achieved when there are two absolute ideologies that must necessarily coexist in order for a given outcome to be realized. However, the resolution of the conflict is never the goal, only the desired outcome is the goal. And since the desired outcome may not be completely achieved through just one conflict, a continuous stream of conflicts is necessary in order for the dialectical method of conflict non-resolution to endure indefinitely. Edited November 19, 2015 by Monkeygirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Extortion. Taking what little they have. You get starved out if you don't sign on. It's in that link. Right but ultimately they'll extort all the wealth there is. I've read articles that say the key to defeating ISIS isn't to fight them but avoid conflict and seek to contain them, and let them implode on themselves. I can see that happening pretty quickly if all the wealth they have is what they started with. If they cannot conquer new territory they'll go bankrupt and that'll be the end of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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