PASabreFan Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Plus the cop has carry, and arrest authority if things get out of hand. Do you think this cop who is a family friend of the Kanes, and is employed by Patrick Kane, would arrest Patrick Kane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Do you think this cop who is a family friend of the Kanes, and is employed by Patrick Kane, would arrest Patrick Kane? He's there to keep him out of trouble, not to condone wrongdoing. Keep looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Amy Moritz writes: "Rape culture involves conversations, jokes and actions that normalize rape." Apparently this is part of our sports culture. Really? Normalize? Has rape ever been the norm? Do conversations and jokes about war, murder, and genocide "normalize" those things? Do "mama" jokes normalize ? Sexual braggadocio has long been part of the locker room (yes, both the male and the female locker room), but I think it is a long shot to say that any of those things "normalize" rape. The rapist has the urge to have sex with someone that does not want to have sex with them. The rapist acts on that impulse to the indifference and suffering of a protesting victim. The rapist has a psychology that is deviant and disordered. Every empirical study I've read suggest that the "Culture of Rape" starts in childhood, often one that has been sexually abusive or physically abusive and grows to repeat the cycle on others. Often it is learned behavior. There is your "culture of rape." It essence, rape is fundamentally a non-sports story. In sports you may find metaphors for life. But I really think the idea that this is a sports story needs to stop. If anything, sports probably clouds any useful discussion about rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 He's there to keep him out of trouble, not to condone wrongdoing. Keep looking. True, but the authority that a police officer carries 24/7 can create a sense of hubris on the part of the protected. The "authority" is serving him/her, and can create a perception that they are if not above the law, somehow part of its enforcement. I know that with tight budgets that hardworking honest officers are looking for ways to supplement their incomes and wouldn't want great officers to leave public service for the private sector, but I have seen some very unusual bedfellows here in Chicago where off duty police are providing security at clubs and events that probably needed investigation not security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Amy Moritz writes: "Rape culture involves conversations, jokes and actions that normalize rape." Apparently this is part of our sports culture. Really? Normalize? Has rape ever been the norm? Do conversations and jokes about war, murder, and genocide "normalize" those things? Do "mama" jokes normalize ######? Sexual braggadocio has long been part of the locker room (yes, both the male and the female locker room), but I think it is a long shot to say that any of those things "normalize" rape. The rapist has the urge to have sex with someone that does not want to have sex with them. The rapist acts on that impulse to the indifference and suffering of a protesting victim. The rapist has a psychology that is deviant and disordered. Every empirical study I've read suggest that the "Culture of Rape" starts in childhood, often one that has been sexually abusive or physically abusive and grows to repeat the cycle on others. Often it is learned behavior. There is your "culture of rape." It essence, rape is fundamentally a non-sports story. In sports you may find metaphors for life. But I really think the idea that this is a sports story needs to stop. If anything, sports probably clouds any useful discussion about rape. I'm not so sure this is a non-sports story, and I'm not so sure that involving the culture of athletics (at least, at elite levels) is confusing matters or impeding progress. Our most admired sports leagues (not just the pros (for example, SEC football, or, shoot, high school football)) are stages upon which a certain community's (from a small town's to a nation's) cultural values can be presented, played out, discussed, dissected, and, sometimes, changed. It's appropriate to discuss whether and to what extent the culture of an elite-level sport program is facilitating these sorts of incidents (by fostering attitudes that lead to them). Secondly, I have read no studies (empirical or otherwise) on the matter, but I don't sense that the same sorts of things are happening (at the same rates) with male members of other elite-level extra curricular activities (marching band, debate club, mock UN, etc.). I wonder if there are stats out there on that? In other words: Do participants in high-profile sports programs commit sex offenses at rates higher than those of their peers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm not so sure this is a non-sports story, and I'm not so sure that involving the culture of athletics (at least, at elite levels) is confusing matters or impeding progress. Our most admired sports leagues (not just the pros (for example, SEC football, or, shoot, high school football)) are stages upon which a certain community's (from a small town's to a nation's) cultural values can be presented, played out, discussed, dissected, and, sometimes, changed. It's appropriate to discuss whether and to what extent the culture of an elite-level sport program is facilitating these sorts of incidents (by fostering attitudes that lead to them). Secondly, I have read no studies (empirical or otherwise) on the matter, but I don't sense that the same sorts of things are happening (at the same rates) with male members of other elite-level extra curricular activities (marching band, debate club, mock UN, etc.). I wonder if there are stats out there on that? In other words: Do participants in high-profile sports programs commit sex offenses at rates higher than those of their peers? I think you'll find poverty and sexual violence are related. Sports programs tend to take in more at-risk kids. Whatever that leads to on the professional level, who knows? But I think it is deeply flawed to think that the privilege that comes with high level sports makes rape more or less likely as to call it a "culture". A culture is a "way of life," right? Rapists prey on the vulnerable. Most rapists are known by their victims. (But those mock UN kids. They are a bunch of sickos.) Is the Bill Cosby story really about comedy? Or if you are Donald Trump, (watch out for the Mexicans) is it really about ethnicity? The idea that rape is a product of locker-room jokes, conversations, and actions is confusing correlations with cause. Kids in Steubenville, Pat Kane, Vanderbilt all have been in locker rooms where "rape culture" breeds by permitting jokes and objectifying women creating rape as a way of life. That seems way too easy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ahh, gotcha. Makes sense. Her piece is all fine and well, but the paper's scrambling after its misstep has become absurd. Seemed to be a poor woman's repackaging of the article by the Chicago guy that came out when this all started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-lawyer-is-arguing-with-people-on-facebook-1724570340 Cambria engaging in rape debate on Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Seemed to be a poor woman's repackaging of the article by the Chicago guy that came out when this all started. I don't mean to demean Amy Moritz's by writing my reaction. .(or to her, especially, I've met her more than once and she's really a fine person and a solid journalist) If anything, I think it is as good a starting place as any to have a conversation. http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-lawyer-is-arguing-with-people-on-facebook-1724570340 Cambria engaging in rape debate on Facebook. Looks like Cambria is the lawyer to have if your jury is chosen on Facebook. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Not a good look. I, and I'm sure the other lawyers on this board, have been subjected to many CLE sessions dealing at least in part with social media. Here's the rule to follow when tempted to take to the internets on sensitive subjects involving, or even potentially involving your clients (when not making well thought out and proofread statements for a specific purpose that aren't knee-jerk reactions to something you read in the paper no matter how stupid it may or may not be): NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-lawyer-is-arguing-with-people-on-facebook-1724570340 Cambria engaging in rape debate on Facebook. Is that really Paul Cambria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://deadspin.com/patrick-kanes-lawyer-is-arguing-with-people-on-facebook-1724570340 Cambria engaging in rape debate on Facebook. Man, I find it hard to believe that he would have grammar/spelling that awful. If it's really him... that's incredibly stupid and unprofessional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Is that really Paul Cambria? I don't think so. Yes it is. I have verified by (1) clicking on the "Paul Cambria" in Bedenko's posts to make sure there's not more than one account using the same picture and (2) looking at the list of mutual friends. Yep, that's his account. Edited August 17, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Not a good look. I, and I'm sure the other lawyers on this board, have been subjected to many CLE sessions dealing at least in part with social media. Here's the rule to follow when tempted to take to the internets on sensitive subjects involving, or even potentially involving your clients (when not making well thought out and proofread statements for a specific purpose that aren't knee-jerk reactions to something you read in the paper no matter how stupid it may or may not be): NO. Most CLE courses dealing with the subject are of the Ethics variety, and the general theme of all that I have taken have been, avoid social media like the plague. You put your office hours on it, but the potential for harm to your reputation and worse inadvertently disclosing confidential client info is too much for the little benefit to be gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Plus the cop has carry, and arrest authority if things get out of hand. Unless he is working for the department, he would have no more "arrest" authority than any citizen. LEOSA allows police to carry anywhere in the U.S., but any officer that believes carrying a gun gives him "authority" needs to find other employment. (And New York's round restrictions still gives me headaches, last I heard, it had to be my duty weapon or else restricted round laws are enforced. Kinda crazy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Man, I find it hard to believe that he would have grammar/spelling that awful. If it's really him... that's incredibly stupid and unprofessional. He's justifying the grammar and spelling by saying he uses speech to text. It remains incredibly stupid and unprofessional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Paging Johnnie Cochrane, paging Johnnie Cochrane .... Please call your office ... (I know, I know ... I just couldn't make another Kardashian reference on the interweb) I would be surprised if that's a defense attorney, but what do I know ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think so. Yes it is. Good grief. You know, like Mssr Cambria, I too pretend to be a lawyer from time to time. And on the internet to boot. Perhaps I need to revisit the idea of going to law school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't mean to demean Amy Moritz's by writing my reaction. .(or to her, especially, I've met her more than once and she's really a fine person and a solid journalist) If anything, I think it is as good a starting place as any to have a conversation. It appeared to me to be a heavily delayed repackaging of another article that was shared through social media a week or two ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Good grief. You know, like Mssr Cambria, I too pretend to be a lawyer from time to time. And on the internet to boot. Perhaps I need to revisit the idea of going to law school. I'm almost wondering if someone got into a computer that he uses and logged in as him. It's that inconceivable that he would do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I feel compelled to post this. Rape culture does exist and we have witnessed it manifest several times in this very thread. Rape culture and sports culture are not the same thing. Sports however bring a spotlight to whatever aspects of life they touch and sometimes those aspects are terrible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm almost wondering if someone got into a computer that he uses and logged in as him. It's that inconceivable that he would do this. His account could certainly have been compromised. I await a press release from his agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm almost wondering if someone got into a computer that he uses and logged in as him. It's that inconceivable that he would do this. I think Kane needs a new lawyer :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I'm almost wondering if someone got into a computer that he uses and logged in as him. It's that inconceivable that he would do this. Agreed. But I think it was himself. Bizarre. I think you'll find poverty and sexual violence are related. Sports programs tend to take in more at-risk kids. Whatever that leads to on the professional level, who knows? But I think it is deeply flawed to think that the privilege that comes with high level sports makes rape more or less likely as to call it a "culture". A culture is a "way of life," right? Rapists prey on the vulnerable. Most rapists are known by their victims. (But those mock UN kids. They are a bunch of sickos.) Is the Bill Cosby story really about comedy? Or if you are Donald Trump, (watch out for the Mexicans) is it really about ethnicity? The idea that rape is a product of locker-room jokes, conversations, and actions is confusing correlations with cause. Kids in Steubenville, Pat Kane, Vanderbilt all have been in locker rooms where "rape culture" breeds by permitting jokes and objectifying women creating rape as a way of life. That seems way too easy to me. I don't know that rape is a product of the culture that can be found in some elite-level sports programs. But do unhealthy cultures in some programs causally contribute to some kids (young men) getting and staying off the rails, thinking they're entitled to do as they please, and who the hell are you tell me I'm not? Compare the Jameis Winston stuff with shoplifting crab legs. I agree that it's overly facile to say athletes rape because of a mysoginistic culture in the proverbial locker room, but there's a conversation to be had there. I feel compelled to post this. Rape culture does exist and we have witnessed it manifest several times in this very thread. Rape culture and sports culture are not the same thing. Sports however bring a spotlight to whatever aspects of life they touch and sometimes those aspects are terrible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture This is part of what I was getting at upthread. Edited August 17, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I feel compelled to post this. Rape culture does exist and we have witnessed it manifest several times in this very thread. Rape culture and sports culture are not the same thing. Sports however bring a spotlight to whatever aspects of life they touch and sometimes those aspects are terrible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture Me thinks you didn't even to bother to read your posted entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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