Former Sabre Steve Montador Dead at 35

[PASabreFan]

I didn't see the hit, but your first three all seem like reasonable possibilities in the abstract.

The Caps seemed to be targeting the Islander defenseman, who has had concussion issues. As much as the hit was clean by NHL rule standards, it was filthy in that it was much more about taking out a guy than winning possession of the puck. Laich of the Caps even went on the radio and said it was a good penalty to take because it took the Isles down to five D. My God, how do you take that mentality out of the game? Where do you even start?

[X. Benedict]

The Caps seemed to be targeting the Islander defenseman, who has had concussion issues. As much as the hit was clean by NHL rule standards, it was filthy in that it was much more about taking out a guy than winning possession of the puck. Laich of the Caps even went on the radio and said it was a good penalty to take because it took the Isles down to five D. My God, how do you take that mentality out of the game? Where do you even start?

No doubt. 

 

Well within the rules, but what is Visnovsky thinking going behind the net on that Sunday stroll? 

 

And Laich is truthful even though it is an ugly truth everyone knows. That hit probably wins the series. 

[SDS]

The Caps seemed to be targeting the Islander defenseman, who has had concussion issues. As much as the hit was clean by NHL rule standards, it was filthy in that it was much more about taking out a guy than winning possession of the puck. Laich of the Caps even went on the radio and said it was a good penalty to take because it took the Isles down to five D. My God, how do you take that mentality out of the game? Where do you even start?

 

The fear of fines and punitive suspension should heavily weigh on the minds of every player. Borderline hits should be on the tails of the curve and not an every game occurrence. Players shouldn't be blowing through yellow lights and going to frame by frame video analysis to see if their speeding through the intersection beat the rule with the time resolution of an atomic clock. Not every hit needs to made. It's a part of the game, not the game itself. When in doubt, the axe should fall on the side of caution, not leniency. Your desire to finish your check should not take precedent over the career of a fellow player.

 

That's a start.

[PASabreFan]

The fear of fines and punitive suspension should heavily weigh on the minds of every player. Borderline hits should be on the tails of the curve and not an every game occurrence. Players shouldn't be blowing through yellow lights and going to frame by frame video analysis to see if their speeding through the intersection beat the rule with the time resolution of an atomic clock. Not every hit needs to made. It's a part of the game, not the game itself. When in doubt, the axe should fall on the side of caution, not leniency. Your desire to finish your check should not take precedent over the career of a fellow player.

 

That's a start.

Well said. I'd go up the food chain at least one more and fine/suspend the coaches, who make a lot less than the players do, generally. The strategy of targeting Visnovsky had to come from Barry Trotz, who should have some empathy, having lost his neck in a game in 1983.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Bakers get paid an average of 30K a year and usually have no feeling in their fingertips.

 

Police get paid an average of 60K a year and die 10+ years earlier than the average person while risking their life and helping people everyday.

 

Military get paid an average of 40K a year, and I'm pretty sure we've lost a few more million of those poor souls doing their job than athletes.

 

A hockey player gets paid an average of 3.5 million to take 17 minutes of ice, 82 times a year......or what equates to 3 days of working for the average person.

 

 

If I want to see a tear jerker, I'll go to the Met to watch Pagliacci........

[TrueBlueGED]

Bakers get paid an average of 30K a year and usually have no feeling in their fingertips.

 

Police get paid an average of 60K a year and die 10+ years earlier than the average person while risking their life and helping people everyday.

 

Military get paid an average of 40K a year, and I'm pretty sure we've lost a few more million of those poor souls doing their job than athletes.

 

A hockey player gets paid an average of 3.5 million to take 17 minutes of ice, 82 times a year......or what equates to 3 days of working for the average person.

 

 

If I want to see a tear jerker, I'll go to the Met to watch Pagliacci........

 

Your point is very well taken, but I think the flip side is that your examples are serving necessary functions in society. We're watching people ruin their lives in sports just to get entertained. Again, I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's a perfect parallel.

[LTS]

The fear of fines and punitive suspension should heavily weigh on the minds of every player. Borderline hits should be on the tails of the curve and not an every game occurrence. Players shouldn't be blowing through yellow lights and going to frame by frame video analysis to see if their speeding through the intersection beat the rule with the time resolution of an atomic clock. Not every hit needs to made. It's a part of the game, not the game itself. When in doubt, the axe should fall on the side of caution, not leniency. Your desire to finish your check should not take precedent over the career of a fellow player.

 

That's a start.

 

The flipside of the problem are the players who keep turning their back to plays with the expectation that they are not supposed to get hit.  Most of the time it works, but in those split seconds sometimes it doesn't.  Sure, they draw a penalty but was it worth it?

 

Watch how many players flip a puck and immediately turn their back to a checker.  Watch how many guys cycle along the boards but will put themselves in a vulnerable position the moment they think they will get lit up with the expectation they won't.

 

In truth, of most players anticipated the hits and didn't turn their back to plays I think the amount of problems would also lessen.  But because there are rules and consequences for the hitting now you see a lot of players no longer willing to take the hit to make the play.  They turn their back and expect that they have gained an advantage because they can't get hit anymore.  Except when they do.

[That Aud Smell]

Bakers get paid an average of 30K a year and usually have no feeling in their fingertips.

 

Police get paid an average of 60K a year and die 10+ years earlier than the average person while risking their life and helping people everyday.

 

Military get paid an average of 40K a year, and I'm pretty sure we've lost a few more million of those poor souls doing their job than athletes.

 

A hockey player gets paid an average of 3.5 million to take 17 minutes of ice, 82 times a year......or what equates to 3 days of working for the average person.

 

 

If I want to see a tear jerker, I'll go to the Met to watch Pagliacci........

 

Don't no one take away my precious blood sport, eh?

 

I think this should be cross-posted in the Cliche' thread.

 

And, in fairness, I would reply with something along the lines of "Hur Dur Hur Old Time Hur Rock 'Em  Dur Sock 'Em Hur Dur Don Cherry Hur Dur Manly Hockey."

[deluca67]

The idea that Connolly was soft always confused me. In his heyday, the guy was as fearless (even reckless) a player as they had on the team. It was that style that led to the head/neck injuries.

Connolly's biggest problem was that he was not prepared for the NHL game. He had the talent, he needed a good 2-3 years in the AHL to develop his instincts and get a feel for the speed of the game. IMO, given time to develop he would be a productive NHL player today. He just wasn't prepared and it cost him.  

[Eleven]

No doubt. 

 

Well within the rules, but what is Visnovsky thinking going behind the net on that Sunday stroll? 

 

And Laich is truthful even though it is an ugly truth everyone knows. That hit probably wins the series. 

 

As did Boychuk's hit on Vanek.  This league....

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Your point is very well taken, but I think the flip side is that your examples are serving necessary functions in society. We're watching people ruin their lives in sports just to get entertained. Again, I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's a perfect parallel.

 

Which is all the more reason to laugh.

 

They CHOOSE to enter a profession that is 10x as wussified as it was 40 years ago....5x as 20 years ago.....

 

Bottom line, most of these guys don't even graduate high school, leave their families to live with strangers at 16 years old in order to pursue a chance at a career in non-essential entertainment, and many have very few acquired skills after the game. How am I supposed to cry? Montador was a cool dude. He was probably a very bright guy, but his history shows that concussions weren't the issue. His personality was one that was probably a chemical imbalance. Look at interviews with guys like Tony Twist or the history of guys like Probert. You have to be a little off to play the game a certain way.

 

I'm ALL for supporting the transition back to civilian life for pro athletes...especially ones with mediocre tenure or salary.

 

I'd bet a large sum of money that pro athletes are having a much bigger negative impact on their kidneys, livers, and hearts from all the suppliments they are encouraged to take in order to get bigger and faster than the handfull who get their bell rung. Not illegal stuff....just high protien, over oxygenation, yadda yadda.

[qwksndmonster]

As did Boychuk's hit on Vanek.  This league....

That wasn't a hit.  It was a two handed slash.

Which is all the more reason to laugh.

 

They CHOOSE to enter a profession that is 10x as wussified as it was 40 years ago....5x as 20 years ago.....

 

Bottom line, most of these guys don't even graduate high school, leave their families to live with strangers at 16 years old in order to pursue a chance at a career in non-essential entertainment, and many have very few acquired skills after the game. How am I supposed to cry? Montador was a cool dude. He was probably a very bright guy, but his history shows that concussions weren't the issue. His personality was one that was probably a chemical imbalance. Look at interviews with guys like Tony Twist or the history of guys like Probert. You have to be a little off to play the game a certain way.

 

I'm ALL for supporting the transition back to civilian life for pro athletes...especially ones with mediocre tenure or salary.

 

I'd bet a large sum of money that pro athletes are having a much bigger negative impact on their kidneys, livers, and hearts from all the suppliments they are encouraged to take in order to get bigger and faster than the handfull who get their bell rung. Not illegal stuff....just high protien, over oxygenation, yadda yadda.

Not true at all.  Players can skate and shoot faster than ever before, and now have weaponized shoulders to plaster their opponents.

 

And it makes me cringe to hear somebody referring to concussions as getting their "bell rung"

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That wasn't a hit.  It was a two handed slash.

Not true at all.  Players can skate and shoot faster than ever before, and now have weaponized shoulders to plaster their opponents.

 

And it makes me cringe to hear somebody referring to concussions as getting their "bell rung"

 

Again....the majority of NHL players come through major Junior Hockey.

 

The majority of players in major Junior Hockey leave their families between 15-18 years old to live with complete strangers, hundreds or thousands of miles away, in order to chase a dream of having a 10% chance to make millions of dollars and fame playing a game that is their national pastime.

 

You were a good musician when you were 15 I assume. Why didn't your parents ship you off to California for a 10% chance at being in an industry to have the chance to be the next Ringo Starr or Tico Torres?

 

Feel free to come up with ideas to make it safer for players. Maybe you answered the question.....get rid of helmets, excessive pads, and maybe the game goes to an offensive, mutual respect like it used to be.

[qwksndmonster]

The next Ringo Starr? :lol: I was better than Ringo at drumming when I was 12.  His real talent was happening to be in a band with those other guys.

 

I don't have the same reaction that you do about the danger being more acceptable because they dedicate their lives to it (I think that's an accurate simplification of your point, lemme know)

 

It would take a helluva lot of change to actually make the game safer.  The playoffs are a war, and the NHL clearly wants it that way.  When they start calling guys for obviously going after players once the puck is gone, we could see some of the BS leave the sport.  But most of the time in the NHL playoffs if you're in the offensive zone, you're gonna get a stick in your back no matter what.

And I did actually give a hard thought about going to college for music.  In the end, 10% seemed like a generous figure for the kind of success I wanted. I also didn't really want to focus on percussion/timpani.  I've been almost exclusively playing guitar for the past few years so maybe eventually I'll get to Django ReinDhart levels.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The next Ringo Starr? :lol: I was better than Ringo at drumming when I was 12.  His real talent was happening to be in a band with those other guys.

 

I don't have the same reaction that you do about the danger being more acceptable because they dedicate their lives to it (I think that's an accurate simplification of your point, lemme know)

 

It would take a helluva lot of change to actually make the game safer.  The playoffs are a war, and the NHL clearly wants it that way.  When they start calling guys for obviously going after players once the puck is gone, we could see some of the BS leave the sport.  But most of the time in the NHL playoffs if you're in the offensive zone, you're gonna get a stick in your back no matter what.

And I did actually give a hard thought about going to college for music.  In the end, 10% seemed like a generous figure for the kind of success I wanted. I also didn't really want to focus on percussion/timpani.  I've been almost exclusively playing guitar for the past few years so maybe eventually I'll get to Django ReinDhart levels.

 

I chose those drummers for a reasons. The best musicians usually don't make that type of money.

 

Bottom line, Montador was an awesome teammate who always gave of himself on and off the ice. I just think it is folly to pin this on concussions. It's a mental health issue, which concussions could have been a synergistic issue, but not the direct cause.

 

In the stock market among other data driven areas, there is an idea of Beta. I think you have to look at the mental makeup and personality of people in the same terms. If the average reaction to a stimulus is 1.0 , some people may be highly emotional or divergent, or prone to make quick decisions. They may have a Beta of 3. Then you may have a very conservative person who is calculated and doesn't want to make a mistake or rock the boat, and their Beta may be a 0.5. When the same event happens that impacts both of these people, the mental impact and reactions of both can be expected to greatly different. A concussion and retiring may lead a guy like Montador to critical mass after taking his baseline into account to a point where his sense of self-worth is shattered. If the same thing happens to Ville Lieno, maybe he sits at home drinking espresso, petting his cats, and collecting a 200K pension every year.

 

Montador seemed like he was very self aware, and the downtime probably made him obsess even moreso about his situation, which made it an exponential sitiuation that fed off itself.

[Neo]

Bakers get paid an average of 30K a year and usually have no feeling in their fingertips.

 

Police get paid an average of 60K a year and die 10+ years earlier than the average person while risking their life and helping people everyday.

 

Military get paid an average of 40K a year, and I'm pretty sure we've lost a few more million of those poor souls doing their job than athletes.

 

A hockey player gets paid an average of 3.5 million to take 17 minutes of ice, 82 times a year......or what equates to 3 days of working for the average person.

 

 

If I want to see a tear jerker, I'll go to the Met to watch Pagliacci........

 

“La commedia è finita!”

[LastPommerFan]

Bakers get paid an average of 30K a year and usually have no feeling in their fingertips.

 

Police get paid an average of 60K a year and die 10+ years earlier than the average person while risking their life and helping people everyday.

 

Military get paid an average of 40K a year, and I'm pretty sure we've lost a few more million of those poor souls doing their job than athletes.

 

A hockey player gets paid an average of 3.5 million to take 17 minutes of ice, 82 times a year......or what equates to 3 days of working for the average person.

 

 

If I want to see a tear jerker, I'll go to the Met to watch Pagliacci........

 

 

I'd like to continue to see the best athletes possible land in the NHL, for my entertainment. The more we learn about PCS and CTE, and how these conditions are developing at a much younger age than the NHL, the more we will see the best athletes (and their parents) choose to play different sports. I want the NHL to address this issue so that the product I love stays as skilled or more than it is today.

[Drunkard]

I chose those drummers for a reasons. The best musicians usually don't make that type of money.

 

Bottom line, Montador was an awesome teammate who always gave of himself on and off the ice. I just think it is folly to pin this on concussions. It's a mental health issue, which concussions could have been a synergistic issue, but not the direct cause.

 

In the stock market among other data driven areas, there is an idea of Beta. I think you have to look at the mental makeup and personality of people in the same terms. If the average reaction to a stimulus is 1.0 , some people may be highly emotional or divergent, or prone to make quick decisions. They may have a Beta of 3. Then you may have a very conservative person who is calculated and doesn't want to make a mistake or rock the boat, and their Beta may be a 0.5. When the same event happens that impacts both of these people, the mental impact and reactions of both can be expected to greatly different. A concussion and retiring may lead a guy like Montador to critical mass after taking his baseline into account to a point where his sense of self-worth is shattered. If the same thing happens to Ville Lieno, maybe he sits at home drinking espresso, petting his cats, and collecting a 200K pension every year.

 

Montador seemed like he was very self aware, and the downtime probably made him obsess even moreso about his situation, which made it an exponential sitiuation that fed off itself.

Very interesting take and having a finance/econ/accounting background I appreciate the Beta reference and it definitely has some merit. Glad to have you back, Ghost. Hopefully you manage to avoid the ban hammer going forward because this place is more interesting when you are around.

[SwampD]

I might argue that entertainment is a necessity. It might even be in the Declaration of Independence.

[Sabrestrike]

I chose those drummers for a reasons. The best musicians usually don't make that type of money.

 

Bottom line, Montador was an awesome teammate who always gave of himself on and off the ice. I just think it is folly to pin this on concussions. It's a mental health issue, which concussions could have been a synergistic issue, but not the direct cause.

 

In the stock market among other data driven areas, there is an idea of Beta. I think you have to look at the mental makeup and personality of people in the same terms. If the average reaction to a stimulus is 1.0 , some people may be highly emotional or divergent, or prone to make quick decisions. They may have a Beta of 3. Then you may have a very conservative person who is calculated and doesn't want to make a mistake or rock the boat, and their Beta may be a 0.5. When the same event happens that impacts both of these people, the mental impact and reactions of both can be expected to greatly different. A concussion and retiring may lead a guy like Montador to critical mass after taking his baseline into account to a point where his sense of self-worth is shattered. If the same thing happens to Ville Lieno, maybe he sits at home drinking espresso, petting his cats, and collecting a 200K pension every year.

 

Montador seemed like he was very self aware, and the downtime probably made him obsess even moreso about his situation, which made it an exponential sitiuation that fed off itself.

 

To be fair, I don't think Carcillo was saying concussions were to blame, at least not exclusively.  He clearly said that the league, or the PA, needs to exit employees better, to help transition them to civilian life.

 

I get that they choose to do this, but I see no reason why the league that exploits them shouldn't have some responsibility for ensuring their healthy retirement.  I'm not saying the fans or the government should do it.  I'm seeing the league or the PA should.  That seems fair and humane to me.

[Eleven]

That wasn't a hit.  It was a two handed slash.

Not true at all.  Players can skate and shoot faster than ever before, and now have weaponized shoulders to plaster their opponents.

 

And it makes me cringe to hear somebody referring to concussions as getting their "bell rung"

 

Same concept:  Take a player out of the playoffs, no consequences, all reward.

[JJFIVEOH]

It takes a special person to become an athlete. If it were easy everybody would do it. Hockey has become an over-regulated, over-protected sport and it has led to a more dangerous sport. Not more physical, more dangerous. 

 

There are some things you just can't get rid of. It's a form of entertainment, one of which pays well for its best athletes..... even for the lesser ones to a point. What's next, do we take speed out of racing?

Why should the NHL, or the PA become more responsible for transitioning players into civilian life? Hockey players now know what they're getting into, its not like this comes as a surprise. If I decide to leave my job, I don't see them doing anything to make it easier for me to find another job. 

 

Now I can see a need for a special group of medical professionals that cares for athletes post-retirement. A specialized group of doctors might make it cheaper to deal with issues instead of just relying on a family doctor using a civilian medical plan. 

[qwksndmonster]

Same concept:  Take a player out of the playoffs, no consequences, all reward.

Hits are legal, though.  Two handed slashes never are (hypothetically).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

“La commedia è finita!”

 

Is that "Clash Spanish" from Spanish Bombs?

 

-----

 

Hey qwk,

 

At least he went with Ringo and not Pete Best.

[PASabreFan]

Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Basic, first step: get rid of fighting. Despite all the information the league has about concussions, the fact it still allows the game to be stopped so guys can hit each other in the head is asinine.

Edited April 24, 2015 by @fakegorbyportwinestain