Claude_Verret Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Most Bradys are found at the top of the draft. Enough excuses. Get a ###### quarterback. Most QBs picked at the top of the draft can't hold Bradys jock. Dumb luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Most QBs picked at the top of the draft can't hold Bradys jock. Dumb luck. Of course not. He's the best QB of all time. That's a dumb standard to hold QBs to. I'll just dig this up and leave it here... A post I made during the preseason: Since 1990 there have been 36 QBs draft in the top 10. So 8% of QBs drafted in the top 10 since 1990 have won a Super Bowl. Looking at it a little differently, here's a list of Super Bowl winning QBs since 1990 with their draft position listed next to them: 1990: Joe Montana (Rd 3, Pick 82 in 1979) over John Elway (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1983) 1991: Jeff Hostetler (Rd 3, Pick 59 in 1984) over Jim Kelly (Rd 1, Pick 14 in 1983) 1992: Mark Rypien (Rd 6, Pick 146 in 1986) over Jim Kelly (Rd 1, Pick 14 in 1983) 1993: Troy Aikman (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1989) over Jim Kelly (Rd 1, Pick 14 in 1983) 1994: Troy Aikman (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1989) over Jim Kelly (Rd 1, Pick 14 in 1983) 1995: Steve Young* (Rd 1 of 1984 Supp. Draft) over Stan Humphries* (Rd 6, Pick 159 in 1988) 1996: Troy Aikman (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1989) over Neil O'Donnell (Rd 3, Pick 70 in 19990) 1997: Brett Favre* (Rd 2, Pick 33 in 1991) over Drew Bledsoe (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1993) 1998: John Elway (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1983) over Brett Favre* (Rd 2, Pick 33 in 1991) 1999: John Elway (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1983) over Chris Chandler* (Rd 3, Pick 76 in 1988) 2000: Kurt Warner (Undrafted in 1994) over Steve McNair (Rd 1, Pick 3 in 1995) 2001: Trent Dilfer* (Rd 1, Pick 6 in 1994) over Kerry Collins* (Rd 1, Pick 5 in 1995) 2002: Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) over Kurt Warner (Undrafted in 1994) 2003: Brad Johnson* (Rd 9, Pick 227 in 1992) over Rich Gannon* (Rd 4, Pick 98 in 1987) 2004: Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) over Jake Delhomme* (Undrafted in 1997) 2005: Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) over Donovan McNabb (Rd 1, Pick 2 in 1999) 2006: Ben Roethlisberger (Rd 1, Pick 11 in 2004) over Matt Hasselback* (Rd 6, Pick 187 in 1998) 2007: Peyton Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1998) over Rex Grossman (Rd 1, Pick 22 in 2003) 2008: Eli Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 2004) over Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) 2009: Ben Roethlisberger (Rd 1, Pick 11 in 2004) over Kurt Warner (Undrafted in 1994) 2010: Drew Brees* (Rd 2, Pick 32 in 2001) over Peyton Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1998) 2011: Aaron Rodgers (Rd 1, Pick 24 in 2005) over Ben Roethlisberger (Rd 1, Pick 11 in 2004) 2012: Eli Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 2004) over Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) 2013: Joe Flacco (Rd 1, Pick 18 in 2008) over Colin Kaepernick (Rd 2, Pick 36 in 2011) 2014: Russell Wilson (Rd 3, 75 in 2012) over Peyton Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1998) 2015: Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) over Russell Wilson (Rd 3, 75 in 2012) *Indicates a player playing that game for a team other than their first team (meaning they played a regular season game for another team first) From that group: 40/52 are appearances by a QB playing for his first team. Breakdown by round: 27/52 first rounders 4/52 second rounders 6/52 third rounders 1/52 fourth rounders 0/52 fifth rounders 9/52 sixth rounders 0/52 seventh rounders 1/52 ninth rounders 4/52 undrafted So get your QB in the 1st or 6th. And keep them. Edited November 30, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Garoppolo, Mallett and Cassel. Three out of the seven QBs they've taken since Brady started. That's assuming all 20 QBs they drafted turned into washouts... Which is highly unlikely. But yes, I would be. I think your list makes my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think your list makes my point. That the bills should be taking a QB every year until they find one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 ###### it. Blow it up, go for whichever QB Hoss and True can decide on together I'm not sure it's possible for me to agree on a QB with someone who thinks Kirk Cousins is good :p Well, this could take a while. Who do you like Blue? Honestly, my order is probably the same as yours for the top guys: Lynch > Goff > Cook. Beyond that I honestly and truly don't care, it's impossible to predict those mid-round guys they're all so flawed--I'd probably take the guy with the best brain as long as his arm talent were at least okay. I'd just stay far, far away from Cardale Jones. Tank 2.0, here we come. Too bad we can't unload all of the talent we have on this team for prospects As much of an advocate for tanking as I was for the Sabres, I'm not as big of a tank advocate in the NFL, and it's mostly due to how the talented is distributed in both drafts. In the NHL you're almost guaranteed a star if you can get a top 2-3 pick and the odds fall off a cliff later in the round, whereas in the NFL it's more like a coin flip and the dropoff later in the 1st round is much less precipitous. If we lose next week I may be in favor of tanking this season, but I'm not exactly in favor of tossing 3 years into the furnace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Honestly, my order is probably the same as yours for the top guys: Lynch > Goff > Cook. Beyond that I honestly and truly don't care, it's impossible to predict those mid-round guys they're all so flawed--I'd probably take the guy with the best brain as long as his arm talent were at least okay. I'd just stay far, far away from Cardale Jones. I agree with your order. I think Lynch and Goff are tight with Cook having a small gap after that. And I also completely agree that, beyond that, I don't care. I'm staying far from Jones, too (at least if I'm Buffalo). Get one of those three or just quit. Also, this is another list I had in the preseason: QBs drafted (or undrafted) since 1990 to have won at least three playoff games: Tom Brady (Rd 6, Pick 1999 in 2000) Brett Favre (Rd 2, Pick 33 in 1991) Peyton Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1998) Ben Roethlisberger (Rd 1, Pick 11 in 2004) Joe Flacco (Rd 1, Pick 18 in 2008) Kurt Warner (Undrafted in 1994) Donovan McNabb (Rd 1, Pick 2 in 1999) Eli Manning (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 2004) Russell Wilson (Rd 3, 75 in 2012) Drew Brees (Rd 2, Pick 32 in 2001) Aaron Rodgers (Rd 1, Pick 24 in 2005) Trent Dilfer (Rd 1, Pick 6 in 1994) Jake Delhomme (Undrafted in 1997) Mark Brunell (Rd 5, Pick 118 in 1993) Steve McNair (Rd 1, Pick 3 in 1995) Matt Hasselback (Rd 6, Pick 187 in 1998) Mark Sanchez (Rd 1, Pick 5 in 2009) Colin Kaepernick (Rd 2, Pick 36 in 2011) Brad Johnson (Rd 9, Pick 227 in 1992) Philip Rivers (Rd 1, Pick 3 in 2004) Drew Bledsoe (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 1993) Andrew Luck (Rd 1, Pick 1 in 2012) Neil O'Donnell (Rd 3, Pick 70 in 19990) Kerry Collins (Rd 1, Pick 5 in 1995) (Order by number of playoff wins since they were drafted) 13/24 first rounders 3/24 second rounders 2/24 third rounders 0/24 fourth rounders 1/24 fifth rounders 2/24 sixth rounders 0/24 seventh rounders 1/24 ninth rounders 2/24 undrafted Still stand by the dumb luck comment, Claude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Keep the coaching staff. Keep building the defense and O-line through the draft. Find a kick-returner to replace Harvin. Do what it takes to get Kaepernick into a Bills uniform next season. Sorry, the Bills don't have time with this defense to draft and cultivate a mid-first round QB prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I think your list makes my point. Problem is your post doesn't make a point. The point is that they drafted QBs despite having one. Nobody said they drafted Hall of Famers. You just do it. And 3/7 is a pretty high number regardless of individual performance. Edited November 30, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Problem is your post doesn't make a point. The point is that they drafted QBs despite having one. Nobody said they drafted Hall of Famers. You just do it.The point is they can't just build one. In the timeframe you keep referring to they passed on maybe three QB's, probably less, that would have been an upgrade. This is a league wide problem. You can make a list of twenty quarterbacks and tell us guys like Tannehill and Bortles are displaying signs of superstar ability but it doesn't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Keep the coaching staff. Keep building the defense and O-line through the draft. Find a kick-returner to replace Harvin. Do what it takes to get Kaepernick into a Bills uniform next season. Sorry, the Bills don't have time with this defense to draft and cultivate a mid-first round QB prospect. Dear lord, no. Fire the DC, fire the dude who is in charge of challenges, get a LB's and Safeties, and fire that DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 The point is they can't just build one. In the timeframe you keep referring to they passed on maybe three QB's, probably less, that would have been an upgrade. This is a league wide problem. You can make a list of twenty quarterbacks and tell us guys like Tannehill and Bortles are displaying signs of superstar ability but it doesn't make it right. So what? Just keep our hands in our pockets and keep losing? Because it just seems like all you are capable of doing is defending Whaley and saying "but what could they do?" Do you have any productive plans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I agree with your order. I think Lynch and Goff are tight with Cook having a small gap after that. And I also completely agree that, beyond that, I don't care. I'm staying far from Jones, too (at least if I'm Buffalo). Get one of those three or just quit. That's where I'm at too, although I wouldn't be surprised if I end up moving Goff up to #1 when all is said and done (I do a lot more reading about draft prospects after the season than I do during it, so this is based on a handful of viewings each and light reading). Cook's accuracy is very worrisome for me, but I think he's shown he can operate in a pro-style offense and read pro route trees. Lynch has the highest upside and best tools, but his vision and reads worry me (especially here, where he'd almost assuredly be thrust into starting duty right away), but I have more confidence in that to develop over time than I do accuracy. Goff probably has the best combination of physical tools and football brain and I'd say the highest floor among the group, but his struggles with pressure and long-developing plays are a concern--not sure I see the star potential in him as I do in Lynch, but I also don't think he'd bust whereas I see that risk in Lynch. Teams love tools though, so my guess is Lynch goes #1 to Cleveland, and the real debate is if we can get up high enough for Goff or settle for a more realistic goal of Cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I agree with everything you just said wholeheartedly. Goff was my clear number one early but Lynch has overtaken him. I trust Goff more but really think Lynch could be a great one moreso than any other. I'm willing to give up a boatload for either. I wouldn't give up nearly as much for Cook but also don't think you would have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Any given Sunday... Denver has a much better defense than we do this season, like not even close. Yet we played Brady much better last week than they are this week. Funny game sometimes. On that note, I'm going to start a GoFundMe to transfer Osweiler's arm to Manning. Guy can sling it, but he looks like EJ going through his progressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Any given Sunday... Denver has a much better defense than we do this season, like not even close. Yet we played Brady much better last week than they are this week. Funny game sometimes. On that note, I'm going to start a GoFundMe to transfer Osweiler's arm to Manning. Guy can sling it, but he looks like EJ going through his progressions. Easier just to swap the brains. Peyton needs Osweiler's entire body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 come on--Rex is completely at fault regarding the challenges.Its his responsibility to have that under control. Blaming the replay system for the idiot moves....Rex the 7 yr old...Rex-how about you have TWO people from home looking at the motorola----then they could call someone standing real near you on their cell phone.And then that person could tell ya if you should do the challenge??? eff768ng dumb^%$%.We have to do your thinking for you?? And people here really think we should have Rex back next year? There is no cure for that kind of stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Good calti, let the hate flow through you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 So what? Just keep our hands in our pockets and keep losing? Because it just seems like all you are capable of doing is defending Whaley and saying "but what could they do?" Do you have any productive plans? As opposed to conjuring up some trade scenarios some white knight football guru is going to force some unsuspecting franchise to make with us to give us the next Tom Brady? As long as the team progresses under Whaley, I will continue to believe the best course of action is to stay the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 As opposed to conjuring up some trade scenarios some white knight football guru is going to force some unsuspecting franchise to make with us to give us the next Tom Brady? As long as the team progresses under Whaley, I will continue to believe the best course of action is to stay the course. Again - why are we holding QBs to Tom Brady's standard? It makes no sense. And the team hasn't progressed under Whaley this year so what gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Again - why are we holding QBs to Tom Brady's standard? It makes no sense. And the team hasn't progressed under Whaley this year so what gives? On paper the Bills did progress. When the players on paper were healthy Buffalo had a very good team. Not trying to make excuses, but injuries held this team back. Whaley did his part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Again - why are we holding QBs to Tom Brady's standard? It makes no sense. And the team hasn't progressed under Whaley this year so what gives? Ok, the next Russel Wilson or any other name you deem competent to win the Super Bowl. The season isn't over but I think the progress is evident and I still expect the record to show that progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ok, the next Russel Wilson or any other name you deem competent to win the Super Bowl. The season isn't over but I think the progress is evident and I still expect the record to show that progress. So you're saying us fans are not allowed to wonder about the possibility and expect an effort to find a competent player at the most important position in sports? Yeesh. And you expect them to be better than 9-7? They'll have to win out. Easy schedule but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Other than Harvin, it seems like everyone brought in this offseason has worked out at least fairly well. The major drop off has been with guys who were already here, specifically that defense. If they're anywhere near where they were last year we are at least two games better. I have a tough time pinning this on Whaley. I do think he winds up gone, but we are looking in the wrong place and it will only prolong the agony. Is it still called agony of it lasts two decades (soon enough)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 So you're saying us fans are not allowed to wonder about the possibility and expect an effort to find a competent player at the most important position in sports? Yeesh. And you expect them to be better than 9-7? They'll have to win out. Easy schedule but I don't know. Fans are allowed to wonder and hope for anything they want. The problem I have with all your scenarios is that A) you act like they don't know they need better QB play B) you make it sound like they can just decide to go out and get what 20 other teams are looking for because they want to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 These refs are terrible and Gronk may have just broken something. I'm not mad. Relevant: Mike Sando, ESPN.com @SandoESPN 1h1 hour ago Since 2010, Brady's TD rate is about twice as high when Gronk is on the field. The one guy Brady has to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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