TrueBlueGED Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think you're reaching a bit with that last part. A good GM isn't going to just let a coach jerk players around because he wants to evaluate the coach. That's backwards. I also don't support the idea that keeping Nolan around is for supporting the tank. I'd expect GMTM is more concerned with making sure the foundation of the team is being strengthened, not with keeping a coach on the job just to bottom the team out. That goes against the entire ethos of "rebuild". You don't hire a demolition crew to pour your foundation. Isn't it possible that Murray sincerely believes it's not his job to tell the coach what to do with individual players? Anyway, I suppose we'll find out who is right after the season with whether Nolan is fired or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 If he didn't, he'd fire him, no? Guess we will find out in six weeks or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Isn't it possible that Murray sincerely believes it's not his job to tell the coach what to do with individual players? Anyway, I suppose we'll find out who is right after the season with whether Nolan is fired or not. I sincerely believe that every GM is involved in player handling to varying degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Guess we will find out in six weeks or so. You think it'd happen that quickly after the end of the season? I guess it makes sense to give them the most possible time to find a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You think it'd happen that quickly after the end of the season? I guess it makes sense to give them the most possible time to find a replacement. I think he's being evaluated every day and Tim will have his mind made up by season's end. And Tim's not the type to wait around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think he's being evaluated every day and Tim will have his mind made up by season's end. And Tim's not the type to wait around. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think he's being evaluated every day and Tim will have his mind made up by season's end. And Tim's not the type to wait around. I think Murray already knows what he's going to do. I can't imagine Nolan will do something in the last third of the season to sway Murray's opinion from what he has observed the majority of last year and this year. I sincerely believe that every GM is involved in player handling to varying degrees. Sure, and Murray could easily be on the low end of that involvement scale. His public comments point to it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think Murray already knows what he's going to do. I can't imagine Nolan will do something in the last third of the season to sway Murray's opinion from what he has observed the majority of last year and this year. Sure, and Murray could easily be on the low end of that involvement scale. His public comments point to it anyway. Yup. Murray gave Nolan a long leash and let the slow strangulation commence. Nolan not even trying to talk to Hodgson is troubling. Was Cody being that much of a little ? Is Nolan really that much of a baboon? Either way Cody will get another shot next year with a new coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think Hodgson will for sure be elsewhere next season. I do believe there could be some crazy team wanting to trade for him but if not they'll buy him out at 1/3 the price. So, do you think this, or are you sure? Can't be both. Oh, and I'm just yankin' your chain, since qwk has deemed me to be the nicest guy using the Internet. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 So, do you think this, or are you sure? Can't be both. Oh, and I'm just yankin' your chain, since qwk has deemed me to be the nicest guy using the Internet. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine, though. It's my thought that he will be elsewhere. It may not be somebody else's. My thoughts are that there is no doubt. Pet peeves are a pet peeve of mine. We're not that important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think you're reaching a bit with that last part. A good GM isn't going to just let a coach jerk players around because he wants to evaluate the coach. That's backwards. I also don't support the idea that keeping Nolan around is for supporting the tank. I'd expect GMTM is more concerned with making sure the foundation of the team is being strengthened, not with keeping a coach on the job just to bottom the team out. That goes against the entire ethos of "rebuild". You don't hire a demolition crew to pour your foundation. Yea exactly. He's not going to let Nolan knowingly ruin some of our young players. He has to have some level of trust. Some people are wayyyyy overthinking this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Who wants to make a charity gentleman's bet? Because I'd like to wager that Nolan doesn't get fired before next season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You know, if Hodgson had anything going for him, wouldn't GMTM have intervened by now? If he didn't want Nolan ruining his trade value or trying to break him I think we'd be seeing it. But at face value GMTM doesn't seem to give a rat's a** about Cody or about what Ted is doing with him. I suspect both Hodgson and Nolan are 'throw aways' from GMTM's perspective, along with a goodly chunk of the current roster. He probably only cares that they continue to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Saying he's like a Jason Pominville with 1/3rd the offense output is kind of offensive. Pominville, for how soft he was perceived here, was the epitome of a hard-working player who overcame whatever lack of skill he had through...hard work. Anyone who thinks this is what Hodgson is like is not paying attention in my opinion. Well, he was commonly referred to as "Captain Creampuff" and variants on the forums. But, Pominville is a MUCH better, more skilled, and more effective player than Hodgson, both offensively and defensively. Just that neither were/are the kings of hits on the ice. Hodgson's softness coupled with his lack of effectiveness both offensively and defensively makes him just plain pathetic. But, in light of poor Steve Montador, maybe soft isn't so bad as long as the player is still effective out there? Edited February 16, 2015 by Jsixspd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Well, he was commonly referred to as "Captain Creampuff" and variants on the forums. But, Pominville is a MUCH better, more skilled, and more effective player than Hodgson, both offensively and defensively. Just that neither were/are the kings of hits on the ice. Hodgson's softness coupled with his lack of effectiveness both offensively and defensively makes him just plain pathetic. But, in light of poor Steve Montador, maybe soft isn't so bad as long as the player is still effective out there? Don't know about that. Didn't Pomms nearly get killed getting slammed face first into the boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Don't know about that. Didn't Pomms nearly get killed getting slammed face first into the boards? Yes, he did... scary stuff, that. Edited February 16, 2015 by biodork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Isn't it possible that Murray sincerely believes it's not his job to tell the coach what to do with individual players? Anyway, I suppose we'll find out who is right after the season with whether Nolan is fired or not. If that were true, Nolan would be gone already. GMTM is like a kid hooked on trading cards - no way is he going to let anyone ruin them. I think he's being evaluated every day and Tim will have his mind made up by season's end. And Tim's not the type to wait around. Again, if Nolan were as bad as the recent drama on this board would have us believe, Nolan would be gone. Is there any doubt that GMTM acts when GMTM wants to act? Well, he was commonly referred to as "Captain Creampuff" and variants on the forums. But, Pominville is a MUCH better, more skilled, and more effective player than Hodgson, both offensively and defensively. Just that neither were/are the kings of hits on the ice. Hodgson's softness coupled with his lack of effectiveness both offensively and defensively makes him just plain pathetic. But, in light of poor Steve Montador, maybe soft isn't so bad as long as the player is still effective out there? Hard work and hitting are in no way equivocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 If that were true, Nolan would be gone already. GMTM is like a kid hooked on trading cards - no way is he going to let anyone ruin them. Again, if Nolan were as bad as the recent drama on this board would have us believe, Nolan would be gone. Is there any doubt that GMTM acts when GMTM wants to act? I firmly believe now GMTM does what he wants when it suits his purposes. I don't think firing Nolan with 27 games to go suits his purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 If that were true, Nolan would be gone already. GMTM is like a kid hooked on trading cards - no way is he going to let anyone ruin them. Again, if Nolan were as bad as the recent drama on this board would have us believe, Nolan would be gone. Is there any doubt that GMTM acts when GMTM wants to act? I simply don't arrive at the conclusion that lack of firing implies support at this juncture. Murray could have decided to act...in the offseason. A decision to fire need not be implemented immediately, especially if doing so may improve the team. As to the comment about ruining his toys...I'd be pretty surprised if Murray thought that one year (or if he recently decided to fire Nolan, from then until the end of the season) of subpar coaching was going to ruin players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I simply don't arrive at the conclusion that lack of firing implies support at this juncture. Murray could have decided to act...in the offseason. A decision to fire need not be implemented immediately, especially if doing so may improve the team. As to the comment about ruining his toys...I'd be pretty surprised if Murray thought that one year (or if he recently decided to fire Nolan, from then until the end of the season) of subpar coaching was going to ruin players. Then I believe you're being inconsistent with your logic. For example, if Murray knows he's tanking, and knows he's giving Nolan pretty much nothing to work with, how can Murray reasonably make a decision based on this season's outcome(s)? Also, if the idea is to accomplish a rebuild sooner rather than later, how does setting players and the team culture back even further than they already were help realize that goal? All that does is make the situation worse for any in-coming coach. That's the opposite of efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Then I believe you're being inconsistent with your logic. For example, if Murray knows he's tanking, and knows he's giving Nolan pretty much nothing to work with, how can Murray reasonably make a decision based on this season's outcome(s)? Also, if the idea is to accomplish a rebuild sooner rather than later, how does setting players and the team culture back even further than they already were help realize that goal? All that does is make the situation worse for any in-coming coach. That's the opposite of efficient. Micro vs. macro. The overall talent level is such that the team is going to stink, but that doesn't mean that the internal decision-making should be irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Micro vs. macro. The overall talent level is such that the team is going to stink, but that doesn't mean that the internal decision-making should be irrelevant. So, this is the Kobayashi Maru and you expect Nolan to pull a Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 So, this is the Kobayashi Maru and you expect Nolan to pull a Kirk. Nolan isn't smart enough for that. Besides Murray doesn't simply control the pieces but for another 3 weeks he has the ability to change the rules himself. He did that when he traded Enroth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I am reasonably certain Murray expected more from Matt Moulson, Brian Gionta, Cody Hodgson, and Chris Stewart this season. He probably also was betting on a little more from pending UFAs like Meszaros and Benoit and Neuvirth and Stafford. And he probably had an unrealistic hope that some of the kids would have contributed more than they have. You could also make an argument that while nearly half the roster has underachieved, virtually no one has overachieved. The mantra this year was development. Who is developing? This part is not particularly aimed at you Sizzle, but I hate this idea that has crept into the fanbase that Nolan is beyond reproach because the management wants him to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I am reasonably certain Murray expected more from Matt Moulson, Brian Gionta, Cody Hodgson, and Chris Stewart this season. He probably also was betting on a little more from pending UFAs like Meszaros and Benoit and Neuvirth and Stafford. And he probably had an unrealistic hope that some of the kids would have contributed more than they have. You could also make an argument that while nearly half the roster has underachieved, virtually no one has overachieved. The mantra this year was development. Who is developing? This part is not particularly aimed at you Sizzle, but I hate this idea that has crept into the fanbase that Nolan is beyond reproach because the management wants him to lose. That's true. I will say that I think the players in juniors have taken a good leap forward and Risto and Zadorov continue to improve. Zemgus has also improved. The vets however stink. Ennis being the exception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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