freester Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think respected sports outlets reporting on legitimate conversations they had with insders about Myers being traded to Detroit is enough to warrant discussion on an internet message board. This isn't an (E5) I'm glad GMTM is asking for the moon, because I don't want to trade Myers and I don't think he does either. He has enough to deal with trying to move the previous ly referenced players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Agreed that there's a big difference. But there's also a big difference between trading the team's current leader in ice time and expecting the team's current leader in ice time to be planned for that role going forward. As unconscionable as you may find it, I have no problem believing Murray would trade Myers if he thought it was in the franchise's long-term interest, whether that's due to tanking or due to the specific package we were getting back in return. If Murray actually believes that securing McEichel (plus whatever we got in return for Myers) is going to pay larger dividends than keeping Myers and landing say Strome in the draft, I don't see why it's hard to believe he'd pull the trigger. And that's really the point: it's not just Myers for the tank, it's the tank and what we get in return for him. Sorry, but there's nothing "ridiculous on its face" about that. And there is no doubt that Detroit would like Myers. There could be (and obviously currently is) a chasm between what Holland is willing to offer and what Murray will accept. Whether that chasm closes is the interesting question. It won't necessarily. Way back in the days of the slug, Atlanta had a huge need for a goalie; Buffalo had at least 1 too many; and Waddell was on record as wanting 1 of them. They never agreed on a fair value even though a trade (darn near ANY trade) would have benefitted the Threshers. If a known bright guy like Holland wants your guy; maybe, just maybe, you should want him too. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Agreed that there's a big difference. But there's also a big difference between trading the team's current leader in ice time and expecting the team's current leader in ice time to be planned for that role going forward. As unconscionable as you may find it, I have no problem believing Murray would trade Myers if he thought it was in the franchise's long-term interest, whether that's due to tanking or due to the specific package we were getting back in return. If Murray actually believes that securing McEichel (plus whatever we got in return for Myers) is going to pay larger dividends than keeping Myers and landing say Strome in the draft, I don't see why it's hard to believe he'd pull the trigger. And that's really the point: it's not just Myers for the tank, it's the tank and what we get in return for him. Sorry, but there's nothing "ridiculous on its face" about that. Of course -- in the abstract, TM will make any trade if it is in the team's best interests. But we're not operating in the abstract, and I think it's ridiculous on its face to think that, in reality, TM will conclude that trading Myers for a return that doesn't include high-quality NHL-ready players is in the team's best interests (and if that's the return, it won't help the tank). In reality, the team is buying into the TN approach and getting great contributions from 3 of their new young core players (Zemgus, Risto and Nikita). I don't think TM, who retained TN and brought in a number of solid vets last summer to teach the young guys how to win, will conclude that it's in the team's best interests to sabotage his roster in order to return the losing percentage to 80% -- especially because, in reality, there are a number of other teams ahead of them or even with them in the race for DFL. Frankly, no matter what TM does, the Sabres probably won't fall below Edmonton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Of course -- in the abstract, TM will make any trade if it is in the team's best interests. But we're not operating in the abstract, and I think it's ridiculous on its face to think that, in reality, TM will conclude that trading Myers for a return that doesn't include high-quality NHL-ready players is in the team's best interests (and if that's the return, it won't help the tank). In reality, the team is buying into the TN approach and getting great contributions from 3 of their new young core players (Zemgus, Risto and Nikita). I don't think TM, who retained TN and brought in a number of solid vets last summer to teach the young guys how to win, will conclude that it's in the team's best interests to sabotage his roster in order to return the losing percentage to 80% -- especially because, in reality, there are a number of other teams ahead of them or even with them in the race for DFL. Frankly, no matter what TM does, the Sabres probably won't fall below Edmonton. It could just be that Murray thinks Myers is a 2nd pair Dman on this team long term, but can get close to 1st pair value for him right now. Trade while value is high. The anti-Darcy, if you will. I think the competition for the bottom is precisely what would motivate action, not inaction. A marginal roster change can mean a lot when the teams are so close. And we'll never agree on Nolan--I think he's the dedicated fall man for the bad year or two of the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Whether that chasm closes is the interesting question. If Holland sweetens the pot, GMTM may increase his perception of Myers's worth on the market and want even more for him. So even if Holland offers more doesn't mean GMTM will accept it. (i.e., the chasm may never close) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 He was being sarcastic you hoser. Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Welcome to the great white North! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Welcome to the great white North! That's my avatar! ...or at least it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 If Holland sweetens the pot, GMTM may increase his perception of Myers's worth on the market and want even more for him. So even if Holland offers more doesn't mean GMTM will accept it. (i.e., the chasm may never close) I'd be surprised if that were the case. I expect that Murray knows what he'd take as a minimal offer. If that minimal acceptable offer changes by him getting offered it, he's probably not very good at his job. ;) That said, I do expect that there's a time component though to the value he expects back and what he'd accept today could be (actually, it probably is) different than what it would be at the deadline could be different than in the off-season. I'd also expect that upon receiving an acceptable offer he goes back to other suiters and asks them to sweeten the pot. (Doubt Tyler is in Joe Thornton territory where you only talk to 1 suiter for fear of the player finding out he was on the block in the 1st place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 It could just be that Murray thinks Myers is a 2nd pair Dman on this team long term, but can get close to 1st pair value for him right now. Trade while value is high. The anti-Darcy, if you will. This is exactly what I think. Murray doesn't value Myers as highly as many on this forum do. There is a reason our barn has been filled with scouts for the past couple of months and there is a reason outlets keep reporting on Myers trade rumors and on the asking price for Myers (e.g. Larkin + Jurco + a first). Where there is smoke there is fire. I think Murray is very open to such a trade and has given his trade demands to multiple teams. http://prohockeytalk...-is-reportedly/ If a team steps up to the plate, bye bye Big Tyler. If not, then he is already signed long-term and we're winning. Murray has a ton of leverage and he knows that. So now he waits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo! Welcome to the great white North! Has there been a greater moment in Canadian rock'n'roll than Geddy Lee joining Bob and Doug for an unforgettable version of "Take Off?" (Mick Jagger screwing Margaret Trudeau is certainly in the conversation.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 The asking price for Detroit to get Tyler Myers is reportedly… …prospect Dylan Larkin, a roster player along the lines of a Riley Sheahan or Tomas Jurco, and a first-round pick. http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/12/the-asking-price-for-detroit-to-get-tyler-myers-is-reportedly/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I'd be surprised if that were the case. I expect that Murray knows what he'd take as a minimal offer. If that minimal acceptable offer changes by him getting offered it, he's probably not very good at his job. ;) That said, I do expect that there's a time component though to the value he expects back and what he'd accept today could be (actually, it probably is) different than what it would be at the deadline could be different than in the off-season. I'd also expect that upon receiving an acceptable offer he goes back to other suiters and asks them to sweeten the pot. (Doubt Tyler is in Joe Thornton territory where you only talk to 1 suiter for fear of the player finding out he was on the block in the 1st place.) I think that's what I meant - the time component. f didn't mean to say that Murray's acceptable offer would go up *because* of an offer from Holland, but rather that Murray would increase his acceptable offer over time as they got closer to the deadline, and Holland might never catch up. EDIT: I went back and read what I wrote and it sure sounds like you read it right. It's not really what I meant to say though. (Listen to what I *mean* and not what I *say*.) Edited December 12, 2014 by Neuvirths Glove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think that's what I meant - the time component. f didn't mean to say that Murray's acceptable offer would go up *because* of an offer from Holland, but rather that Murray would increase his acceptable offer over time as they got closer to the deadline, and Holland might never catch up. EDIT: I went back and read what I wrote and it sure sounds like you read it right. It's not really what I meant to say though. (Listen to what I *mean* and not what I *say*.) 'I see' said the blind man. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 MattPie's Theorem: "The volume of trade rumors is directly proportional to the size of the player." Man, first my daughter today starts turning towards the TV whenever the Sabres goal horn sounds and now I have a theorem named after me? It's a good day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 The asking price for Detroit to get Tyler Myers is reportedly… …prospect Dylan Larkin, a roster player along the lines of a Riley Sheahan or Tomas Jurco, and a first-round pick. http://prohockeytalk...-is-reportedly/ That's not an unreasonable price considering Myers will only be 25 this February. Watching Myers you see the talent, if or when that switch goes on and his game comes together he will be one of the top d-men in the league. The price listed here is equal to the possible rewards. Any team trading for Myers is trading for the player they believe he will become, not the player he is at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 That's not an unreasonable price considering Myers will only be 25 this February. Watching Myers you see the talent, if or when that switch goes on and his game comes together he will be one of the top d-men in the league. The price listed here is equal to the possible rewards. Any team trading for Myers is trading for the player they believe he will become, not the player he is at this point. Bingo, and exactly why I would pull the trigger on this if I were the Sabres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 The asking price for Detroit to get Tyler Myers is reportedly… …prospect Dylan Larkin, a roster player along the lines of a Riley Sheahan or Tomas Jurco, and a first-round pick. http://prohockeytalk...-is-reportedly/ I'm madly in love with the idea of the Sabres getting Dylan Larkin. With Girgensons stepping up this year, Reinhart cruising in the WHL again, Grigorenko doing well in the AHL, Compher doing well at Michigan, and then Larkin off to a stellar start at Michigan this year, the Sabres would have the best center situation that I can remember. That would mean the Sabres can go straight BPA with their four draft picks in the top 40 come June 2015. The only drawback is that our defense would suddenly be very suspect with Myers gone and Pysyk and McCabe both struggling this year in the AHL. We'd definitely need another trade to shore up our D with someone we can build around long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Is it just me, or did we get taken in the Brayden McNabb deal? I like Delourouri (how ever you spell his name) but McNabb is pretty good and that college kid they got is years and years away. Bad deal, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Is it just me, or did we get taken in the Brayden McNabb deal? I like Delourouri (how ever you spell his name) but McNabb is pretty good and that college kid they got is years and years away. Bad deal, IMO Can't judge that or the sekera trade for several years in my opinion because in both trades the center piece we got was a college prospect (compher and Fasching). Not really fair to judge a trade in the short term when of course one side was going to benefit more in the short term. Of course carolina is going to benefit more in the short term with sekera than we will with compher, and of course LA is going to benefit more in the short term with mcnabb than we will with fasching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 McCabe and Pysyk made McNabb expendable. Players like McNabb are a dime a dozen so even if Fasching doesn't pan out it was worth the risk. Deslausiers is basically McNabb right now- just at forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Can't judge that or the sekera trade for several years in my opinion because in both trades the center piece we got was a college prospect (compher and Fasching). Not really fair to judge a trade in the short term when of course one side was going to benefit more in the short term. Of course carolina is going to benefit more in the short term with sekera than we will with compher, and of course LA is going to benefit more in the short term with mcnabb than we will with fasching. Fair enough. But they got an NHL d man that looks really solid and will be for a long time, Fasching better be worth it Players like McNabb are a dime a dozen I don't agree at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 McCabe and Pysyk made McNabb expendable. Players like McNabb are a dime a dozen so even if Fasching doesn't pan out it was worth the risk. Deslausiers is basically McNabb right now- just at forward. I wish McCabe and Pysyk were playing as well as McNabb right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 let's also remember mcnabb is 3 years older than mccabe and 2 years older than pysyk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 I wish McCabe and Pysyk were playing as well as McNabb right now. I should have added that to my post. At the time of the trade McNabb was expendable. I think management expected more out of Pysyk and McCabe this year. Both of those guys wete destined for Rochester this year. McNabb if he didn't make the team had to clear waivers. There are a lot of variables that come into play when these moves are made. More often than not they are made for tomorrow not today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Why the Red Wings won't acquire Tyler Myers: http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2014/11/28/detroit-red-wings-tyler-myers/19627041/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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