Trade speculation 2014-15

[thewookie1]

I wouldn't mind Hall, but I'm completely unwilling to part with Risto, Zadorov, Girgs, or our 1st rounder.

[sicknfla]

That is way too steep. Dreger reported Hall not enamored with Edmonton. If they feel the need to move him his price comes down. The alternative is to keep him which is antithetical to wanting to trade him in the first place. One of the firsts not ours, Myers, Grigo, Enroth.

 

Still to much. Can't unload a center in this deal.

[3putt]

Not every team has what the Oil wants. D and gt together are a big ask.

[Eleven]

There would have to be more pieces involved, but who would trade the Sabres first for Hall?

 

Given that I am no longer certain that it will even be a lottery pick, I'd do it.

 

What I wouldn't do is give up any of the young talent for him. Not even ONE of Zadorov, Girgensons, etc. So if I were TM, I'd just not bother pursuing Taylor Hall.

[dudacek]

Given that I am no longer certain that it will even be a lottery pick, I'd do it.

 

What I wouldn't do is give up any of the young talent for him. Not even ONE of Zadorov, Girgensons, etc.

 

So if I were TM, I'd just not bother pursuing Taylor Hall.

 

Me too on your first two points (assuming you are talking young talent already on the roster).

That might make a trade impossible, unless it is the Oilers plan to tank.

 

But Pysyk and McCabe would be on the table and might attract interest. Same with Grigo and some of our second-tier forwards.

I wonder if all three firsts would attract some interest.

[LGR4GM]

I wouldn't mind Hall, but I'm completely unwilling to part with Risto, Zadorov, Girgs, or our 1st rounder.

What I wouldn't do is give up any of the young talent for him. Not even ONE of Zadorov, Girgensons, etc. So if I were TM, I'd just not bother pursuing Taylor Hall.

Exactly. Hall is being discussed as unwilling to adapt his style of play in Edmonton. That doesn't sound like the type of guy you want to bring in. Yea he is talented but Zadorov, Rasmus, Zemgus are the guys on the Sabres right now showing 2 important things, Improvement on the ice and leadership off the ice.

 

"Taylor Hall has a pretty specific vision on how he sees he needs to play and maybe how he thinks the team should play, and he really isn’t open to change, and that’s a problem."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/taylor-hall-is-un-coachable--will-be-on-trade-block--report-000824459.html

 

As for RNH out of Edmonton, I honestly believe Reinhart is a smarter and better version of him.

[dudacek]

Let'd be clear on exactly what Hall is: an elite scoring winger, who is young with a reasonable, long-term contract.

That makes him the third most valuable commodity in the league behind franchise centre and franchise defence man.

 

The best recent trade comparable would be Rick Nash: (Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a first)

A better one is Phil Kessel: (Two firsts and a second, one of the firsts surprisingly high)

Best Buffalo comparison Alexander Mogilny: (Peca, Wilson and a first)

 

So, some comparables:

Compher, Grigorenko, Pysyk and the Blues first

Islanders first, Sabres first and second

Grigorenko, Pysyk and Islanders first

[TrueBlueGED]

There would have to be more pieces involved, but who would trade the Sabres first for Hall?

 

The "other pieces" would have to be infinitesimal in significance to get me to bite. Of course, I'm also apparently close to last man standing on this team being terrible.

[nfreeman]

There would have to be more pieces involved, but who would trade the Sabres first for Hall?

 

Not me. The Sabres probably (but not certainly) are going to be in the lottery and probably will have a top 10 pick in a loaded draft. They probably won't end up with McD or Eichel, but they could easily end up with a future star that they can develop the right way (if TM proves out to be good at his job).

 

Let'd be clear on exactly what Hall is: an elite scoring winger, who is young with a reasonable, long-term contract.

That makes him the third most valuable commodity in the league behind franchise centre and franchise defence man.

 

The best recent trade comparable would be Rick Nash: (Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a first)

A better one is Phil Kessel: (Two firsts and a second, one of the firsts surprisingly high)

Best Buffalo comparison Alexander Mogilny: (Peca, Wilson and a first)

 

So, some comparables:

Compher, Grigorenko, Pysyk and the Blues first

Islanders first, Sabres first and second

Grigorenko, Pysyk and Islanders first

 

Kessel had 36 goals in his 2nd NHL season, following which the Bruins traded him. Hall is now in his 5th NHL season and has not exceeded 27 goals. He's also been a core part of a terrible team for those 5 years, with credible sources reporting that he's got a questionable attitude.. That's more like not-quite-as-good-as-Vanek than it is like Kessel -- and I wouldn't trade Myers, Risto, Nikita, Zemgus or Ennis for Vanek, let alone not-quite-as-good-as-Vanek.

 

However, I would trade some combination of the Islanders' and STL's #1s, Pysyk, McCabe, Griggy, etc. -- but I don't think that would be nearly enough to get it done.

[TrueBlueGED]

Not me. The Sabres probably (but not certainly) are going to be in the lottery and probably will have a top 10 pick in a loaded draft. They probably won't end up with McD or Eichel, but they could easily end up with a future star that they can develop the right way (if TM proves out to be good at his job).

 

 

 

Kessel had 36 goals in his 2nd NHL season, following which the Bruins traded him. Hall is now in his 5th NHL season and has not exceeded 27 goals. He's also been a core part of a terrible team for those 5 years, with credible sources reporting that he's got a questionable attitude.. That's more like not-quite-as-good-as-Vanek than it is like Kessel -- and I wouldn't trade Myers, Risto, Nikita, Zemgus or Ennis for Vanek, let alone not-quite-as-good-as-Vanek.

 

However, I would trade some combination of the Islanders' and STL's #1s, Pysyk, McCabe, Griggy, etc. -- but I don't think that would be nearly enough to get it done.

 

Freeman, you are seriously undervaluing Hall. Not as good as Vanek? Hall is only 23 and already better than Vanek ever was, and this is coming from a Vanek fan! I take Hall all day every day over Kessel too, especially considering the contract differences. And I'm not sure why you're ignoring how long Toronto was hot garbage with Kessel as its best player.

[Claude_Verret]

The "other pieces" would have to be infinitesimal in significance to get me to bite. Of course, I'm also apparently close to last man standing on this team being terrible.

 

I'm still with you brother. The Shart is not lost!

Edited December 16, 2014 by Claude_Verret

[Brawndo]

 

 

Exactly. Hall is being discussed as unwilling to adapt his style of play in Edmonton. That doesn't sound like the type of guy you want to bring in. Yea he is talented but Zadorov, Rasmus, Zemgus are the guys on the Sabres right now showing 2 important things, Improvement on the ice and leadership off the ice.

 

"Taylor Hall has a pretty specific vision on how he sees he needs to play and maybe how he thinks the team should play, and he really isn’t open to change, and that’s a problem."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/taylor-hall-is-un-coachable--will-be-on-trade-block--report-000824459.html

 

As for RNH out of Edmonton, I honestly believe Reinhart is a smarter and better version of him.

 

The same things where being said about Tyler Seguin as well. Is there anyone on the board that would not have traded for him?

[nfreeman]

Freeman, you are seriously undervaluing Hall. Not as good as Vanek? Hall is only 23 and already better than Vanek ever was, and this is coming from a Vanek fan! I take Hall all day every day over Kessel too, especially considering the contract differences. And I'm not sure why you're ignoring how long Toronto was hot garbage with Kessel as its best player.

 

I've never been a Vanek fan, but his primary role was to light the lamp, and he did that pretty well during his 1st 8 years in the NHL -- substantially better than Hall has in his 1st 5 years so far. And Kessel has been more productive than either of them.

[Randall Flagg]

I've never been a Vanek fan, but his primary role was to light the lamp, and he did that pretty well during his 1st 8 years in the NHL -- substantially better than Hall has in his 1st 5 years so far. And Kessel has been more productive than either of them.

Kessel and Hall each had 80 points last year, and Hall did it in seven fewer games

[sicknfla]

This team has come to far to unload a combination of 5 players/picks for one guy. This isn't the time for this kind if deal. Let the season play out as planned. Unload the UFA's and go into the draft with all options on the table.

[Johnny DangerFace]

Hall is a 23 year old ppg winger who already scores 25-30 goals a season. No matter what the negatives are, that is still very true.

 

I would trade away Armia, pysyk, stl 1st, ny 1st, and two mid level prospects. I don't think that would have a chance to do it but who knows with Edmonton. I just don't think we are a good trade partner and would be too costly to get.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Johnny DangerFace

[Samson's Flow]

The same things where being said about Tyler Seguin as well. Is there anyone on the board that would not have traded for him?

At the time the trade for Seguin was viewed as pretty high risk because of these concerns. It has obviously worked out pretty well for Dallas, but one example of a similar situation doesn't guarantee that a trade for Hall would work out equally well.

 

That being said, eventually the number of prospects we have should be turned into better/elite level prospects via trade. Hall would be one of those elite level players since he has the pedigree (former #1, Canada WJC top scorer and 3rd in tournament, etc.) that could translate into a true 1st line LW.

[nfreeman]

Kessel and Hall each had 80 points last year, and Hall did it in seven fewer games

 

True, but Kessel had 37 goals while Hall had 27.

[TrueBlueGED]

I've never been a Vanek fan, but his primary role was to light the lamp, and he did that pretty well during his 1st 8 years in the NHL -- substantially better than Hall has in his 1st 5 years so far. And Kessel has been more productive than either of them.

 

Few things:

 

-The league was much different scoring-wise when Vanek was young than it is now.

 

-Vanek was playing on much better teams...even the post-black Sunday teams.

 

-You're making the mistake of not looking at games played. The biggest knock on Hall could (and should) be his ability to stay on the ice. But his scoring rates are amongst the best in the league since he was drafted. 243 points in 271 games is elite offensive production.

[nfreeman]

Hall is a 23 year old ppg winger who already scores 25-30 goals a season. No matter what the negatives are, that is still very true.

 

I would trade away Armia, pysyk, stl 1st, ny 1st, and two mid level prospects. I don't think that would have a chance to do it but who knows with Edmonton. I just don't think we are a good trade partner and would be too costly to get.

 

His career high is 27.

[LGR4GM]

At the time the trade for Seguin was viewed as pretty high risk because of these concerns. It has obviously worked out pretty well for Dallas, but one example of a similar situation doesn't guarantee that a trade for Hall would work out equally well.

 

That being said, eventually the number of prospects we have should be turned into better/elite level prospects via trade. Hall would be one of those elite level players since he has the pedigree (former #1, Canada WJC top scorer and 3rd in tournament, etc.) that could translate into a true 1st line LW.

The thing to remember in Dallas is that Seguin is not their best player. Jamie Benn is. Also Seguin was criticized for his immaturity. Hall he is being criticized for his unwillingness to adapt. Hard to call without being a GM who hears all that goes on around the league but it is just something to consider.

[Samson's Flow]

Hall is a 23 year old ppg winger who already scores 25-30 goals a season. No matter what the negatives are, that is still very true.

 

I would trade away Armia, pysyk, stl 1st, ny 1st, and two mid level prospects. I don't think that would have a chance to do it but who knows with Edmonton. I just don't think we are a good trade partner and would be too costly to get.

What if we start the talks with the two things Edmonton desperately needs: Defense and Goaltending.

 

Building a package around Myers and Enroth/Neuvirth would probably interest them. Not many teams can offer a top pairing D and goaltending. I think we're one of the few good fits for a trade.

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

 

His career high is 27.

 

Look at his games played, I know it's a fair knock, but looking at his paces. There is no doubt he is a consistent 25-30 goal scorer when healthy

Edited December 16, 2014 by Johnny DangerFace

[Samson's Flow]

The thing to remember in Dallas is that Seguin is not their best player. Jamie Benn is. Also Seguin was criticized for his immaturity. Hall he is being criticized for his unwillingness to adapt. Hard to call without being a GM who hears all that goes on around the league but it is just something to consider.

Agreed that Seguin isn't their best player. But projecting forward our best player shouldn't be Hall. Reinhart, Risto/Zad, 1st rounder this year all have the potential to be better. But we are still missing that top scoring winger in the formula to cup success. Hall can be that.

 

Also the immaturity concern is mitigated for me because we have such a strong locker room/leadership culture with veterans like Gionta, Gorges and our young Girgs. Edmonton is being led by the three wonderkids line with Hall being the best of them. That's why EDM is such a train wreck IMO.

[LTS]

 

Also the immaturity concern is mitigated for me because we have such a strong locker room/leadership culture with veterans like Gionta, Gorges and our young Girgs. Edmonton is being led by the three wonderkids line with Hall being the best of them. That's why EDM is such a train wreck IMO.

 

So Hall is in a leadership role and doesn't want to adapt and you think he'll suddenly change when he's not in one? I'm not sure the logic plays out. I wouldn't trade the stable for him. Hall is a very good player but right now the Sabres have put themselves in a great position to set themselves up for awhile. They are already competitive and they should improve. Trading away 1st round picks, in a deep draft, is insane. If it's possible to pull talent like Perry and Getzlaf from this draft I would not trade those away to Edmonton for Hall.

 

I just don't see the Sabres giving away their #1 picks this year unless it's something amazing. Certainly not their #1 picks AND players for 1 player.