Swedesessed Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Two off the grid nominees: G Mika Noronen: Remember he was going to be the next great goalie? Then he was traded for a 2nd rounder I believe F Erik Rasmussen: 8th overall pick perhaps, I considered him a big disappointment in terms if production Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I will. PA, you can't say "semantics aside" and then play the semantics game. Everybody smoked. Smoking is a non-factor on whether Perreault cared enough or not. I'll bite, too. Perreault's era and this day and age are a million miles apart concerning how smoking is regarded by society. Back then, movie stars and TV stars smoked on screen, and it was cool. In fact, there were even cigarette commercials on TV into the 1970's. Back then it was okay to smoke in bars, at your desk at work, on airplanes, in grocery stores, on buses, in cars, and every place in between. Nobody who didn't smoke bitched about second hand smoke, because it would have just made the smokers blow smoke directly at them. Hell, I even smoked in my seat at a hockey game (granted this was in NC). Even pregnant women smoked. The stigma we have today for smoking simply didn't exist back then. A hockey player smoking back then was about the same as a hockey player today who eats too many chocolate bars. Sure chocolate bars aren't good for you or your conditioning, but nobody's equating how many chocolate bars a hockey player eats with how committed he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bull. People quit smoking in the 70s and 80s so they could be healthier. The trend toward many fewer people smoking didn't start overnight. It wasn't the freaking Middle Ages. Oh yeah, world-class athletes also stayed in shape year round. It was pretty much during his career that that trend happened. If it started in the 70's, it was the very beginning. Heck they didn't even realize that smoking might be bad for pregnant women until the 80's when all these children were born addicted to crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree, Connolly doesn't belong on that list. 2008-09 he led the team in points per game, the following year had he not missed nine games he could have ended up leading the team in points. Considering his concussion history I thought he was pretty damn good. Now, if we did a poll on who is/was the biggest whipping boy in Sabres history he would be #1 by a large margin. I never understood the relentless criticism for the guy. (I wish I knew why spell check doesn't work on this forum using Firefox) Connolly was what he was, it's not his fault Regier kept resigning him, and didn't bring a safe guard center on a team thin down the middle. When healthy, he was alright, but he was always put in a position where he needed to lead the team somehow, and he was just not that kind of player. Yet another example of Regier not being able to recognize players for what they were, instead of what he thought they should become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Connolly was what he was, it's not his fault Regier kept resigning him, and didn't bring a safe guard center on a team thin down the middle. When healthy, he was alright, but he was always put in a position where he needed to lead the team somehow, and he was just not that kind of player. Yet another example of Regier not being able to recognize players for what they were, instead of what he thought they should become. Between 2005-06 and 2010-11 he put up 250 points in 302 games. I don't think there was any Sabre that put up that kind of point-per-game production in that span. Problem was, he only played 302 games. You're right, he was not a leader and Darcy's inability to bring in a complimentary center put all the weight on Connolly's shoulders. Considering most (including himself) probably figured his career was over after 2003, those are some damn good numbers nonetheless. I just don't think he belongs on the list. I agree though, he wasn't the kind of player to take charge when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I think we do. They just hide it and then deny it. Same as in every day life for everybody else. Agree. Remember that pro hockey players are just people. But more than that, they're young men ages 18-35, most of them have enormous amounts of expendable income, and thy're out-of-school, so to speak, during the off-season. They're also mostly from Canada, the Northeast or Midwestern US, or Northern Europe. I can't imagine an NHL that isn't full of drunks. I'm pretty sure elements of it are the same as a beer league except that the skill and on-ice effort level is multiplied. I'm pretty sure the only thing stopping all sorts of drunken player mishaps from reaching the news are the teams' PR departments, the players' agents, the fact that teammates won't rat each other out publicly, and maybe, just maybe, the teams' code of conduct policies, if such things exist in the NHL. Edited August 21, 2014 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bull. People quit smoking in the 70s and 80s so they could be healthier. The trend toward many fewer people smoking didn't start overnight. It wasn't the freaking Middle Ages. Oh yeah, world-class athletes also stayed in shape year round. Hockey players didn't. A majority of people with their names on the cup have been smokers. It probably turned in late 80s. And a lot smoked to keep weight off. Just a different era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bull. People quit smoking in the 70s and 80s so they could be healthier. The trend toward many fewer people smoking didn't start overnight. It wasn't the freaking Middle Ages. Oh yeah, world-class athletes also stayed in shape year round. If "deny deny deny" is going to be your tactic then I don't even know why you're here. Anyone who doubts what these guys did to themselves back in Perreault's day needs to read this book: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bull. People quit smoking in the 70s and 80s so they could be healthier. The trend toward many fewer people smoking didn't start overnight. It wasn't the freaking Middle Ages. Oh yeah, world-class athletes also stayed in shape year round. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/index.htm?mobile=nocontent The idea that there was some huge drop in adult smokers in the 70s is nothing short of mythical. And that data doesn't even adjust for generational replacement versus the reduction due to current smokers quitting, nor does it account for the culture of athletes at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 If "deny deny deny" is going to be your tactic then I don't even know why you're here. Anyone who doubts what these guys did to themselves back in Perreault's day needs to read this book: Fine. Everyone smoked. You need to kick back and blaze out a doobie (do I have the lingo right?). http://www.cdc.gov/t...obile=nocontent The idea that there was some huge drop in adult smokers in the 70s is nothing short of mythical. And that data doesn't even adjust for generational replacement versus the reduction due to current smokers quitting, nor does it account for the culture of athletes at the time. Looks to me like a solid downward trend. I never said there was a huge drop. But thanks for backing up my point with a chart. You sure can't count on carp anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Fine. Everyone smoked. You need to kick back and blaze out a doobie (do I have the lingo right?). Looks to me like a solid downward trend. I never said there was a huge drop. But thanks for backing up my point with a chart. You sure can't count on carp anymore. We're not even talking about weed. That would just be the tip of the iceberg. Let me know when it comes out that Gilbert was doing cocaine. Because if he wasn't I bet you someone else on the team probably was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Fine. Everyone smoked. You need to kick back and blaze out a doobie (do I have the lingo right?). Looks to me like a solid downward trend. I never said there was a huge drop. But thanks for backing up my point with a chart. You sure can't count on carp anymore. It took nearly 50 years for the percentage of adults smoking to be cut in half. We're talking around a half percentage point drop annually, without considering the aforementioned caveats. The only place this data supports your point is in your fantasy land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Fine. Everyone smoked. You need to kick back and blaze out a doobie (do I have the lingo right?). Squirrel!! Oh, wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Between 2005-06 and 2010-11 he put up 250 points in 302 games. I don't think there was any Sabre that put up that kind of point-per-game production in that span. Problem was, he only played 302 games. You're right, he was not a leader and Darcy's inability to bring in a complimentary center put all the weight on Connolly's shoulders. Considering most (including himself) probably figured his career was over after 2003, those are some damn good numbers nonetheless. I just don't think he belongs on the list. I agree though, he wasn't the kind of player to take charge when needed. I agree, he wasn't a disappointment, cause who really expected more from him than he delivered? Darcy did, but who else? Kid had some tough breaks, and probably lacked a little grit and personal discipline here and there, but I could name at least 20 players I was more disappointed in than Connolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Norm Lacombe Shawn Anderson Jiri Novotny Joey Juneau Chris Gratton Erik Rasmussen Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre MIchal Grosek Drew Stafford Ville Leino Jocelyn Thibault Ales Kotalik Derek Roy Maxim Afinogenov Steve Bernier Christian Ruuttu Mikael Anderson Kevin Haller Taylor Pyatt Mika Noronen Dmitri Kalinin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 It took nearly 50 years for the percentage of adults smoking to be cut in half. We're talking around a half percentage point drop annually, without considering the aforementioned caveats. The only place this data supports your point is in your fantasy land. I said people quit smoking in the 70s and 80s. The chart shows smoking dropped from about 38% of the population to about 28% of the population between 1970 and 1990. People quit smoking. Perreault could have been one of them. What's up doc? Mike Wilson. He was so highly thought of that he was one of a handful of then-current Sabres (Patty and Brad May as well) on the ice for the closing ceremonies at the Aud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Joey Juneau Haha what did you expect from him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) While I wouldn't put him at the top, I do agree that he could have been even better. The feeling from the outside was that he just didn't want to be the best when he could have been. My feeling is Perreault really wasn't really a leader but as a performer, he never disappointed. Sabres mgmt. stopped short several times of acquiring the 2-3 pieces to put them over the top and Perreault got very discouraged here. I think he def. wanted to be traded to the Habs but the Sabres never honored that so he quit almost mid-season while still scoring almost a point a game.. My biggest disappointment vote goes to Scotty Bowman, who won everywhere else but here. his Sabres regime might have been tainted by the owner's unwillingness to spend. Edited August 22, 2014 by 716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Grant Fuhr loved himself some cocaine http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/01/sports/hockey-fuhr-used-cocaine-paper-says.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Derek Roy I veto this selection!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Mike Peca, and by a wide margin. He was supposed to be a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 My biggest disappointment vote goes to Scotty Bowman, who won everywhere else but here. his Sabres regime might have been tainted by the owner's unwillingness to spend. If we are going to take this beyond players and name coaches/front office, I don't think there is any bigger disappointment than John Rigas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Drew Stafford...now there's a name to add to the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 So did everyone else. I doubt it. They did. I was going to jump in on this, but I see it resolved itself. I was going to add: I was in the Lafayette Tap Room in the winter of '92-93. So too was Alexander the Great -- this being the year of his 76 goals. That guy smoked half a pack of unfiltered camels in two hours or so. That's to say nothing of the vodka he was swilling. i voted other. My vote was for Hasek. I base this on the following. The single greatest hockey player I have ever watched play was number 39. Older people talk about how amazing gilbert was and him being the greatest player. To me this is nonsense. The greatest was Hasek. He alone got the sabres points in the standings, he alone won playoff games and playoff series. he was voted the best in the league not only at his position but overall twice. Now that I have built him up it is time to tear him down. This is a player that had quit on his team multiple times and he was not just any player when he did this. He was the player the whole team was built around. If the locker room rumors are to be trusted he was not just one of the players dividing the team and front office he was one of the central players. On top of that he leveraged the team to trade him so far below market value that it was laughable how little they got in return and helped sent the team into a rebuld without much in the way of a return. This is the greatest sabre to wear the uniform, one of the best players ever, and arguably the greatest goalie ever. What did that get the sabres? 1 game six in the finals within 8 years. Looking back I would never of thought Hasek would only get us one shot at a cup This is the best of the bunch. I don't know that I agree with it, but, to me, it takes the right starting point. You can only be deeply disappointed in someone if you had high expectations of him/her. Hasek was the best of times and the worst of times -- I understand the feeling that he's the most disappointing player in franchise history. I can't get there myself, but I understand it. The stuff about Connolly and Leino makes no sense to me. Before Schaefer saw Connolly in the trolley tracks, Connolly was putting together a really, really nice run together -- remember how he stick handled through an entire Philly team and roofed that goal? I thought the roof of the arena might come off. Then he got injured, mis-diagnosed, yadda yadda. As for Leino, the guy did well during the Euro tour and then immediately started sucking arse. He stunk. That doesn't make him a disappointment. Mike Wilson. He was so highly thought of that he was one of a handful of then-current Sabres (Patty and Brad May as well) on the ice for the closing ceremonies at the Aud. I was going to offer him up as well. Great call on him being on the ice to shut down the Aud. Grant Fuhr loved himself some cocaine As did #18. Reportedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Mike Peca, and by a wide margin. He was supposed to be a leader. He was a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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