The tank is 1/2 over...

[inkman]

That's what I mean, say we do get first, then I don't think we're tanking. From that point on the moves we make are to WIN hockey games. In 3 years the rebuild won't be over, we will still be losing, but we wont be tanking.

Well said

[TrueBlueGED]

Their is no single route to winning a cup. It certainly doesn't require losing on purpose year after year. It does require a GM know knows what he is going and can string together several successful personnel moves.

 

The Cup Champion Kings only have one top-5 pick on the roster that they drafted (Doughty #2 in 2008).

 

I feel like I have to say this every time the Kings are brought up: they traded a #3 overall and #5 overall to secure the final pieces to their championship puzzle. Obviously I can't say it would be impossible to make the trade without them, but we also can't just pretend top-5 drafted players weren't the centerpieces of those crucial trades.

[HopefulFuture]

With TM's recent moves I now firmly believe getting one of McDavid or Eichel is out the window. Sabres finish with a 4th to 7th OA draft selection slot from the 15 draft. I also believe the Islanders will be better and may be a bubble playoff team given the EC's weak competition. St. Louis offers us a pick between 22 to 30th OA.

 

In essence, the tank will go strong for another 2 full seasons, drafting in the 4th to 10th slot in that 16 draft IMHO.

[JJFIVEOH]

You know what would piss me off more than not finishing last? FInishing last and not picking first. Kind of like this year.

Their is no single route to winning a cup. It certainly doesn't require losing on purpose year after year. It does require a GM know knows what he is going and can string together several successful personnel moves.

 

The Cup Champion Kings only have one top-5 pick on the roster that they drafted (Doughty #2 in 2008).

 

Exactly. #1 overall picks haven't necessarily brought tremendous success. Kane and Crosby...... the only two I consider game changers and only one team in the last fourteen years has been an annual contender for a Cup. No, I don't consider Pittsburgh in there.

 

I've said this before, the Sabres are going to find it much tougher to lose games this year than they think. It's easy to tank and finish dead last when you spend all year trading away your team for draft picks. But when you have to fill those spots during the offseason to reach the floor it's not as easy to lose.

 

I know some will say that the Sabres finished so far out last year that even if they won seven more games they still would have finished last...... so they can be better and still finish dead last. Well, you also need to throw in Darcy and Rolston getting fired. That caused some distractions. Then you need to throw in the goaltending fiasco at the end of the year when they were down to the 6th stringer. Add up Rolston's games and the remaining games after Enroth/Neuvirth got hurt and you have a 6-25-3 record. Get rid of all that and the Sabres would have won seven more games last year. Now throw in a revamped roster.................. it's not going to be that easy to suck.

[Claude_Verret]

I'll go one step further and say I'm for tanking in every season where the cup isn't a realistic possibility, especially this year when the playoffs aren't even a realistic possibility. I've been a Sabres fan for almost 40 years, at this point I have zero use for anything but a legit cup contending team. Frankly I'm surprised that anyone would advocate for yet another run to nowhere and another Stafford/Zagrapan/Persson/Kassian-like pick in a draft year that has BOTH the next potential Crosby and Kane. Now that would be a wasted season.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

2012: 2 first rounders (Grigorenko, Girgensons) + 1 second rounder (McCabe) + Ullmark in 6th round

2013: 2 first rounders (Ristolainen, Zadorov) + 4 second rounders (Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Carrier (StL)) + Baptiste + Fasching

2014: 1 first rounder (Reinhart) + 3 second rounders (Lemieux, Cornel, Karabacek)

2015: 3 first rounders, 3 seconds

 

With 19 first and second round picks over a 4 year span, this team should be fine with or without McDavid/Eichel. If not, fire every single scout.

That is amazing. Most of those prospects should be ready for the big time any day now...

[LabattBlue]

2012: 2 first rounders (Grigorenko, Girgensons) + 1 second rounder (McCabe) + Ullmark in 6th round

2013: 2 first rounders (Ristolainen, Zadorov) + 4 second rounders (Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Carrier (StL)) + Baptiste + Fasching

2014: 1 first rounder (Reinhart) + 3 second rounders (Lemieux, Cornel, Karabacek)

2015: 3 first rounders, 3 seconds

 

With 19 first and second round picks over a 4 year span, this team should be fine with or without McDavid/Eichel. If not, fire every single scout.

I agree that the stable of prospects "should" be great(keep in mind that if they hit on 40-50% of the players you listed, they will be lucky), but what would you rather have...a chance at a "superstar" as a reward for another year of sucking or a below average team finishing 5-10 spots from the bottom?

[K-9]

I'm still dreaming of a last place finish followed by the Islanders winning the lottery....then we can have McDavid - Reinhart - Eichel as our top line for the next 15 years. :wub:

 

I just felt it move.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[LGR4GM]

2012: 2 first rounders (Grigorenko, Girgensons) + 1 second rounder (McCabe) + Ullmark in 6th round

2013: 2 first rounders (Ristolainen, Zadorov) + 4 second rounders (Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Carrier (StL)) + Baptiste + Fasching

2014: 1 first rounder (Reinhart) + 3 second rounders (Lemieux, Cornel, Karabacek)

2015: 3 first rounders, 3 seconds

 

With 19 first and second round picks over a 4 year span, this team should be fine with or without McDavid/Eichel. If not, fire every single scout.

+1, Glad I didn't have to write this up.

 

Look if 50% of those guys hit and that is probable, then we wouldn't have to have McDavid or Eichel. Do you know why the Oilers still stink? Why the Pens haven't won another cup? Why LA and Chicago have won multiple cups? Being able to find quality players late in the first round or in the 2nd round and beyond. It is something Tim Murray talks about all the time. Do I want Jack Eichel? Absolutely. That being said we are picking bottom 5 and we have 2 other first round picks in what is considered a very deep draft. If Murray can get 2 out of those 3 picks to hit you just filled out your second line and maybe 1 on your first line if all goes well.

[Guest Sloth]

 

I understand the number of high round picks the Sabres have between 2012-2015, but come on. Having McDavid or Eichel a part of that puts the icing on the cake. Buffalo would be a powerhouse w/ an elite player leading the way. Last season was tough to sit through, but it'll be a partial waste if the Sabres don't land a top two pick. Buffalo will be good if they if the don't get a hold of McDavid or Eichel, but they'll be great if they do. One more cellar dweller season will be worth it.

 

LGR4GM, quote by Girgensons on your post sums its.

 

“Sometimes,” said Zemgus Girgensons, “you have to pass on the good things to achieve the greater things.”

[Doohickie]

I don't know.... I'm rooting for the team to win. If they do and don't get the top pick(s), I'm okay, as long as they get better year-on-year.

[Jsixspd]

In 02-03 the Blackhawks won 30 games, in 03-04 they won 20, in 05-06 they won 26, and in 06-07 they won 31. In 07-08 the captaincy was vacant and Toews was named captain a year later with Duncan Keith as an alternate. That's what tanking got them. They hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years and they weren't even close in that time.

 

I picked 2007 as a starting point for the Blackhawks when the new management took over, and Rocky Wirtz overturned his father's applecart and started the actual rebuilding progress, by hiring a new president and coach within a year's time or so. So I was equating 2006-07 with our 2012-13 season, and 2007-08 as our 2013-14 season. They had 5 tank years of not making the playoffs compared to our 3 so far. But picks are only as good as the management doing the picking. The Hawks didn't start to make effective drafts and trades (other than Toews) until Rocky Wirtz took over after his father passed, and within a year of that is when Joe Quenville was brought on board too, before the start of the 08-09 season.

 

With the changes to the team so far, I just can't see them staying below 60 points for 2014-15. I think they'll be better than that, so I'm guessing we'll see progress starting this season with a 70-80 point season, and hopefully the team continuing to improve moving forward.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Jsixspd

[Crusader1969]

2012: 2 first rounders (Grigorenko, Girgensons) + 1 second rounder (McCabe) + Ullmark in 6th round

2013: 2 first rounders (Ristolainen, Zadorov) + 4 second rounders (Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Carrier (StL)) + Baptiste + Fasching

2014: 1 first rounder (Reinhart) + 3 second rounders (Lemieux, Cornel, Karabacek)

2015: 3 first rounders, 3 seconds

 

With 19 first and second round picks over a 4 year span, this team should be fine with or without McDavid/Eichel. If not, fire every single scout.

 

They might be -FINE but we are looking for Dominating. I still think that requires 1 of these players at the very least.

 

I feel like I have to say this every time the Kings are brought up: they traded a #3 overall and #5 overall to secure the final pieces to their championship puzzle. Obviously I can't say it would be impossible to make the trade without them, but we also can't just pretend top-5 drafted players weren't the centerpieces of those crucial trades.

 

THANK YOU!!!! absolutely right.

[Crusader1969]

I'll go one step further and say I'm for tanking in every season where the cup isn't a realistic possibility, especially this year when the playoffs aren't even a realistic possibility. I've been a Sabres fan for almost 40 years, at this point I have zero use for anything but a legit cup contending team. Frankly I'm surprised that anyone would advocate for yet another run to nowhere and another Stafford/Zagrapan/Persson/Kassian-like pick in a draft year that has BOTH the next potential Crosby and Kane. Now that would be a wasted season.

Music to my ears.. I think thats a great perspective from another fan of this team for 40 years. I don't want playoff contender I want Cup favorite. That requires Game changers like McDavid and/or Eichel.

[Brawndo]

These are the point totals for the teams that finished in 30th, 27th and 24th over the past 3 seasons when 82 games where played. Before the Lottery these equal the First, Fourth and Seventh Draft Positions

 

30th 27th 24th

2013-14: 52 77 83

 

2011-12: 65 79 81

 

2010-11 62 73 81

 

Realistically how many more wins can we expect this season?

 

Considering a 17gm stretch in Dec and Jan where Miller had a .938 Save Percentage and the Sabres went 6-5-6 giving them 18 points. Enroth was in net for one of the losses and Miller was in net for the six games they got a loser point.

 

Plus Ernhoff had the highest Corsi Rel on the team and the other D Men had their highest when paired with him.

 

Will the Sabres be better this season, absolutely. But I cannot see them winning enough games next year to escape drafting in top five.

[inkman]

Look if 50% of those guys hit and that is probable...

Maybe my reading comprehension is off today but I don't think that % falls in line with NHL draft data. It also depends on your definition of hit. Will at least 50% play in the NHL, probably. Will they be Luke Adam, M-A Gragnani, Corey Tropp, mike Weber, Chris Thorburn, Doug Janik, or TJ Brennan. Chances are good and I only included the ones that actually played in the NHL. In five years if 1/3 of those players are in the NHL and are top 6 forwards or top 4 Dmen, I'll be shocked.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Our goaltending should help us tank even better……..No way enroth can play 70 games……..And if we trade him, lol…….we will suck even worse

[LGR4GM]

Maybe my reading comprehension is off today but I don't think that % falls in line with NHL draft data. It also depends on your definition of hit. Will at least 50% play in the NHL, probably. Will they be Luke Adam, M-A Gragnani, Corey Tropp, mike Weber, Chris Thorburn, Doug Janik, or TJ Brennan. Chances are good and I only included the ones that actually played in the NHL. In five years if 1/3 of those players are in the NHL and are top 6 forwards or top 4 Dmen, I'll be shocked.

Hit meaning play at least 50nhl games. If 1/3 become TOP 6 and TOP 4 guys (BTW I think the Defense should easily make that happen) then we are doing really great. 1/3 of those picks would 6 guys... so that is your full top lines. Realistically also possible. Baptiste, Possler (not on list) Compher, and Lemieux have excellent chances at achieving that. Toss in Reinhart, Zemgus and surprise forward and that isn't a stretch at all. Really depends on Kevin Devine and going forward Tim Murray.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'll go one step further and say I'm for tanking in every season where the cup isn't a realistic possibility, especially this year when the playoffs aren't even a realistic possibility. I've been a Sabres fan for almost 40 years, at this point I have zero use for anything but a legit cup contending team. Frankly I'm surprised that anyone would advocate for yet another run to nowhere and another Stafford/Zagrapan/Persson/Kassian-like pick in a draft year that has BOTH the next potential Crosby and Kane. Now that would be a wasted season.

 

I have far less time put in than you, and this is precisely how I feel. And I'm not sure how to feel that I got to this point so quickly :lol:

[Iron Crotch]

They might be -FINE but we are looking for Dominating. I still think that requires 1 of these players at the very least.

 

 

No team dominates with one player or one line or one defense pairing. They dominate with many strong players across positions. This is what the Sabres are set up to do with the depth of picks/prospects that they have.

 

There is an incredible amount of noise in the draft and there is no way to know a priori that the best player in this coming draft when all is said and done will be McDavid/Eichel. While it may appear that way, a lot can happen... The draft is nothing more than gambling on futures.

 

If through the course of normal events we end up dead last then fine. But, it shouldn't be the strategy going into the season.

[JJFIVEOH]

No team dominates with one player or one line or one defense pairing. They dominate with many strong players across positions. This is what the Sabres are set up to do with the depth of picks/prospects that they have.

 

There is an incredible amount of noise in the draft and there is no way to know a priori that the best player in this coming draft when all is said and done will be McDavid/Eichel. While it may appear that way, a lot can happen... The draft is nothing more than gambling on futures.

 

If through the course of normal events we end up dead last then fine. But, it shouldn't be the strategy going into the season.

 

I really like your posts in this thread.

 

I don't like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'd almost rather have multiple 1st round picks in 2015 rather than the one 1st overall. I'd rather not have all the hype that goes along with McDavid either.

[Iron Crotch]

I really like your posts in this thread.

 

I don't like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'd almost rather have multiple 1st round picks in 2015 rather than the one 1st overall. I'd rather not have all the hype that goes along with McDavid either.

 

I just think that karma will have a way of getting back at us if we try to game the system.

 

...or maybe I've watched the movie Major League a few too many times. ;)

[LastPommerFan]

McDavid (our pick) AND Eichel (Isles' pick)

 

That way all our eggs aren't in one basket.

[TrueBlueGED]

I really like your posts in this thread.

 

I don't like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'd almost rather have multiple 1st round picks in 2015 rather than the one 1st overall. I'd rather not have all the hype that goes along with McDavid either.

 

I can certainly understand (despite my disagreement) not wanting to tank, and certainly get not wanting to rely on random top-5 pick to carry us to the promised. But to say you'd rather have multiple firsts than a generational talent? That's where you lose me.

[JJFIVEOH]

I just think that karma will have a way of getting back at us if we try to game the system.

 

...or maybe I've watched the movie Major League a few too many times. ;)

 

Right, I've complained about teams that abuse the system, I'm certainly not going to be a hypocrite and support the Sabres doing it.