inkman Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 He actually did ask what Enroth's value is right now...lol. On a serious note...why is everyone talking about Hackett and Ullmark, and not Makarov...as far as I'm concerned, he is our best prospect as far as goaltending goes...is he not? I know you aren't as balls deep in this forum as some of us but everything I've read here is completely slanted towards Ullmark and Makarov being the better prospects. I think this has a lot to do with posters being less familiar with them and a lot of pimping from our Eurocentric posters (you know who you are). Without knowing those 2 too well, I'd say none of the guys in the system are the heir apparent for the Sabres net minding situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I know you aren't as balls deep in this forum as some of us but everything I've read here is completely slanted towards Ullmark and Makarov being the better prospects. I think this has a lot to do with posters being less familiar with them and a lot of pimping from our Eurocentric posters (you know who you are). Without knowing those 2 too well, I'd say none of the guys in the system are the heir apparent for the Sabres net minding situation. I think we should just clone Dom, and tank for the next 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 On a serious note...why is everyone talking about Hackett and Ullmark, and not Makarov...as far as I'm concerned, he is our best prospect as far as goaltending goes...is he not? Hackett is the popular choice because he was packaged in the Jason Pominville deal and has NHL experience, so it makes sense why people would be high on him. However, unless you're just a huge fan of Makarov or Saskatoon, you'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who values him higher then Ullmark. Ullmark is playing in a real mens professional league. A league that has developed many NHL goalies. Makarov plays in the ECHL. Ullmark is also arguably currently the best goalie in the Swedish league. I like both goalies, but no way, based on the knowledge we know today, i'd think Makarov will be a better goalie in 5 years then Ullmark. One guy people always are skipping past, and i don't know why is Nathan Lieuwen. I've always been high on him and he's always played great whereever he's played. Remember him owning the prospects tournament few seasons ago? He just stole the #1 job from Matt Hackett in Rochester as well. If it wasn't for his horrific car accident where he suffered many injuries, he would be a top 2 round draft pick. WHL Champ, WHL Playoff MVP, Ivan Hlinka gold medal. The dude is a winner and still only 22 years old. I really think he has a very bright future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Yes, it's all visual up to this point. We know he has his weaknesses, so does Miller. But he also has his strengths. As long as Enroth continues to put up a comparable save percentage I have no reason to doubt he can replace Miller. Miller's hot streak is over now, he's coming back down to Earth. This is my issue with you. Here is the spectrum of reasonable-ness Enroth can't be an nhl caliber goalie Enroth Can't be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth may or may not be able to become a good nhl starting goalie. Enroth will be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth can come in and replace a franchise goalie and there is no reason to think otherwise. Sorry, but you are on an extreme end of the spectrum, and its just not reasonable. Do you also think eddie lack can simply replace luongo, they have simliar save percentages. Do you think gustavsson can replace jimmy howard? Greiss in phoenix? Raanta in Chicago. Jones in LA. Hutton in nashville. I'm not sure if you realize this, but backup goalies tend to put up pretty good stats because they get long stretches of breaks, and coaches have a strategy of when to play their backup goalie where it will cost them less. Im not saying enroth cant be better than miller, but no one knows. Being a starting goalie is very different than being a backup goalie. And for the record im in the camp that says you don't know what you have until you see it. Enroth has been great as a backup and I think he has potential to be a grat starting goalie. But it won't be easy to replace miller Edited January 25, 2014 by Numark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Rhea Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 This is my issue with you. Here is the spectrum of reasonable-ness Enroth can't be an nhl caliber goalie Enroth Can't be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth may or may not be able to become a good nhl starting goalie. Enroth will be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth can come in and replace a franchise goalie and there is no reason to think otherwise. Sorry, but you are on an extreme end of the spectrum, and its just not reasonable. Do you also think eddie lack can simply replace luongo, they have simliar save percentages. Do you think gustavsson can replace jimmy howard? Greiss in phoenix? Raanta in Chicago. Jones in LA. Hutton in nashville. I'm not sure if you realize this, but backup goalies tend to put up pretty good stats because they get long stretches of breaks, and coaches have a strategy of when to play their backup goalie where it will cost them less. Im not saying enroth cant be better than miller, but no one knows. Being a starting goalie is very different than being a backup goalie. And for the record im in the camp that says you don't know what you have until you see it. Enroth has been great as a backup and I think he has potential to be a grat starting goalie. But it won't be easy to replace miller I don't think it is going to be as difficult as you think. Don't confuse consistency with being great. In RM case he has been consistently average and it is not difficult to replace average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I don't think it is going to be as difficult as you think. Don't confuse consistency with being great. In RM case he has been consistently average and it is not difficult to replace average. Even if you believe that (no arguing with those points if you seriously believe that), it actually is hard to find a goaltender who is consistently at least average.......its why there are a lot of teams that have goalie issues....Go make a list of goalies over the past 5 years who occasionally get into the top 10 of stats but never drop below average. Lol, grizzly adams did have a beard. Edited January 26, 2014 by Numark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 This is my issue with you. Here is the spectrum of reasonable-ness Enroth can't be an nhl caliber goalie Enroth Can't be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth may or may not be able to become a good nhl starting goalie. Enroth will be a good starting NHL goalie Enroth can come in and replace a franchise goalie and there is no reason to think otherwise. Sorry, but you are on an extreme end of the spectrum, and its just not reasonable. Do you also think eddie lack can simply replace luongo, they have simliar save percentages. Do you think gustavsson can replace jimmy howard? Greiss in phoenix? Raanta in Chicago. Jones in LA. Hutton in nashville. I'm not sure if you realize this, but backup goalies tend to put up pretty good stats because they get long stretches of breaks, and coaches have a strategy of when to play their backup goalie where it will cost them less. Im not saying enroth cant be better than miller, but no one knows. Being a starting goalie is very different than being a backup goalie. And for the record im in the camp that says you don't know what you have until you see it. Enroth has been great as a backup and I think he has potential to be a grat starting goalie. But it won't be easy to replace miller This is just a darn good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Rhea Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Even if you believe that (no arguing with those points if you seriously believe that), it actually is hard to find a goaltender who is consistently at least average.......its why there are a lot of teams that have goalie issues....Go make a list of goalies over the past 5 years who occasionally get into the top 10 of stats but never drop below average. Lol, grizzly adams did have a beard. That is exactly what I mean. There is only a few goalies who are upper tier, whereas most are more average than not. Numbers would have it as RM is more average than not, therefor not overly difficult to replace. Thanks for making my point. Edited January 26, 2014 by BocceBall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) That is exactly what I mean. There is only a few goalies who are upper tier, whereas most are more average than not. Numbers would have it as RM is more average than not, therefor not overly difficult to replace. Thanks for making my point. I think you should re-read my post. Thats not what i said Edited January 26, 2014 by Numark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Anyone watch last night? THAT's what Miller can do. And sorry, but I don't think Enroth can. I'd love to see Enroth as a No. 1, maybe in Filly or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Anyone watch last night? THAT's what Miller can do. And sorry, but I don't think Enroth can. I'd love to see Enroth as a No. 1, maybe in Filly or something. Nah, he'll be easily replaced. I think you could easily train a chimp to tend goal. Edited January 26, 2014 by Kristian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I think we should just clone Dom, and tank for the next 30 years. Did you miss the press release where Pegula purchased the blueprints to the Janus Project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I don't think it matters one way or the other if Enroth "can" be a #1 goalie. I think he's going to be forced into it once Miller is traded. At least for the remainder of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I don't think it matters one way or the other if Enroth "can" be a #1 goalie. I think he's going to be forced into it once Miller is traded. At least for the remainder of the season. Which I don't think anyone here will mind but there sure as hell better be a plan for next season (or the following one for team rail gun fans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 The next Miller? I want the next Crosby. Then you can get by with the next Fleury. Can we please break the small-market mindset of building from the goal out, keeping the puck out of the net, battening down the hatches and trying to get by on 2.5 goals a game? Red lights, please. Entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 The next Miller? I want the next Crosby. Then you can get by with the next Fleury. Can we please break the small-market mindset of building from the goal out, keeping the puck out of the net, battening down the hatches and trying to get by on 2.5 goals a game? Red lights, please. Entertainment. 1. Why not both? 2. Why is the plan used by NYR, Montreal, and Vancouver a "small-market mindset"? Would you rather the "big-market mindset" of Toronto or Filly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The next Miller? I want the next Crosby. Then you can get by with the next Fleury. Can we please break the small-market mindset of building from the goal out, keeping the puck out of the net, battening down the hatches and trying to get by on 2.5 goals a game? Red lights, please. Entertainment. I agree wholeheartedly but as we saw last night, you can't have a block of Swiss cheese as your keeper either. Edited January 26, 2014 by inkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I agree wholeheartedly but as we saw last night, you can't have a block of Swiss cheese as your keeper either. What about a Vezina-winning block of Swiss cheese who was rejected by a team that hasn't had good goaltending in thirty years? Edited January 26, 2014 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 What about a Vezina-winning block of Swiss cheese who was rejected by a team that hasn't had good goaltending in thirty years? I've seen Miller have some bad nights but they never looked like Bobrovski's night. He couldn't stop a beach ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 The next Miller? I want the next Crosby. Then you can get by with the next Fleury. Can we please break the small-market mindset of building from the goal out, keeping the puck out of the net, battening down the hatches and trying to get by on 2.5 goals a game? Red lights, please. Entertainment. Yes, Pittsburgh won a cup with an average goaltender. How many more might they have won with a very good to great goaltender? At the very least they'd have gotten out of the first round against Philly two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I've seen Miller have some bad nights but they never looked like Bobrovski's night. He couldn't stop a beach ball. Yep. Just riffing on the big-market Filly plan of never having any goaltending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yep. Just riffing on the big-market Filly plan of never having any goaltending. But finding an average goaltender is easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 How many Cups have the Rangers won in the last 8 years? Vancouver? Anyone watch last night? THAT's what Miller can do. And sorry, but I don't think Enroth can. I'd love to see Enroth as a No. 1, maybe in Filly or something. 'Can' is the key word. After the Olympics, he 'won't'. If you don't agree with that, we can just stick the last three years and go with he 'hasn't'. We can't some people understand this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 How many Cups have the Rangers won in the last 8 years? Vancouver? 'Can' is the key word. After the Olympics, he 'won't'. If you don't agree with that, we can just stick the last three years and go with he 'hasn't'. We can't some people understand this? Are you trying to argue that Miller is the only player that determines the Sabres success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Which I don't think anyone here will mind but there sure as hell better be a plan for next season (or the following one for team rail gun fans). I believe the plan is to go with Enroth/Hackett next season as well, or maybe one of the mid level UFA netminders coming available for a couple year contract. I have seen Buffalo churn out some really good net minders, unfortunately attempting to build from the net out hasn't proven successful to date. A couple of times we were close, but that was because of the forward ranks, outside of the Cup run with Dom and I don't see us getting another Dom anytime soon. So I personally would like to see the team address the goalie comes first culture that's been built up here in Buffalo over the years and try that different approach of addressing the forward ranks for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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